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12/02/2015 08:26:28 AM · #26 |
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12/02/2015 09:56:57 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by tnun:
...it behooves us to interrogate the text, the photograph. albeit with impossible questions like Don's - whose dream? whose history? we seem to have lost all confidence in ourselves to interpret. |
Having spent decades working and associating with native peoples both in Canada and the USA I would counter that it is very difficult to interpret what one does not understand.
If we continue to disregard and deny some of the atrocities committed against certain segments of our society, fail to have open discussions and attempt to redress past (and ongoing) injustices, history is not apt to progress much in this regard.
How many in this venue are familiar with things like the Trail of Tears, the Sandy Creek Massacre, the Wounded Knee Massacre, and the "Residential Schools" in Canada that were put in place to shape natives so that they might assimilate into the rest of society.
Ray |
Human history is a long trail of atrocities & misunderstandings. For example, you left out the atrocities against Native Americans committed by Spanish missionaries. |
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12/02/2015 10:36:24 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by tnun:
...it behooves us to interrogate the text, the photograph. albeit with impossible questions like Don's - whose dream? whose history? we seem to have lost all confidence in ourselves to interpret. |
Having spent decades working and associating with native peoples both in Canada and the USA I would counter that it is very difficult to interpret what one does not understand.
If we continue to disregard and deny some of the atrocities committed against certain segments of our society, fail to have open discussions and attempt to redress past (and ongoing) injustices, history is not apt to progress much in this regard.
How many in this venue are familiar with things like the Trail of Tears, the Sandy Creek Massacre, the Wounded Knee Massacre, and the "Residential Schools" in Canada that were put in place to shape natives so that they might assimilate into the rest of society.
Ray |
Human history is a long trail of atrocities & misunderstandings. For example, you left out the atrocities against Native Americans committed by Spanish missionaries. |
Yes I did leave that out... but I was limiting my comments to relatively recent history.
Ray |
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12/02/2015 02:59:49 PM · #29 |
I have not made myself clear. I am well aware, and almost continually conscious of the atrocities inflicted by the "winners." But I also would not be so aware if someone had not recorded or recounted them. It is interesting, do you not think, that it is often the winners who do so, very often unaware that the record condemns them/us?
(I count not a few winners among my forbears - Wounded Knee, King Philip's War, and the odd massacre. And only one station master in the Underground Railroad, a Quaker, but who knows how many of my abundant Quaker provenance were involved in the Slave Trade...)
I am saying that it is all there. It has also amazed me that both Old and New Testaments so revered and worshipped, and indeed shibbolethed (?), contain only one overriding message, itself overridden by so many religious tyrannies.
-for those wanting to know the scope and intensity of European engagement with the North American Native people, I recommend Thomas King's The Inconvenient Indian. (and all his other books if you have time, including his Massey Lecture given some while back. and The Dead Dog Cafe, a cbc radio show that ran for 4 years another while back).
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12/03/2015 12:17:36 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
[quote=tnun]
How many in this venue are familiar with things like the Trail of Tears, the Sandy Creek Massacre, the Wounded Knee Massacre, and the "Residential Schools" in Canada that were put in place to shape natives so that they might assimilate into the rest of society.
Ray |
I'm familiar with the Trail of Tears, historically and ancestrally. I lost a lot of my Cherokee ancestors because of it. At least some of my ancestors made it to Arizona where they settled or I would not be here today. My dad spent a lot of years putting together a very extensive genealogy of the Cherokee side of our family that goes back to where one of our Scottish ancestor (John Stuart) married a Cherokee in the mid 1700's with later descendants being known as Bushyhead (for the large red bush of hair they had) and were fairly prominent (in a minor way) in Cherokee history.
I have the interest but I don't have the drive my dad had to keep after the genealogy that he created. He has thousands of records and data files and several books he put together over the years that I need to do something with so it doesn't get lost. I do miss being able to ask him questions as well as my grandmother about anything Cherokee and also a lot of other associated tribes.
