Image Dissection & Discussion after Comment

10/22/2015 08:04:39 PM · #26

Wow some great responses people, Jake & Lydia have stated much more elaborately than I my exact thoughts when writing the original comment. Now the image itself has been discussed in detail perhaps we can talk about a few general photographic 'rules' as pertains to this image. I'm well aware that the 'rules' are merely a starting point and really more of a guideline, but feel they should be discussed here as I'm seeing them ignored time and time again. While there is LOTS of subjectivity involved we should be able to agree on some basics - I'll start:

* With very little exception NEVER place your subject in dappled light
* The eye is drawn to the brightest part of the image
* Try to separate the subject from the BG
* Expose for the highlights

BTW: If anyone else has received a comment of mine (or anyone else's) they would like to discuss please feel free to jump in.

10/22/2015 11:47:37 PM · #27

Originally posted by MichaelC:

BTW: If anyone else has received a comment of mine (or anyone else's) they would like to discuss please feel free to jump in.

Love the comment you left on one of mine still in voting! Thanx!

10/22/2015 11:51:59 PM · #28

I have to throw out a general thank you. I learned stuff, and one of the epiphanies I take away from this is that sometimes you can actually force a scene (In this case trying to be clever & OOB) and have it decidedly not work.

It was such a cool building, and the chance to shoot the bike in it was too much to resist. I now know I should have left it out and worked the room for maximum effect.

10/23/2015 12:16:26 AM · #29

I disagree...I loved the bike.....regardless I think you needed to pick a focal point/subject and highlight that. I get that sometimes the scene IS the subject but if you make the entire scene the subject then you have no bg and I believe a strong image needs both. I also don't think you should underestimate the viewer and by that I mean if you had shot it in a way that half the scene fell into the BG through light falloff & DoF then it would have been stronger and the viewer STILL would have got a sense of the grunginess of the entire scene.

10/23/2015 12:27:44 AM · #30

Originally posted by MichaelC:

This is pretty darn funny. I had *SUCH* a hard time with this shoot!

Originally posted by MichaelC:

* With very little exception NEVER place your subject in dappled light

Originally posted by MichaelC:

* The eye is drawn to the brightest part of the image

Originally posted by MichaelC:

* Try to separate the subject from the BG

Originally posted by MichaelC:

* Expose for the highlights

Pretty sure I botched this shoot the whole way 'round! LOL!!!

Maybe this would have been better should I have needed to do it with the bike?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

10/23/2015 12:51:30 AM · #31

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

10/23/2015 09:05:20 AM · #32

I'm not against photographic guidelines for beginners and amateurs who want to improve their craft. I'm also all about reading the manual and understanding the equipment. I also believe artist should be able to get as close as they can to creating their vision without being limited by their equipment or environment - but I think when we talk about photographic "rules" there needs to be a very big caveat; because exposing to the highlights and avoiding dappled light on the subject etc. should be considered a choice, not a rule IMHO.

My rules would be something like:
learn how images you like were created
know how to use your equipment
keep learning
explore new realms

I'm pretty sure generations of artists will spit on conventional rules established for their craft - with all due respect.

T

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

10/23/2015 09:36:42 AM · #33

Know yourself.
Know your equipment.
Avoid expectation.
Stop & look.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

10/23/2015 10:13:34 AM · #34

I haven't read all the comments -- I need to go back and do that.

I gave it a 6. It was a nice photo, but it didn't really make a big impression. But it was a nice photo. Which is 6 in my book.

As far as subject, I actually didn't see the bike as the subject. I saw this as an environmental shot. It was about the whole thing: the graffiti, the bike, the architecture, the fact that indoors was now really outdoors, etc. Making it all about the bike I think actually lessens the shot, imo. Because the environment is more interesting than the bike. So in that matter, Jeb did a nice job on it.

That's one of the problems with making rules. Most people think that there should be a subject in all photos. The majority of time I agree. But sometimes having you eye roaming around without a place to land is actually intriguing if there's more and more do discover as you go.

With that in mind, the only things I would have changed in this was that the background, especially in the well lit area on the back left, seems oversharpened. And I wish some of the shadows were deeper. Maybe have the bike partially sticking out from the back. That way, when your eyes roam, there's more hidden nooks and crannies in which to explore. This was a little flat and to easy, so it doesn't work as well. Everything's there right in front of you.

Now it will be interesting to go back and see who agrees and disagrees with me. :)

Personally, I love dappled light. And there are times where it can be so incredibly interesting. But with the background so bright, the dappling is more of an afterthought and everything gets messier.

10/23/2015 10:20:47 AM · #35

Originally posted by MichaelC:

Now the image itself has been discussed in detail perhaps we can talk about a few general photographic 'rules' as pertains to this image. I'm well aware that the 'rules' are merely a starting point and really more of a guideline, but feel they should be discussed here as I'm seeing them ignored time and time again. While there is LOTS of subjectivity involved we should be able to agree on some basics - I'll start:

* With very little exception NEVER place your subject in dappled light
* The eye is drawn to the brightest part of the image
* Try to separate the subject from the BG
* Expose for the highlights

Originally posted by tate:

My rules would be something like:
learn how images you like were created
know how to use your equipment
keep learning
explore new realms

I'm pretty sure generations of artists will spit on conventional rules established for their craft - with all due respect.

Originally posted by pixelpig:

Know yourself.
Know your equipment.
Avoid expectation.
Stop & look.

