Does one vote make a difference?

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G

09/02/2015 11:25:40 AM · #26

Originally posted by AP:

And I'll take the moment to mention the obvious that it's the height of arrogance to think when someone's images score better than your own they are cheating, rather than maybe people voted them higher because they felt they were stronger.

what if the voters are in on the cheating?

Nikon D800

09/02/2015 11:35:46 AM · #27

Originally posted by Mike:

[quote=tate] Here's the number of votes for the top 12 images from the dirty challenge from 1st-12th place.

interesting he was the only image on the front page not on Glasseye. clearly the members of Glasseye thought Smurfguys pic was from our team and the low votes got scrubbed.

i would like a special investigation. Maybe dpc could hire an upstanding investigator like Ted Wells?

If this is a joke, I'm offended.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

09/02/2015 11:44:46 AM · #28

Naw... glasseye has too much talent and class to even think about messing around with the voting.

Though I do wish the low votes were tracked better for patterns. It seems like there have been more, recently, than usual. Many times it's a newbie who thinks it's like all the rest of the voting sites on the net "vote early, vote low, vote often and have your relatives vote!". It's a culture now on the web, and people don't really understand that this really is a site about embracing what you think is quality. I know the first couple of month on here, I had a hard time giving higher than I received. Now I really enjoy hitting photox that I know will crush mine. I like seeing what they've done, what I could have done better, etc. And I have no problem scoring it high. It's like appreciating a fine wine, even if you make the wine yourself. You should be able to appreciate it all the more.

Message edited by author 2015-09-02 11:45:29.

Techo

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/02/2015 11:47:23 AM · #29

I have no idea why the votes are lower during DPL. Well I might have a hint but that's a separate discussion and for DPL it's the percentage that matters. So votes do seem lower but the images end up in the order they would've been without the DPL in effect anyway, just with lower scores. So the ribbon and honorable mention winners are well deserved. I would've liked to have kept my 6.5 avg :P but hey. It's numbers. Coupled with the fact that we don't vote images as high as the first time we see them. So if there's less fresh members in the interaction the scoring will drop a bit. It's not easy to get that new thrill feeling back.

The scrubber works nicely. If I don't intend to vote on more than 90%(I try to keep it close as possible to 100%) of the images I tag my faves or images I'm curious about with a 6 (and keep it under 20%) to come back to later. So the scrubber takes my votes out but I can track down those images later. Either to see how well they've done and/or leave a comment after voting ends. My voting style is to pick out images to view(in full) from the thumbs first. Just browse and see what attracts my eye. I do go and do a full browse through later. So based on my own experience, I can't rule out that there are people out there who vote on the minimum just via thumbnail voting. It's nothing new. I'd hate if we were forced to look through each image, next after next without a thumbnail view. For a portfolio site, I was told to avoid thumbnails because you want viewers to look through the images you put forth in the order you put them in but then they are not randomly indexed.

I've been keeping stats since my 2nd or 3rd challenge in DPC. I like stats. Maybe it's time for a graph!

ETA: With less participation than the good ole days a few years ago. Patterns that were hidden with volume/noise are more clearly seen now. They were there, just hard to see.

Message edited by author 2015-09-02 11:57:04.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

09/02/2015 11:50:50 AM · #30

I hadn't been able to vote for a couple of weeks -- on a road trip without internet, and when I tried voting last night, my computer was taking an incredibly long time to load, for some reason. I think I've fixed it now. But the top 5 would probably have had even higher scores if I did. The were nicely done and imaginative.

(anyone having a problem with safari? I've used it for years, and I thought it was just a problem with my internet, which has sucked recently. But chrome is loading so much faster than safari..)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

09/02/2015 12:06:05 PM · #31

Originally posted by AP:

Originally posted by Mike:
[quote=tate] Here's the number of votes for the top 12 images from the dirty challenge from 1st-12th place.

interesting he was the only image on the front page not on Glasseye. clearly the members of Glasseye thought Smurfguys pic was from our team and the low votes got scrubbed.

i would like a special investigation. Maybe dpc could hire an upstanding investigator like Ted Wells?

If this is a joke, I'm offended.

sorry to offend you.

Techo

Canon EOS-7D

09/02/2015 12:06:35 PM · #32

Based on research. We need a new rule. Before one votes, they must eat a snack and preferably that they vote in the morning, before sitting in traffic ;) If one is found to break the rule, their vote is scrubbed. In case of emergencies a DPC powerbar will be the required form of sustenance. *

*research based on Link1 and Link2

09/02/2015 12:09:31 PM · #33

Originally posted by Techo:

i dont know, my score usually drops after the voters have had a chance to eat and have coffee. i prefer if we just scrubbed all votes less than our average.

Message edited by author 2015-09-02 12:14:22.

jasonlprice

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

09/02/2015 12:11:48 PM · #34

I don't know about voting patterns and such but I must say that big picture wise for DPL the voters absolutely got it right. The photos Glasseye entered were better executed than what we submitted. I am super proud of our team and our participation but you gotta give it to Glasseye - they OWNED the dirty challenge.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

09/02/2015 12:12:52 PM · #35

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Techo:
Based on research. We need a new rule. Before one votes, they must eat a snack and preferably that they vote in the morning, before sitting in traffic ;) If one is found to break the rule, their vote is scrubbed. In case of emergencies a DPC powerbar will be the required form of sustenance. *

*research based on Link1 and Link2

i dont know my score usually drops after he voters have had a chance to eat and have coffee. i prefer if we just scrubbed all votes less than our average.

