CNN correspondant saved by a legal gun.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/29/2015 12:56:17 PM · #401

Originally posted by Cory:

I don't know where I am on this, he at least appears to have tried to follow the rules, not at all certain the vigalante justice is appropriate.

I thought you just said hunting purely for sport is wrong. He's not going to eat that lion -- just mount the head and make a rug or something of the skin. It shouldn't matter whether or not he was trying to follow rules which are themselves "wrong" ...

Sorry, that was Cowboy who said that ... so do YOU think "trophy hunting" is an acceptable "sport"?

Message edited by author 2015-07-29 12:57:37.

Mousie

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

07/29/2015 04:02:46 PM · #402

Do we allow straight up personal attacks in here, these days?

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/29/2015 04:15:17 PM · #403

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:
I don't know where I am on this, he at least appears to have tried to follow the rules, not at all certain the vigalante justice is appropriate.

I thought you just said hunting purely for sport is wrong. He's not going to eat that lion -- just mount the head and make a rug or something of the skin. It shouldn't matter whether or not he was trying to follow rules which are themselves "wrong" ...

Sorry, that was Cowboy who said that ... so do YOU think "trophy hunting" is an acceptable "sport"?

In some cases, sure. There are situations where I have no real problem with it, assuming the person follows the law. Heck folks, I've killed thousands of prarie dogs, for sport. The reason is that they are pests, and I feel no more guilt than when I kill a mouse. Do you honestly not see why this is not only OK, but actually beneficial to us and the animals in question. (FYI, the alternative is poison gas, a slow and painful death)

ubique

Olympus PEN-F

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

07/29/2015 04:30:56 PM · #404

These are my neighbours. They'd be easy to kill; no harder than shooting a dairy cow. Killing one is not a brave nor skilful act. It's the act of a pitiful, inadequate wanker.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/29/2015 05:06:53 PM · #405

Originally posted by Cory:

Heck folks, I've killed thousands of prarie dogs, for sport. The reason is that they are pests, and I feel no more guilt than when I kill a mouse.

Yes, I recognized that aspect of hunting earlier, though citing different "pests" ...

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Lucie, I don't think there's anyone on this thread that will defend the killing of that lion, the way it was done, or the dentist that did it.

I don't think anyone has defended "sport" hunting either -- I think everyone who has posted has said that they themselves hunt for food or possibly "pest" control (i.e. rats and rabbits where they shouldn't be).

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

07/29/2015 05:23:53 PM · #406

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by bohemka:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Lets face it...It is still considered a sport, even though you come out of it with a lot of tasty meat. However killing strictly for sport is wrong. (i.e. leaving the carcass on the ground and not caring for the meat.) The guy that killed the lion was in the wrong and should do some serious jail time for poaching,

He won't. He had all the necessary permits, was shooting under the aegis of a recognized guide/camp, he's completely covered. The ones that will get in trouble are the in-country people who baited the lion out of the park so he could shoot it.

The guy's under assault by half the Internet, and I don't wish him an ounce of mercy. His dental practice will rightfully be run out of town and I hope he doesn't find a place to land. Sounds harsh but this disgusts me. There are photos of him with a dead rhinoceros and leopard as well. Deplorable.

I don't know where I am on this, he at least appears to have tried to follow the rules, not at all certain the vigalante justice is appropriate.

You're wrong on him following the rules. He's been convicted before of lying about a hunt and only got probation. He appears to have also had a sexual harassment suit against him. All in all, not a nice guy. //minecraft-skin-viewer.com/player/ShadowsDelusion?r=1

//heavy.com/news/2015/07/walter-palmer-minnesota-dentist-killed-cecil-the-lion-killer-hunter-sexual-harassment-claim-case-documents-dental-board-complaint/

Message edited by author 2015-07-29 17:27:16.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

07/29/2015 05:44:41 PM · #407

"I don't think there's anyone on this thread that will defend the killing of that lion, the way it was done, or the dentist that did it."

I'm sure you're right. They'd be getting death threats, too.

Fact remains: When you shoot an animal, you don't need the food unless you're a very unusual, very poor, starving American. It's not about the need to shoot....otherwise, you'd be shooting tin cans off a fence. Those of you who need to kill "pests" are invading THEIR territory....not the other way around.

