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09/23/2016 01:42:52 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by marnet:
I am very much against it. I never enter Minimal challenges as to me they are pointless. Taking away one weekly challenge and replacing it with Minimal FS would be another nail in the DPC coffin. |
I never enter extended but I'm not against it, it seems fair to me that people who prefer extended get what they want. It is incredible that you can have such an egotistical attitude. |
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09/23/2016 01:48:02 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by marnet:
How about having a democratic vote on this? How many DPCers really want weekly Minimal challenges whether topical or FS? This would tell us how big is really the group of the supporters of Minimal. |
Survey (new Poll) says? :-)
Dang! There's been a lot of Polls over the years. |
Not one about increasing a number of Minimal challenges. And there are much fewer of us now so the result could be different. |
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09/23/2016 01:49:27 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ... |
I am very much against it. I never enter Minimal challenges as to me they are pointless. Taking away one weekly challenge and replacing it with Minimal FS would be another nail in the DPC coffin. |
I think you (and others?) misunderstand -- I just mean that one day, instead of the challenge posted being "Fruit" or "Yellow" or some other specific topic, it could be "Minimal Free Study" ... NOT to have one every week! |
Thanks for clarifying this. I understood every week! I think some others may have too. |
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09/23/2016 01:58:45 AM · #29 |
Never mind, it is pointless
Message edited by author 2016-09-23 02:00:49. |
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09/23/2016 03:51:46 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ... |
I am very much against it. I never enter Minimal challenges as to me they are pointless. Taking away one weekly challenge and replacing it with Minimal FS would be another nail in the DPC coffin. |
I think you (and others?) misunderstand -- I just mean that one day, instead of the challenge posted being "Fruit" or "Yellow" or some other specific topic, it could be "Minimal Free Study" ... NOT to have one every week! |
Yes, I did misunderstand but I still think it is a fabulous idea. A line up like this would be great…
Monthly Free Study
Monthly Extended Free Study
Weekly Minimal Free Study
Fortnightly Challenges x4 (or whatever)
I've noticed some people complaining that there are too many challenges at the moment so this will alleviate their suffering a bit, particularly if they don't like Minimal. They can just ignore it altogether and everyone is happy. |
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09/23/2016 07:15:55 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
It's been said before, but here I am saying Every challenge is open to Minimal Editing comps. Every single one. There is nothing at all holding back the Minimal Editing photogs. |
Yeah, but it's more fun when EVERYONE is competing with the same ruleset. You know that. |
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09/23/2016 08:45:37 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by salmiakki:
Originally posted by markwiley:
I think the number of Minimal challenges went down because it seemed like interest in them was not high. I am not a big fan of Minimal challenges, but if people want more of them then we should certainly try to schedule more. |
Not wanting to pick an argument, but the facts do not actually support that statement. I've done the stats on the minimal/expert (prior to extended) several times and in fact, minimal challenges have typically greater participation than the expert/extended challenges.
Between 2007 and end of 2014, the average number of participants in the very limited number (35) of minimal challenges was 92 per challenge. For the same period, the expert editing challenges (96 challenges) were averaging 62 per challenge. I haven't had time to redo the numbers for 2015 onwards, but I did do it for 2016. In 2016 there have been 5 minimal editing challenges with an average participation of 52 per challenge and there have been 18 extended challenges with an average participation of 48 per challenge. If you exclude the extended free studies to ensure we are comparing like with like, since there isn't a specific minimal free challenge, then the average number of entries per extended challenge is 40 and there have been 10 challenges held (compared to 5 in minimal).
So even when the overall participation is decreasing, the minimal challenges are still getting more participants than the extended. |
Thanks Sarah. |
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09/27/2016 08:09:10 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ... |
While I would welcome any addition of minimal editing challenges, if they were free studies, I personally would not enter them.
For me the whole appeal of the minimal editing ruleset is in its heightened competition. A lot of mediocre photographers can salvage a crap photo of a crap subject with heavy postprocessing, especially more now that the default rules have been considerably slackened in that respect.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the value of editing - in fact I love that it's a major part of the photography process, and I feel that I'm still learning new techniques and tricks every single time I edit a photo. But over the years, dpchallenge has gradually shifted emphasis further and further from skill and technique out in the field, at the time of the shutter press, to skill and technique at home, in front of the computer. Both have their place, but this is Digital Photography Challenge dot com, not Digital Manipulation Challenge dot com. I feel every now and again a proper minimal challenge to remind us of our roots is in order, and sort the men from the boys, if you pardon the gender biased phrase.
A free study just wouldn't achieve that; When I'm shooting, I shoot all week anyway, and it's trivial for me to just throw something in to a free study that looked quite good out of camera. There's no impetus, no motivation. I come here to be challenged, to look down the list and be handed an assignment - and then have the thrill of having to go and fulfil that, come rain or shine. When I do, it's a personal battle between me, and you who also accept the assignment.
It forces focus and creativity, genuine creativity in the heat of the moment of impact, behind the viewfinder. You just don't get that while spending hours plastering over the cracks of a half-arsed photo effort which you polish to a shine in photoshop after. But in a free study, there's just no battle or focus. I'm certain that I'm not the only one here who yearns for more of that drive, the edge of which has been dulled gradually by relaxing rules and less rigorous themes.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by jagar:
... what does SC think ? |
I can only speak for myself ... personally I think there are already too many challenges open at once, and I'd prefer having just one monthly FS |
So here's an obvious idea. Now challenges last twice as long, why not just... have new ones half as often? Then the challenges board will be exactly as populated as it used to be, and you may well get close to an instant doubling of entries per contest when there are half as many to enter, with a doubly long entry period.