How fabulous is this?

Whatever I know, as little as it may be, has been learned here.

I have had many teachers, mentors, people whom I admire, and even people whose comments I haven't necessarily wanted to take to heart, had their effect on me by simply having me take a different look at what and how I shoot.

This has been an amazing thread. I have learned more from this image discussion than I ever could have imagined, not only from differing perspectives from people viewing my image, but my own perspectives being challenged and opened up to things I would not have found without them.

I also love it that some people liked the image, some not so much, and yet even with disparate views overall, they agreed on certain elements of the image.

I recently renewed my membership for my 10th year, and IMNSHO, this thread just made me feel like I got my money's worth and the rest of the year is for free.

DPC community, you are AWESOME!!!

10/23/2015 10:22:51 AM · #36

Of course Wendy & Tate are both right, there are no real 'rules', but you do need a starting point for newbies and any 'rule' can be broken by someone that knows what they're doing. What I was trying to get here was a framework for photogs to refer to when continually entering challenges and finding it hard to break 5. It should also be said that the points I'm making are about doing better in challenges, not general photography so much.

10/23/2015 10:39:00 AM · #37

So many ways to present images.....

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

10/23/2015 10:45:44 AM · #38

Originally posted by MichaelC:

True, but one of the things that seems to happen is after a while when you realize that it's not all about the score, then you start on your journey to discover the photgrapher that *you* are.

That's what this place does......there are so many seriously good photogs, with so many different styles, perspectives, and their "Eye" is special to each one of them.

When I got my GF started here, I noticed a distinct difference in the people who commented and scored her images in comparison to me. In no time flat, she was getting positive comments from the artistic crew, and had images being hung in Posthumous's gallery.

I have a couple of 7+ scores, and a few ribbons, but I have more been trying to concentrate on style and composition.

I have been scoring worse, but getting comments from people I never did before.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

10/23/2015 10:48:35 AM · #39

Yes for me this is the beauty of this site. A great mix of knowledge, opinion, and respect.
Looking at this latest image you are sharing, I can't help but think how this image would feel if you replace the motorcycle with a person. Because as it stands, we are looking at man-made static objects ... but inserting a character in there might change it quite a bit.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I recently renewed my membership for my 10th year, and IMNSHO, this thread just made me feel like I got my money's worth and the rest of the year is for free.

DPC community, you are AWESOME!!!

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

10/23/2015 11:18:18 AM · #40

Originally posted by MichaelC:

I really understand what you're saying, and I'm not sure how to solve the problem. The problem being: once you start creating rules, people think that's the way it has to be.

I wish I had examples, but there have been some wonderful shots on here that broke the rules beautifully, yet you see comments: "never center a horizon. Your horizon should be on a 1/3 line", "leave space for the subject to look", "don't center your subject -- see rule of thirds, spiral, etc.", and so on.

When you teach rules, people get stuck on them. Perhaps it's our upbringing...

Maybe it should be:

1. Don't have dappled light in your photo unless it is an important part of the composition.
2. Don't center your horizon until you've created 100s of landscapes and seascapes on the 1/3 line, so you know why it shouldn't be centered. And understand that sometimes it really IS best.
3. What's the purpose of your photo? Is it about a particular subject? If so -- look at your photo. Is your subject the most important thing in the photo?
a. Have you made it important enough? Or does it get lost in the clutter?
b. Have you made it too important and it's lost any connection to the background?

10/23/2015 07:21:46 PM · #41

Very well put

jgirl57

10/23/2015 10:09:41 PM · #42

I have been following this post and appreciate any comments being made on my images, it makes me think of exactly why it is placing where it is.
I have learned so much in this thread, it is amazing to me on just a few words can turn on my ah-ha moment and light bulb.

If we can have MORE of these conversations and threads, that would be awesome it is one reason I loved DPL so much because getting that feedback is crucial to learning and expanding on what you know or don't know.

These kind of conversations gets me excited about learning and digging more into photography.

It would make me think much better and clearer, before I even shoot, but I have not learned to stop and analyze things much and I believe that is one reason why I have not broke more than a 5 on most of my thing and landed in the top 10 bottom of the lists. There is the idea of what is wanted, then the shooting just to what is thought of,Due to the lighting or other environmental stops, the other is the technical issue and it is still the editing that kills me every time I put it through light room, I can't see the differences of contrasting between the changes that are made. I have to rely on others to tell me if something is too dark or not enough color or darkness. I have to rely on someone to tell me there is too much purples or reds. Seeing the feedback here, I can again see where the thoughts are and that is just amazing to me, and I think it is just because a lot of you are seasoned and with lots of practice LOL.. to hear this stuff of where things need to be positioned or what would make it better is just one of those things that its like, why can't I think of this when an image is being taken. Seeing the first image, I did not vote on that challenge. Great insight on the comments. Love hearing about it and what made a person vote the way they did.

Then there is talk about the style. One thing is, it is never expanded upon, just known as "style" That means nothing to me "yet"
I know I love to shoot the macro, naturalist things. Portraits and street shots will never be me and I cringe every time I have to think about taking something like that. what is style exactly? What is my style? What is your definition of style? Please expand on that more.
Explain to me what is style.
is it the certain things a person likes to shoot or is it their way they always edit their images or is it more things involved?

Message edited by author 2015-10-23 22:24:34.