Therefore, you're shooting for fun, just like the dentist who apparently can't get an erection without taking down something bigger than he is. And, he has to cheat to do it.

I have no way of knowing, but if you're one of those guys who posts your grinning face above your bloody prey on Facebook, you're no better than this dentist who I hope gets to spend 15 years in a Zimbabwe prison.

It really isn't that complicated.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

07/29/2015 06:13:23 PM · #408

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Those of you who need to kill "pests" are invading THEIR territory....not the other way around.

This is just plain misinformed. We're animals too. We're part of the ecosystem. We're entitled to our territory as well, and we have the right to defend it. Or, are you saying that cockroaches, ants, and house mice have some sort of moral right to share our homes with us? Should we stop spraying for mosquitoes and just deal with malaria?

And do be aware that ecosystems need apex predators to be healthy. Without them, the other animals grow their populations unchecked and bad things happen. Check out Australia/rabbits to see what I mean, or google last year's mouse plague in South Australia. Closer to home, deer populations in semi-rural environments in America have grown unchecked by natural predators since we, the pioneers, killed off the wolves and other large carnivores that preyed on them. Thus, MAN became the apex predator, and THAT was OK back when men hunted for food and venison was an important food source for us. Not so much now, so the herds DO have to be culled for their health and ours. If we don't do it, nature will, but the interval between population explosion and die-off gets pretty messy for all concerned.

Speaking of "concern", I'M concerned that you actually seem to feel that there's a huge moral gulf between those of us who buy our meat pre-packaged and those who kill it for themselves, and that the hunters are on the immoral side of that gulf in your eyes. I wonder where you stand with the farmer who butchers his own pigs and chickens. He raises those poor little creatures, they learn to trust him, and he KILLS them! O...M...G! It's SO much healthier, mentally, to pretend our beef comes from a steak tree somewhere, I guess...

How about fishermen? You OK with them? Are "meat fishermen" (they eat their catch) at a higher or lower level than "sport fishermen" (they release their catch)? I've never been a hunter, but I've most certainly been a fishermen; much of my life was devoted to it. I ate what I caught, FWIW... I caught this fish back in the late 80's, and I (and my friends and family) ate the whole thing, and many more over the years. I had a chest freezer in the garage just for fish. Tasted better than canned tuna, was healthier, and it cost less. But, oh my goodness, the THRILL of the battle was really something. The fish had a better-than even chance in that battle, BTW: on average, only 1 out of 5 of these monsters hooked are actually captured. It's hard work. Are you OK with that?

Message edited by author 2015-07-29 18:15:33.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

07/29/2015 06:50:10 PM · #409

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Fact remains: When you shoot an animal, you don't need the food unless you're a very unusual, very poor, starving American.

Maybe youi don't need the food, but many of us hunt & fish because we like the food.

Is that okay with you? If not.....too bad.

Originally posted by Luciemac:

It's not about the need to shoot....otherwise, you'd be shooting tin cans off a fence.

Actually I don't need to shoot, I like to shoot, but I shoot targets with a backstop instead of just letting bullets fly out the fenceline. Being a responsible shooter, that's generally how it's done.

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Those of you who need to kill "pests" are invading THEIR territory....not the other way around.

Uh, no...... Did you ever have to put a horse down because they broke their leg in a ground hog hole in their pasture? Ground hogs are destructive, invasive pests that cause all kinds of property damage.......on MY land, and most of the other farmers, cattle, and horse ranchers in the area. As are many rodents such as mice, squirrels, chipmunks, raccoons.....but it's quite obvious that you don't know the first thing about the real world as it pertains to animal control. you seem to be completely unaware of your ignorance from your ridiculous pedestal. You keep casting aspersions on people doing what is a very real part of their life and denigrating them without any kind of valid reason. Nobody endorses what wackos & extremists do any more than I would think that all women were like you.

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Therefore, you're shooting for fun, just like the dentist who apparently can't get an erection without taking down something bigger than he is.

