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11/09/2016 07:24:23 AM · #76 |
Originally posted by Mike:
photography is a way you let others how you see the world, if its edited or not, so be it.
the big push to get more lax editing rules is because those of us that liked or needed to do more editing to share our images were restricted from doing so, while the minimal lovers always had the ability to share |
I understand that many here see dpchallenge as a means of self-expression, a way to share their vision, and that it isn't about competition for them.
That's fine. I can understand that.
But for many of us, myself included, it is exactly about the competition.
I personally couldn't care less how you see the world. I don't come here to consume your personal artistic vision; it does nothing for me. If I happen to see an interesting photo while I'm here, and can learn something from it, then all the better - but that's not why I come here. I come here to improve my skills, and I do that by being pushed, being challenged, being shown that someone else can do something better than I can.
Competition shows me both that there's scope for improvement, and the direction in which to improve. I come here to enter a challenge against you. I want to enter a contest, to shoot to a specific (and challenging) brief, knowing that you - and every other photographer here - has started with approximately equal opportunities to me in taking their photo for that brief, equipped with similar equipment and software and bound by the same restrictions. That in a competition against me, their advantage or disadvantage is limited only by their relative talent, skill, experience and imagination.
And I want to beat you, knowing that when I've done so, it wasn't because I had better equipment, or better software, or - most importantly - because I "chose" to enter a heavily edited photo while you "chose" to restrict yourself to minimal editing. Because then, when I fail to win, I will actually learn something. I will improve. That is not the case if I spend a day working on the perfect minimal photograph, only to be "beaten" by something I could myself do in photoshop in half an hour - because I'm not here to improve my photoshopping, I'm here to improve my photography. And the limited rulesets, combined with targeted challenges and helpful critique are my vehicle to doing that, and the reason I've kept paying my subscription all these years - even when I've been absent for several at a time.
Without that competition, and without that competition having both a point and an equal footing, this site is worthless to me. That's why I'm uninterested in free studies. It's why I'm mostly uninterested in extended editing challenges. It's why I've been increasingly frustrated by the dilution of enforcement of the "standard" rules recently. And it's why I'm especially uninterested in the self-aggrandising droning of those who try to tell us, as you put it, "F***-you", when we have no interest in participating in contests which are just your vehicle to "let others see how you see the world". Take your precious artistic vision - and your "digital art" - to somewhere like deviantart where they want that kind of thing, and leave dpchallenge.com to those who want an actual digital photography challenge.
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11/09/2016 07:58:25 AM · #77 |
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11/09/2016 08:45:44 AM · #78 |
Originally posted by riot:
Originally posted by Mike:
photography is a way you let others how you see the world, if its edited or not, so be it.
the big push to get more lax editing rules is because those of us that liked or needed to do more editing to share our images were restricted from doing so, while the minimal lovers always had the ability to share |
I understand that many here see dpchallenge as a means of self-expression, a way to share their vision, and that it isn't about competition for them.
That's fine. I can understand that.
But for many of us, myself included, it is exactly about the competition.
I personally couldn't care less how you see the world. I don't come here to consume your personal artistic vision; it does nothing for me. If I happen to see an interesting photo while I'm here, and can learn something from it, then all the better - but that's not why I come here. I come here to improve my skills, and I do that by being pushed, being challenged, being shown that someone else can do something better than I can.
Competition shows me both that there's scope for improvement, and the direction in which to improve. I come here to enter a challenge against you. I want to enter a contest, to shoot to a specific (and challenging) brief, knowing that you - and every other photographer here - has started with approximately equal opportunities to me in taking their photo for that brief, equipped with similar equipment and software and bound by the same restrictions. That in a competition against me, their advantage or disadvantage is limited only by their relative talent, skill, experience and imagination.
And I want to beat you, knowing that when I've done so, it wasn't because I had better equipment, or better software, or - most importantly - because I "chose" to enter a heavily edited photo while you "chose" to restrict yourself to minimal editing. Because then, when I fail to win, I will actually learn something. I will improve. That is not the case if I spend a day working on the perfect minimal photograph, only to be "beaten" by something I could myself do in photoshop in half an hour - because I'm not here to improve my photoshopping, I'm here to improve my photography. And the limited rulesets, combined with targeted challenges and helpful critique are my vehicle to doing that, and the reason I've kept paying my subscription all these years - even when I've been absent for several at a time.
Without that competition, and without that competition having both a point and an equal footing, this site is worthless to me. That's why I'm uninterested in free studies. It's why I'm mostly uninterested in extended editing challenges. It's why I've been increasingly frustrated by the dilution of enforcement of the "standard" rules recently. And it's why I'm especially uninterested in the self-aggrandising droning of those who try to tell us, as you put it, "F***-you", when we have no interest in participating in contests which are just your vehicle to "let others see how you see the world". Take your precious artistic vision - and your "digital art" - to somewhere like deviantart where they want that kind of thing, and leave dpchallenge.com to those who want an actual digital photography challenge. |
my point out F--k you is that im tired of every time the rulesets come up is that these whining runts like glad come crawl out of their little cockroach hole and say its not photography... its not photography! if you want competition fine, i get it, make that argument but don't try to disparage editing as diminishing what a photograph is. that has always been my argument, this fake backlash against editing.
fwiw, this place needs to learn better editing precisely for the reason you suggested in in the other thread. people rely on it. kudos for scoring low for shitty processed images that try to get higher scores with gimmicks, i do the same.
we also need stop with the "learning" angle. we all learn differently, some from losing challenges, some from trying something new, etc.
Message edited by author 2016-11-09 08:47:36. |
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11/09/2016 08:57:53 AM · #79 |
Originally posted by Mike:
my point out F--k you is that im tired of every time the rulesets come up is that these whining runts like glad come crawl out of their little cockroach hole and say its not photography... its not photography! if you want competition fine, i get it, make that argument but don't try to disparage editing as diminishing what a photograph is. that has always been my argument, this fake backlash against editing.
fwiw, this place needs to learn better editing precisely for the reason you suggested in in the other thread. people rely on it. kudos for scoring low for shitty processed images that try to get higher scores with gimmicks, i do the same.
we also need stop with the "learning" angle. we all learn differently, some from losing challenges, some from trying something new, etc. |
Two things.
a) Stop calling people names - it's especially ineffective coming from someone with the capacity for literate expression of a soggy tissue.
b) Stop with the crappy straw-man arguments. Nobody said it's not photography. Not one person even hinted at that implication. Nobody suggested, either, that editing somehow diminishes a photograph. What we all did say, repeatedly, is that we want to compete within limitations on an even footing. Good editing enhances photographs; but some forms of editing step far beyond the photographic technique. We want contests that restrict (at least some of) the challenges we participate in to something we actually want to be challenged at - pure photography.
We aren't uninterested in extended editing because we're somehow afraid of it. I for one have worked with photoshop and similar software since I was a teenager, and have professionally edited more photographs in the last decade than I've had hot dinners; I don't need to improve in that, and I simply see no appeal in challenging myself in that. There are, also, many more sites where one can participate in pure photoshop challenges. That's just not what dpchallenge is for, to me, and to many others here.
And yes, agreed, we all learn differently. Except nobody is trying to prevent you from learning by contributing to nebulously-scored extended editing free studies, if you want to; there are plenty of those, and nobody is advocating for their removal. We're advocating for the return of a challenge style that used to be a fundamental staple of this site, when we all first joined, years before you turned up here with your 1000D for the first time, which is what brought many of us here in the first place.
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11/09/2016 11:16:51 AM · #80 |
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