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07/28/2015 10:00:43 AM · #376 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by scalvert:
You would think so, yet two years after that study was published we're still at it, gun laws have only been relaxed, and now we have politicians calling for carrying guns into movie theaters and decrying "gun-free" zones. Never mind that the only gun-free zones in Lousiana law are around schools (only 4 school shootings in the last 15 years for the state with the 2nd highest rate of gun deaths), or that several of the Chattanooga victims were armed. |
i think its funny when you read the comments on article like this that people try to discredit it. "the study didn't take this into account, or this, thus its invalid."
yet when you look outside the US, you see the same trends.
i think its safe to that more guns equals more gun homicides, if by observation only. |
I'm fairly certain that homicides by hammer are higher around construction workers too. I worry that we will focus on the guns instead of the real issue, which is why the fuck people have such a strong desire to kill one another. Just a funny though here, but what if we discover that people are just inclined to kill one another, no matter what tools are around to do the deed? Then what do we do? |
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07/28/2015 10:03:53 AM · #377 |
Originally posted by Cory:
I'm fairly certain that homicides by hammer are higher around construction workers too. I worry that we will focus on the guns instead of the real issue, which is why the fuck people have such a strong desire to kill one another. Just a funny though here, but what if we discover that people are just inclined to kill one another, no matter what tools are around to do the deed? Then what do we do? |
stop giving them weapons that make it easier?
Message edited by author 2015-07-28 10:04:14. |
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07/28/2015 10:45:20 AM · #378 |
Originally posted by Cory:
I'm fairly certain that homicides by hammer are higher around construction workers too. I worry that we will focus on the guns instead of the real issue, which is why the fuck people have such a strong desire to kill one another. Just a funny though here, but what if we discover that people are just inclined to kill one another, no matter what tools are around to do the deed? Then what do we do? |
That's a version of the "people will find another way" argument. The thing is, they don't. Countries that have implemented gun controls see their firearm homicide (and suicide) rates drop without a corresponding increase in other methods. |
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07/28/2015 12:43:16 PM · #379 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Cory:
I'm fairly certain that homicides by hammer are higher around construction workers too. I worry that we will focus on the guns instead of the real issue, which is why the fuck people have such a strong desire to kill one another. Just a funny though here, but what if we discover that people are just inclined to kill one another, no matter what tools are around to do the deed? Then what do we do? |
That's a version of the "people will find another way" argument. The thing is, they don't. Countries that have implemented gun controls see their firearm homicide (and suicide) rates drop without a corresponding increase in other methods. |
It's 'cuz guys like blowing things up. They like things that go bang. Guns are very satisfying at an atavistic level because they go bang. Hammers and such are nowhere near as much fun to get impulsive with. Especially on yourself. I wonder if there's ever been a suicide-by-hammer? |
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07/28/2015 12:43:52 PM · #380 |
Originally posted by Cory:
... the real issue, which is why the fuck people have such a strong desire to kill one another. |
"Most of the trouble in the world is caused by people wanting to be important."
- T.S. Eliot |
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07/28/2015 12:50:12 PM · #381 |
After madmen shoot up a school, church or theater, there is always an outcry to address gun violence. Gun control supporters call for stricter regulation that would close loopholes and essentially vet potential buyers to ensure that they aren't an obvious public threat. Gun rights supporters say guns aren't the problem and we should be enforcing existing laws, arm the citizens and concentrate on mental illness since guns don't kill people, people kill people. Here's why the latter claims are completely bogus:
Among the more notable recent rampages, we have Aurora, Tuscon, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Chattanooga, Charleston and this theater in Louisiana. In all of those cases, the shooters were CLEARLY unstable, filled with hatred and/or radicalized. Is there anyone who can look at the manifestos, social media posts and histories of erratic behavior among the shooters and say, with a straight face, that those people should have unrestricted access to guns and ammunition? If not, then you already acknowledge the folly of the "guns don't kill people" nonsense.