Not even close to a valid comparison comparing those of us who move along in real life as a rural resident. And for some reason, you somehow want to again call out our male organs. You seem to have quite the fixation. What's wrong with you that calling out anyone who doesn't think like you do must have a small penis? Can't you offer any more intelligent discourse than that?

Originally posted by Luciemac:

It really isn't that complicated.

It would be nice if you would actually know what you're talking about instead of being such a jerk.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

07/30/2015 11:40:28 AM · #410

This article is an opinion piece, but it really says it all. And it was written by a guy out of Los Angeles...

bohemka

Nikon D700

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

07/30/2015 12:16:57 PM · #411

Seems like a very pleasant fellow.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/30/2015 12:53:44 PM · #412

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

This article is an opinion piece, but it really says it all. And it was written by a guy out of Los Angeles...

Actually, it doesn't say it all. What it does give is the "Pro gun" perception of reality.

There are comments made that are at best outright fabrications, like the one about gun seizures in Australia. I also suspect that the political slant of the author may have some bearing on the findings and that his perception might very well be skewed by his dislike for the POTUS.

Just another man's opinion.

Ray

Message edited by author 2015-07-30 12:55:45.

07/30/2015 12:55:54 PM · #413

"are you saying that cockroaches, ants, and house mice have some sort of moral right to share our homes with us? "

Nope, not at all. I'm saying we invaded THEIR homes...you think they weren't there before we started encroaching on their space? You REALLY don't have to kill them to keep them out of your house. If you need instruction on this, let me know.

"And do be aware that ecosystems need apex predators to be healthy."

Agreed. But, for some reason, humans believe that because they have the ability to overpower ANY species with a gun, or crossbow, or pesticides, or anything else that an animal can't defend against, they're somehow more "deserving". We "moralists" don't believe that.

"I'M concerned that you actually seem to feel that there's a huge moral gulf between those of us who buy our meat pre-packaged and those who kill it for themselves, and that the hunters are on the immoral side of that gulf in your eyes"

Depends on how you define morality. We may differ on that. But, last I heard, it wasn't a crime to disagree with you.

" I wonder where you stand with the farmer who butchers his own pigs and chickens."

I stand with the law....it's legal for him to do that. Therefore, he can. And, I'll assume he's not doing it for fun, but for food. AND, he's raising them specifically for that purpose....OR, to win a blue ribbon at the state fair, which is even worse IMO.

How about fishermen? You OK with them?

Nope. Again: commercial hunting/fishing isn't a sport. It's not done for your entertainment. Y'know...all this silly back and forth and it all really boils down to one thing: I'm not religious at all, but I believe in the Golden Rule. Do you?

"the THRILL of the battle was really something. The fish had a better-than even chance in that battle, "

I'll bet! But, why did there need to be a battle at all? Was this tuna endangering your life in some way? Or, were you feeling particularly insecure that day? And, that tuna was NEVER going to win, one way or the other, right? Why don't you take up boxing, or football? That way if you wanna kill something, it can at least be your own species.

"Ground hogs are destructive, invasive pests that cause all kinds of property damage"

So, where should God have put ground hogs instead? Maybe you could put in a work order. Maybe, you should have another place to corral your horses....? Or, you could use dynamite or something and just bomb the whole pasture. What're you waiting for? Ground hogs can't fight back!

"It would be nice if you would actually know what you're talking about instead of being such a jerk."

Jeb, we're done. I don't mind debating adults, but you're a little young for me. Name-calling is for adolescents.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/30/2015 01:08:24 PM · #414

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Name-calling is for adolescents.

Says the "mature" human who comments on her debate opponent's erections ...?

BTW, "commercial fishing" may not be a sport, but it certainly isn't done for "entertainment" unless your idea of entertainment is a Charley the Tuna or McDonalds Filet-O-Fish commercial ...

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

07/30/2015 01:09:59 PM · #415

"Actually, it doesn't say it all. What it does give is the "Pro gun" perception of reality.

There are comments made that are at best outright fabrications, like the one about gun seizures in Australia. I also suspect that the political slant of the author may have some bearing on the findings and that his perception might very well be skewed by his dislike for the POTUS. "

Ray, we may actually have found something to agree about. There IS no "reality" in debates of this sort....my reality is MINE, yours is yours. My "morality" may be different from yours. Never the twain shall meet, but it's nice to see from you something that I agree with.