Ooh! I like it. :)

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

09/02/2015 12:14:49 PM · #36

I'm curious ... how do the numbers stack up for the last 12 images in this challenge? Did they get more, or less, votes?

Originally posted by tate:

Here's the number of votes for the top 12 images from the dirty challenge from 1st-12th place.

73
73
69
73
77
72
76
75
71
75
76
74

The lowest vote count is for Jeff's image (3rd place). My count is the 3rd lowest (6th place). Much of our team voted on all images (but were unable to vote on our own) - so our vote counts are lower, I presume.

JakeKurdsjuk

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 100-500mm f/4.5-7.1 L IS USM

09/02/2015 12:51:38 PM · #37

Originally posted by AP:

Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
[quote=Mike] [quote=backdoorhippie]
As for the "thumbnail effect", for me to comment on the fact that you can even vote on an image based on its thumbnail on this site would be enough to send this straight to the RANT section.

Slow down and read for a moment, that's not what I wrote. And no, you can't vote in thumbs, you can't even vote before an image is fully loaded top to bottom. It's simple - better images get more views in thumb mode, then they get more votes because they get more views. Not saying that's a perfect system, but it's a much less nefarious scenario than the one you posited.

And I'll take the moment to mention the obvious that it's the height of arrogance to think when someone's images score better than your own they are cheating, rather than maybe people voted them higher because they felt they were stronger.

I believe I clarified my understanding of this in the subsequent post, so I'd ask you slow down and read what I wrote as well.

I believe the height of arrogance is your assumption that I've ever implied that images that score better than mine have ever been the result of cheating. It's not the images I question, it's the system by which votes are cast. What I am implying, with numbers to back it up, is that the images which score higher do consistently get more votes on average, and that alone casts a shadow on the results regardless if it is for the reason you've stated (selective/thumbnail voting) or any other. If I question anyone's integrity or ethics it is the voter's, not the photographer's. If you're simply glad-handing eye candy then you do a great disservice to everyone else who entered.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/02/2015 01:15:26 PM · #38

Well, I did the research into this portion ...
so feel free to invest time into your curiosity and share it here ;)

Originally posted by glad2badad:

I'm curious ... how do the numbers stack up for the last 12 images in this challenge? Did they get more, or less, votes?

Originally posted by tate:
Here's the number of votes for the top 12 images from the dirty challenge from 1st-12th place.

73
73
69
73
77
72
76
75
71
75
76
74

The lowest vote count is for Jeff's image (3rd place). My count is the 3rd lowest (6th place). Much of our team voted on all images (but were unable to vote on our own) - so our vote counts are lower, I presume.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

09/02/2015 01:30:29 PM · #39

Ah man ... ok, when I get home then. :-)

The premise is to see if "better" images are getting more votes, via thumbnail viewing, than otherwise. Just a thought (provoked by earlier conversation in this thread).

Originally posted by tate:

Well, I did the research into this portion ...
so feel free to invest time into your curiosity and share it here ;)

Originally posted by glad2badad:
I'm curious ... how do the numbers stack up for the last 12 images in this challenge? Did they get more, or less, votes?

Originally posted by tate:
Here's the number of votes for the top 12 images from the dirty challenge from 1st-12th place.

73
73
69
73
77
72
76
75
71
75
76
74

The lowest vote count is for Jeff's image (3rd place). My count is the 3rd lowest (6th place). Much of our team voted on all images (but were unable to vote on our own) - so our vote counts are lower, I presume.

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G

09/02/2015 01:33:58 PM · #40

Alright well I've been reading a lot of 'I'm not saying it's cheating BUT there is definitely something going on' type of language, coupled with this 3rd place received less votes and it was the only image not with Glasseye, so forgive me if I smelled something rotten was brewing.

I also remembered this comment you made before which really irked me

Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

It's like this, if things work the way they're supposed to then #1 and #2 meet up eventually. If we have to beat you guys in the first round before moving on to the 2nd Tier teams, so be it. :)

being joked about as a '2nd tier team', so again, just a little chip on my shoulder :)

For the record I don't really see an actionable issue with the vote numbers. I do think it's precisely because people click on the thumbs they like and then don't vote on the entire challenge, and I don't think long term it makes worse images place higher or any other inequitable outcome.

DPC has always had a little eye-candy bias, but hey, it's to be expected with relatively large voting blocks and not a trained panel of judges. I've learned to use DPC as sort of a barometer for what people like, for which it is very useful.

I have to say overall DPL has been incredibly fun and wish the leagues ran all year, as it really got me out there shooting "for fun" again on a regular basis. Not to mention the fun and learning that goes on in team prep.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/02/2015 01:36:07 PM · #41

At a glance it appears that some of the top images may have an average of 1 or 2 more votes than those at the bottom ... but it seems like the "middle of the road" images have the fewest but only slightly less than the others.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/02/2015 01:38:44 PM · #42

Originally posted by AP:

Originally posted by backdoorhippie:
It's like this, if things work the way they're supposed to then #1 and #2 meet up eventually. If we have to beat you guys in the first round before moving on to the 2nd Tier teams, so be it. :)

um.. "2nd tier" means the "team in the following round". you guys are awful sensitive to claims of wrong doing, i'm just saying, innocents dont react this way :P

ETA - ^^^^^^^^joke^^^^^^^^^^^

Message edited by author 2015-09-02 13:39:05.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

09/02/2015 01:40:48 PM · #43

Are you talking about the "most recent" challenge, the subject of which doesn't exactly inspire "eye candy" images? Anyway, votes by placement for that are

55th - 69 votes

56th - 69

57th - 70

58th - 70

59th - 70

60th - 72

61st - 71

62nd - 68

63rd - 70

64th - 74