Maybe we should arm the citizens? Well, there was an armed citizen in Tuscon, and he came within seconds of shooting one of the good guys in broad daylight, let alone a dark theater. There was an armed deputy on school grounds at Columbine and another nearby, and two of the Chattannooga victims were armed. How did those work out? Total number of mass shootings stopped by gun-toting civilians to date: zero. The whole premise of criminals being afraid to face guns is flawed from both ends since these lunatics aften shoot themselves, and if they really were afraid there's nothing to prevent them from wearing full body armor like the Aurora shooter.
What about enforcing existing laws? We already do, and those laws have proven inadequate. Several of these shooters' guns were legally purchased as gifts, private gun sales aren't even ALLOWED to include a background check in most states, straw purchasers can't be held accountable unless they know the gun will be used in a crime, and the Charleston shooter's purchase was allowed to proceed without a completed background check just because it ran longer than 3 days. Existing laws also don't bar mental patients from buying guns unless they are involuntarily committed or specifically prohibited by a judge, and some states don't even have requirements to share THOSE records with the background check database. Despite a history of erratic bahavior, domestic violence and even attempted arson, the Louisiana shooter had no problem buying a gun legally because there was no law to prevent it, and state sheriffs are now severely limited from using discretion.
This is an absurd state of affairs, and for what... 2nd amendment that provided for national defense in the early days of a country with no military? We have a military now, thanks, and no other purpose is even suggested by that amendment. It says nothing about overthrowing the government or protecting yourself in the dairy aisle of a Winn Dixie. I'm sure shooting cans with an AR-15 is tons of fun... as is blowing up things with a stick of dynamite. So? A strict process of training, registration, licensing and thorough background checks should be no more problematic than getting a car, along with similar regulations that govern the permitted types and safe use of those machines. If you want a rifle for hunting, a Glock for the firing range or a vintage musket for your collection, peachy... go through the process. Offer a free program to certify existing gun owners, anonymous buybacks other guns, and make it a serious felony to be caught without that certification (with a tip line and bounty to report offenders). Criminals and anti-government wingnuts will avoid compliance, but over time such a program will work, as it already has in other countries, and the unsafe guns will fade out like automatic weapons did. Let's face it, you weren't going to stop Hans Gruber from blowing up the Nakatomi building anyway.
Message edited by author 2015-07-28 12:52:37. |
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07/28/2015 01:06:38 PM · #382 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I wonder if there's ever been a suicide-by-hammer? |
Wasn't there a case where a very determined person committed suicide by using a hand powered meat grinder?
Ray |
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07/28/2015 02:14:37 PM · #383 |
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07/28/2015 02:27:54 PM · #384 |
I'm not a violent man but I would take great pleasure in kicking this guys teeth out, sad. |
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07/28/2015 02:57:47 PM · #385 |
| hope they charge him with poaching and he gets locked up. |
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07/28/2015 03:48:12 PM · #386 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Cory:
I'm fairly certain that homicides by hammer are higher around construction workers too. I worry that we will focus on the guns instead of the real issue, which is why the fuck people have such a strong desire to kill one another. Just a funny though here, but what if we discover that people are just inclined to kill one another, no matter what tools are around to do the deed? Then what do we do? |
That's a version of the "people will find another way" argument. The thing is, they don't. Countries that have implemented gun controls see their firearm homicide (and suicide) rates drop without a corresponding increase in other methods. |
It's 'cuz guys like blowing things up. They like things that go bang. Guns are very satisfying at an atavistic level because they go bang. Hammers and such are nowhere near as much fun to get impulsive with. Especially on yourself. I wonder if there's ever been a suicide-by-hammer? |
I know of at least one by circular saw (that was gnarly), but yeah, never heard of a hammer suicide.