"As far as fabrications, IJReview should never, ever be considered a "credible source" for anything. It's pure propaganda for the right.

"The Independent Journal Review is an American viral news website founded in 2012. .....The website is owned and operated by two former Republican party staff and the editor is Bert Atkinson, a former waiter. The site has been described as a cross between BuzzFeed and RedState and a cross between the Drudge Report and Upworthy" ~ Wikipedia

" Digiday described the Independent Journal Review's publishing model as "hyper-viral," with short articles of only a few hundred words that combine "scandalous, curiosity-inducing headlines . . .with a focus on conservative interests." ~ Wikipedia

**** Wikipedia is usually not the best source for information because it's open-source and info found there can be changed at any time. On this topic, however, it was a good choice for a characterization of IJReview.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

07/30/2015 01:14:54 PM · #416

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Originally posted by Erastus:

Originally posted by Luciemac:

And, I'm not a violent woman. But, this guy deserves some serious karma.

There are several defenders of "sport hunting" on this page. I hope they'll chime in and tell us why this guy DOESN'T deserve whatever bad stuff (physical or psychological) happens to him as a result of this $50,000 "sporting" event.

Remember the sadistic dentist in the Little Shop of Horrors? This is he.

Wow, hate just simmers up in waves from you. Why don't you start a thread about this lion killing thing? If I were mad as you I'd sure start one quick.

The fact you're NOT mad speaks volumes, Erastus. You and yours make me feel dirty.

Seems you misinterpreted what

Erastus actually said.

Now go back, re-read his comment and see if you can understand the difference.

Ray

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/30/2015 01:15:06 PM · #417

The Hunting Song

Words and Music by Tom Lehrer (c. 1952)

Almost every day during the hunting season you see at least one item in the newspapers about somebody who has shot somebody else, under the impression that he was a deer with a red hat, perhaps. Maybe a large flesh-colored squirrel. At any rate, it seems to me that this marks an encouraging new trend in the field of blood sports, and deserves a new type of hunting song which I present herewith.

I always will remember,
'Twas a year ago November,
I went out to hunt some deer
On a morning bright and clear.
I went and shot the maximum the game laws would allow:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.

I was in no mood to trifle,
I took down my trusty rifle
And went out to stalk my prey.
What a haul I made that day!
I tied them to my fender, and I drove them home somehow:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a cow.

The law was very firm, it
Took away my permit,
The worst punishment I ever endured.
It turned out there was a reason,
Cows were out of season,
And one of the hunters wasn't insured.

People ask me how I do it,
And I say "There's nothin' to it,
You just stand there lookin' cute,
And when something moves, you shoot!"
And there's ten stuffed heads in my trophy room right now:
Two game wardens, seven hunters, and a pure-bred Guernsey cow.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/30/2015 01:19:42 PM · #418

""commercial fishing" may not be a sport, but it certainly isn't done for "entertainment" "

I said this: "commercial hunting/fishing isn't a sport. It's not done for your entertainment." If I said that ^^^^ somewhere else (which I didn't), I apologize for the typos.

Women hunt, too, but the vast majority of men hunt because they've been the "hunters" from the beginning of time. It's built in. It used to be a necessity. Now, it's for fun....not necessity. We get to CHOOSE. So, what makes a man get off on killing another living being rather than say, working at a food bank or teaching kids to swim? Think it has anything to do with testosterone?

As far as erections: doesn't that apply to ALL men who hunt for sport? It wasn't a direct attack on Jeb as his "jerk" comment was on me. Not that I really mind since it says more about him than me. But, from this point on, he's useless to debate with for obvious reasons. Too bad, too, because his photos are awesome!

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

07/30/2015 01:38:21 PM · #419

Originally posted by Luciemac:

Wow, really? Your ignorance & hubris genuinely knows no bounds. This is just one of many demonstrable facts that you've gotten wrong, and since I'm not getting paid to educate you, I'll just tackle this one, then let you figure out the rest of the shit you've gotten wrong on your own.