Fewer contests for everyone to vote on, too, so each entry can expect more votes. And you get your one free study a month - everyone's happy. You can thank me later!
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09/29/2016 02:40:29 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ... |
I am very much against it. I never enter Minimal challenges as to me they are pointless. Taking away one weekly challenge and replacing it with Minimal FS would be another nail in the DPC coffin. |
I totally agree.
There's also nothing preventing anyone from entering an unedited photo in any challenge. |
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09/29/2016 04:40:11 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Elaine:
There's also nothing preventing anyone from entering an unedited photo in any challenge. |
Yeah. Rrriiiigghht! |
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09/29/2016 05:07:34 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Elaine:
There's also nothing preventing anyone from entering an unedited photo in any challenge. |
Yeah. Rrriiiigghht! |
I've that more than once -- every so often I get a properly-framed photo with good exposure which doesn't really need anything done to it other than the allowed (in Minimal) post-sizing sharpening. |
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09/29/2016 05:38:24 PM · #37 |
| Let's have a minimal bickering challenge! |
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09/29/2016 06:03:17 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by bvy:
Let's have a minimal bickering challenge! |
As Barry says, Yeah. Rrriiiigghht! ;-) |
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09/29/2016 09:44:00 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Elaine:
There's also nothing preventing anyone from entering an unedited photo in any challenge. |
Yeah. Rrriiiigghht! |
I've that more than once -- every so often I get a properly-framed photo with good exposure which doesn't really need anything done to it other than the allowed (in Minimal) post-sizing sharpening. |
Ok - yes, I've done that as well. I guess I'm taking issue with some saying you can just enter a minimal photo in any challenge and you don't need a challenge under that ruleset to do so. It's not the same. Perhaps it depends on your competitive nature. There are times when I enter something and really don't care how it does. However, I do like competing with others on the same playing field most of the time - including a challenge under Minimal rules once in a while. :-) |
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09/29/2016 09:56:46 PM · #40 |
:D |
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09/29/2016 10:14:23 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Lydia:
:D |
Ok, who has a 'Like' button?! LOL |
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09/30/2016 01:12:56 AM · #42 |
| oh my, that is something. |
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10/03/2016 04:44:22 PM · #43 |
Pointlessly weighing in on the same side I've been on for years.
More minimal editing challenges would be fun. EVERYONE would have to adhere to the rules, not just enter a minimally edited photo along with the advanced edited shots. It compares apple to apples in that it's about the photograph, not the manipulating after the fact.
I, personally, want to hone my skills in photography, not how to manipulated it after the fact. If I shoot well to start with, I shouldn't have to manipulate as much. Minimal gives those of us the opportunity to see what we can do along side of others doing the same, not just a processing contest.
This is why the "all have the same ruleset applied" appeals to me.
...now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
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10/03/2016 05:04:42 PM · #44 |
| We HAVE a Minimal-editing challenge posted right now ... of course I just shot for that topic and forgot which rules were in place ... :-( |
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10/04/2016 04:36:29 PM · #45 |
| I love fences. Saw a fence worth shooting this morning. Couldn't figure out how to set my camera to JPG. (I set it to the appropriate file quality, but it was still shooting in RAW. Didn't try after that.) Really a shame this is a minimal challenge because it's just not worth it to me to change the settings. |
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10/04/2016 05:55:02 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Elaine:
I love fences. Saw a fence worth shooting this morning. Couldn't figure out how to set my camera to JPG. (I set it to the appropriate file quality, but it was still shooting in RAW. Didn't try after that.) Really a shame this is a minimal challenge because it's just not worth it to me to change the settings. |
Set your camera to shoot RAW + JPG. :-) Better yet, use this challenge as an excuse to learn the menus & options a little better. |
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11/03/2016 09:30:11 AM · #47 |
| Can we have one at least once in awhile? Thanks. |
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11/03/2016 01:14:29 PM · #48 |
| yeah. it's that time/while again. |
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11/03/2016 09:41:36 PM · #49 |
Yep, once again the board is full of standard editing (fine), with one extended editing but no minimal. How unfair!
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11/03/2016 11:40:52 PM · #50 |
The DPC community is lucky to have a diverse collection photography enthusiasts and professionals. This diversity should be encouraged by offering challenges with all rule sets. I'd like to see at least one minimal rule set challenge a month. If this change appears to be harming DPC, as other members have suggested, then dropping the ruleset might be in order.
As a few other members have stated, I don’t find extended editing that interesting. I'd rather spend my time behind the camera than manipulating pixels. Some have recommended entering minimal and standard edited images into extended ruleset challenges. I’ve done this a few times and even received encouraging comments. My score usually wasn’t so great but that’s fine. The problem is I don't know how to vote on extended rule set challenges. Do I judge the image quality or editing skills? Probably a little of both but I don't feel qualified. I try to vote and comment in every challenge I enter so this is my dilemma. A while back, I started a side challenge for minimal edited images but like most side challenges it wasn't very popular. It’s also a little sad to see one ruleset relegated to a side challenge.
I’m happy DPC has extended rule set challenges but for now they aren’t for me. I don’t see the harm in encouraging different styles and philosophies in image making. Limitations, rules, and constraints might boost your creativity.
Message edited by author 2016-11-04 21:56:01. |
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