FYI - my argument was really a little different from the "find another way" argument, it's more that prevalence of a weapon tends to mean that weapon will be used more often. We do have a LOT of guns, therefore they tend to be used pretty regularly for homicides, not just becuase they work pretty damn well, but because they're conveniently at hand. |
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07/28/2015 03:50:33 PM · #387 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I'm not a violent man but I would take great pleasure in kicking this guys teeth out, sad. |
\
What's worse is that this will almost certainly result in the death of the cubs as well from a rival male. |
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07/28/2015 03:53:29 PM · #388 |
Originally posted by jagar:
I'm not a violent man but I would take great pleasure in kicking this guys teeth out, sad. |
And, I'm not a violent woman. But, this guy deserves some serious karma.
There are several defenders of "sport hunting" on this page. I hope they'll chime in and tell us why this guy DOESN'T deserve whatever bad stuff (physical or psychological) happens to him as a result of this $50,000 "sporting" event.
Remember the sadistic dentist in the Little Shop of Horrors? This is he. |
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07/28/2015 04:25:56 PM · #389 |
Originally posted by Cory:
my argument was really a little different from the "find another way" argument, it's more that prevalence of a weapon tends to mean that weapon will be used more often. |
That was the point you were countering: "i think its safe to that more guns equals more gun homicides." You could have just agreed instead of speculating that American humans might be more violent than non-American humans when less guns resulted in less homicides in other countries. |
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07/28/2015 06:11:13 PM · #390 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Bullcrap stat times 500. But at least I expected this from you. LOL |
Erastus, if it's bullcrap, you should be able to prove it. Credible sources only, please. If you can prove your position with data and withOUT excuses this time, perhaps we can take you seriously. [/quote]
Actually I have no intention of proving anything. There is no proof you would accept. Scalverts quote is garbage that has been dredged up over and over for 30 years. It's a knee-jerk reaction to anything or anybody that isn't anti-gun. And...... before I'd even think of trying to prove what I said I'd really need for Skalvert to dredge up the original study. And I don't recall dropping any excuses in this forum. Perhaps you have me confused with someone. |
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07/28/2015 06:17:15 PM · #391 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
And, I'm not a violent woman. But, this guy deserves some serious karma.
There are several defenders of "sport hunting" on this page. I hope they'll chime in and tell us why this guy DOESN'T deserve whatever bad stuff (physical or psychological) happens to him as a result of this $50,000 "sporting" event.
Remember the sadistic dentist in the Little Shop of Horrors? This is he. |
Wow, hate just simmers up in waves from you. Why don't you start a thread about this lion killing thing? If I were mad as you I'd sure start one quick. |
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07/28/2015 06:28:07 PM · #392 |
Originally posted by Erastus:
Originally posted by Luciemac:
And, I'm not a violent woman. But, this guy deserves some serious karma.
There are several defenders of "sport hunting" on this page. I hope they'll chime in and tell us why this guy DOESN'T deserve whatever bad stuff (physical or psychological) happens to him as a result of this $50,000 "sporting" event.
Remember the sadistic dentist in the Little Shop of Horrors? This is he. |
Wow, hate just simmers up in waves from you. Why don't you start a thread about this lion killing thing? If I were mad as you I'd sure start one quick. |
The fact you're NOT mad speaks volumes, Erastus. You and yours make me feel dirty. |
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07/28/2015 07:55:30 PM · #393 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
Originally posted by Erastus:
Originally posted by Luciemac:
And, I'm not a violent woman. But, this guy deserves some serious karma.