Mike |
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12/03/2015 09:24:51 AM · #31 |
Mike, it is so great that you have a record of your Native American Ancestry. All I have is the name of my paternal great-grandmother. I have absolutely no detail on her ancestry within the tribe. And this was late 19th century to early 20th, not 18th!
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12/03/2015 11:06:02 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Mike, it is so great that you have a record of your Native American Ancestry. All I have is the name of my paternal great-grandmother. I have absolutely no detail on her ancestry within the tribe. And this was late 19th century to early 20th, not 18th! |
Thanks, although I owe it all to my dad who picked up bits and pieces from other relatives as far back as I can remember and then hit that magic spot in the 70's where you have enough information to really start putting the pieces together. He was very active in collecting data right up until he died several years ago. I wish I was more in touch with my Cherokee cousins but we traveled a lot as I was growing up and never got to really know any of them.
Mike |
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12/04/2015 08:35:18 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
... I wish I was more in touch with my Cherokee cousins but we traveled a lot as I was growing up and never got to really know any of them.
Mike |
Never too late to start my friend.
I was ever so interesting in finding out more about my background after I found out I was adopted. I managed to trace my genealogical family back to Scotland and my adoptive father's family back to France, and have shared this information with my daughter.
In both cases I managed to find information going back hundreds of years and marvel at the trials and tribulations these hardy souls had to contend with.
The very best of luck to you.
Ray |
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12/04/2015 08:11:29 PM · #34 |
Assimilation of aboriginal tribes by the interloper is, sadly, nothing new. The Spanish invaded and literally overrode Central America; the Brits sent Australia and NZ its released prisoners and other undesirables. Exactly who invaded the Maori, I don't know, but I've listened to enough Midnight Oil to know that tall bald bloke was right pissed off about it.
And here in North America we killed off the food source for many tribes (buffalo) taking only the hides, leaving the carcasses to rot and be inedible to all but scavengers; we gave them blankets riddled with smallpox; and we brought them *ahem* civilization and if they lacked our version of it, we took their land by force; and worst of all, we brought them religion. Not because they needed it or wanted it; they had their own ways of honouring the animals they killed for food and their ancestors.
But noo, us whities couldn't leave well enough alone and sicced missionaries on them, for no other reason but because WE thought they did need our white crap.
Even though an uncle of mine apparently traced my Mum's side of the family back to Eric the Red (ie 400 AD-ish) I have enough Spaniard and Brit in me to be ashamed on so many levels for what both nations did to the rightful first peoples of the countries they invaded and sought to tame. |
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12/04/2015 09:01:43 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
And here in North America we killed off the food source for many tribes (buffalo) taking only the hides ... |
Worse than that, I think they were killed for their tongues, not the hides or other meat ... think "Buffalo Bill" Cody ... |
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12/04/2015 09:41:05 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by snaffles:
And here in North America we killed off the food source for many tribes (buffalo) taking only the hides ... |
Worse than that, I think they were killed for their tongues, not the hides or other meat ... think "Buffalo Bill" Cody ... |
True, tongues were a delicacy. How sad. |
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12/04/2015 09:52:47 PM · #37 |
| There's a really good exhibition of Curtis' work currently at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History. |
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12/05/2015 12:01:37 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by snaffles:
And here in North America we killed off the food source for many tribes (buffalo) taking only the hides ... |
Worse than that, I think they were killed for their tongues, not the hides or other meat ... think "Buffalo Bill" Cody ... |
It was primarily for the hides (think "buffalo robes") and the tongues were an add-on delicacy, Everything else was left to rot. We're talking over 30 million buffalo in just a few years, less than 15 if I recall correctly :-( |
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12/05/2015 12:21:12 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by snaffles:
And here in North America we killed off the food source for many tribes (buffalo) taking only the hides ... |
Worse than that, I think they were killed for their tongues, not the hides or other meat ... think "Buffalo Bill" Cody ... |
It was primarily for the hides (think "buffalo robes") and the tongues were an add-on delicacy, Everything else was left to rot. We're talking over 30 million buffalo in just a few years, less than 15 if I recall correctly :-( |
they were primarily killed to harm the Native Americans. It was a deliberate act of genocide |
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