House mice and coachroaches were not present before humans arrived, except for a very small portion of the present day range. Humans accidentally transported these invasive pests along with them. Furthermore, they only genuinely thrive where humans live, without us they would suffer massive population reduction and disappear from a large part of the world.

Now, maybe you can figure out that you really don't know half of what you think you do. I'd suggest that you start examining what you beleive, because although you claim to not be religious, you certainly suffer from faith.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

07/30/2015 03:39:37 PM · #420

The constant irrational and unjustified fear of having all the guns taken away is the primary fuel for these so-called debates. It also happens to help SELL guns. More crazy shootings, more irrational fear that someone will come for your guns, more purchases. So effectively, the NRA and the gun industry benefit every time a shooting occurs because they fan the flames of fear once again and encourage people to stock up on guns and ammo.

Gun ownership is down in this country. How do they keep selling guns? Spread fear!

"You can talk all day about how crime has diminished where concealed carry is allowed, while it flourishes in Democrat blue cities where gun control is tightest." ...
From what I've read, this statement is completely the opposite of true. Which seems strange coming from someone who's entire opinion is based on being lied to by liberals.

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

This article is an opinion piece, but it really says it all. And it was written by a guy out of Los Angeles...

Message edited by author 2015-07-30 15:39:53.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

07/30/2015 03:56:21 PM · #421

Originally posted by Luciemac:

How about fishermen? You OK with them?

Nope. Again: commercial hunting/fishing isn't a sport. It's not done for your entertainment. Y'know...all this silly back and forth and it all really boils down to one thing: I'm not religious at all, but I believe in the Golden Rule. Do you?

"the THRILL of the battle was really something. The fish had a better-than even chance in that battle, "

I'll bet! But, why did there need to be a battle at all? Was this tuna endangering your life in some way? Or, were you feeling particularly insecure that day? And, that tuna was NEVER going to win, one way or the other, right? Why don't you take up boxing, or football? That way if you wanna kill something, it can at least be your own species.

It's really hard for me to deal with this blindness/irrationality. It's (from my perspective) absolutely ridiculous to say that it's somehow immoral for a man to hunt his own food, apparently because he gets a "thrill" and/or satisfaction out of doing so. How you can possibly say that a commercial fishing operation that harvests an entire school of tuna at once and mechanically guts/bleeds/processes them is somehow more moral or natural or acceptable than a man going one-on-one with the fish is simply beyond me.

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

07/30/2015 04:09:59 PM · #422

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I'm wondering what her views on procreation are. If her stance on this is any indicator, sexual reproduction is evil, sure, way back before artificial insemination it was necessary, but today such hedonistic pleasures are really quite unnecessary.

Also, I'm betting she thinks all cops have tiny dicks and that slaughterhouse workers are something akin to saints with horse-sized equipment.

Message edited by author 2015-07-30 16:14:02.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

07/30/2015 04:14:11 PM · #423

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's really hard for me to deal with this blindness/irrationality. It's (from my perspective) absolutely ridiculous to say that it's somehow immoral for a man to hunt his own food, apparently because he gets a "thrill" and/or satisfaction out of doing so.

I'm wondering what her views on procreation are. If her stance on this is any indicator, sexual reproduction is evil, sure, way back before artificial insemination it was necessary, but today such hedonistic pleasures are really quite unnecessary.

AWWW COME ON!!! Don't take that from me too. Damn what is this world coming to??

Message edited by Bear_Music - edited quote.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

07/30/2015 04:18:41 PM · #424

Originally posted by Dave Ross:

God Sends A Clear Message

... as any Baytown TV news anchor can tell you, Pastor Holmes is a "pistol-packing pastor." A pistol-packing pastor who happened to be sleeping in the church with said pistol packed....

Last year, Pastor Holmes brought another thief to justice ...

He preached to his congregation the next day that God believes in the Second Amendment. Which I don't doubt for a moment. When Jesus said turn the other cheek it was because that's where he figured your holster would be hanging.

But I also note that there is no mention of either thief being armed, which means that God is also saying the best situation for a good guy with a gun is a bad guy without a gun.