There are several defenders of "sport hunting" on this page. I hope they'll chime in and tell us why this guy DOESN'T deserve whatever bad stuff (physical or psychological) happens to him as a result of this $50,000 "sporting" event. |
Wow, hate just simmers up in waves from you. Why don't you start a thread about this lion killing thing? If I were mad as you I'd sure start one quick. |
The fact you're NOT mad speaks volumes, Erastus. You and yours make me feel dirty. |
Lucie, I don't think there's anyone on this thread that will defend the killing of that lion, the way it was done, or the dentist that did it. |
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07/28/2015 08:11:08 PM · #394 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Lucie, I don't think there's anyone on this thread that will defend the killing of that lion, the way it was done, or the dentist that did it. |
I don't think anyone has defended "sport" hunting either -- I think everyone who has posted has said that they themselves hunt for food or possibly "pest" control (i.e. rats and rabbits where they shouldn't be). |
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07/29/2015 12:34:25 AM · #395 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Cory:
my argument was really a little different from the "find another way" argument, it's more that prevalence of a weapon tends to mean that weapon will be used more often. |
That was the point you were countering: "i think its safe to that more guns equals more gun homicides." You could have just agreed instead of speculating that American humans might be more violent than non-American humans when less guns resulted in less homicides in other countries. |
I do generally think that, as long as we're talking about the countries that are ostensibly civilized. |
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07/29/2015 12:38:47 AM · #396 |
Originally posted by Luciemac:
The fact you're NOT mad speaks volumes, Erastus. You and yours make me feel dirty. |
Now I see why you're here, you dirty girl you... It's OK, we're pretty non-judgemental lot, whatever gets you off is fine with us.. :-D
Message edited by author 2015-07-29 00:56:43. |
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07/29/2015 08:40:21 AM · #397 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Lucie, I don't think there's anyone on this thread that will defend the killing of that lion, the way it was done, or the dentist that did it. |
I don't think anyone has defended "sport" hunting either -- I think everyone who has posted has said that they themselves hunt for food or possibly "pest" control (i.e. rats and rabbits where they shouldn't be). |
Lets face it...It is still considered a sport, even though you come out of it with a lot of tasty meat. However killing strictly for sport is wrong. (i.e. leaving the carcass on the ground and not caring for the meat.) The guy that killed the lion was in the wrong and should do some serious jail time for poaching,
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07/29/2015 10:16:21 AM · #398 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Lets face it...It is still considered a sport, even though you come out of it with a lot of tasty meat. However killing strictly for sport is wrong. (i.e. leaving the carcass on the ground and not caring for the meat.) The guy that killed the lion was in the wrong and should do some serious jail time for poaching, |
He won't. He had all the necessary permits, was shooting under the aegis of a recognized guide/camp, he's completely covered. The ones that will get in trouble are the in-country people who baited the lion out of the park so he could shoot it. |
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07/29/2015 11:15:54 AM · #399 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Lets face it...It is still considered a sport, even though you come out of it with a lot of tasty meat. However killing strictly for sport is wrong. (i.e. leaving the carcass on the ground and not caring for the meat.) The guy that killed the lion was in the wrong and should do some serious jail time for poaching, |
He won't. He had all the necessary permits, was shooting under the aegis of a recognized guide/camp, he's completely covered. The ones that will get in trouble are the in-country people who baited the lion out of the park so he could shoot it. |
The guy's under assault by half the Internet, and I don't wish him an ounce of mercy. His dental practice will rightfully be run out of town and I hope he doesn't find a place to land. Sounds harsh but this disgusts me. There are photos of him with a dead rhinoceros and leopard as well. Deplorable. |
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07/29/2015 12:05:23 PM · #400 |
Originally posted by bohemka:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Lets face it...It is still considered a sport, even though you come out of it with a lot of tasty meat. However killing strictly for sport is wrong. (i.e. leaving the carcass on the ground and not caring for the meat.) The guy that killed the lion was in the wrong and should do some serious jail time for poaching, |
He won't. He had all the necessary permits, was shooting under the aegis of a recognized guide/camp, he's completely covered. The ones that will get in trouble are the in-country people who baited the lion out of the park so he could shoot it. |
The guy's under assault by half the Internet, and I don't wish him an ounce of mercy. His dental practice will rightfully be run out of town and I hope he doesn't find a place to land. Sounds harsh but this disgusts me. There are photos of him with a dead rhinoceros and leopard as well. Deplorable. |
I don't know where I am on this, he at least appears to have tried to follow the rules, not at all certain the vigalante justice is appropriate.
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