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05/27/2004 01:21:39 AM · #51 |
It seems what has not been learned here is that intelligence, financial success, resumes, etc, do not lend credibility to anyone who lacks character.
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05/27/2004 01:24:30 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by StevePax:
It seems what has not been learned here is that intelligence, financial success, resumes, etc, do not lend credibility to anyone who lacks character. |
Well youâre a better man than I if you can attest to someone's character without ever meeting them or speaking to them. I can also maybe falsely assume your pointing that sharp point at me? Why because I'm blunt, honest and non-PC...
You might want to hold that last judgment on all of us!
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05/27/2004 01:28:34 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
After he attacked me for being Catholic... If you can feel ofended by a picture, I can feel offended by his hatred... |
... and I had already called him on it. All I said was that your disclaimer was not much of a disclaimer, a statement which I stand by. His offense was the same as yours; it just bothered you more because it was directed at YOUR beliefs.
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
One suggestion: If you wish to engage in intelligent debate, it is best to treat your opponents with the same level of courtesy and respect you expect to receive in return. |
I tried that, my conservative view didn't get many nice replies, so I stepped up the talk a little bit. BTW: I'm guess no one cared when it was the other way around! |
You posted, I replied nicely, and you jumped all over me. In fact, the first sentence of your reply was a personal attack. If you tried, you didn't try very hard.
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
You opponents are most likely to give thought to what you say when your arguments are presented in a respectful manner and are based in fact. When those same arguments are coupled with derogatory statements and personal attacks, you generally will not be taken seriously. |
Hell, some of you guys denounce me simply because I'm young. Yet I probably have more business and political experience than most of you! Notice I didn't say all of you for those awaiting to pounce on me! |
I don't see any evidence in this thread of people denouncing you because you are young. Treat your opponents with respect, and most of them will return the favor. Intelligent debate cannot happen without mutual respect.
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Of course, if your intent is to stir up a flame war, then all of the above is moot. |
Talking with people who agree with me is boring, and this is the rant section is it not? |
One can disagree without flaming. This is the "Rant" folder. It is NOT the "Personal Attacks and Baiting" folder.
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Besides, anyone who is anti-war because they hate Bush probably suffers from cranial-rectum-itis and doesn't understand common sense or well educated view points. |
This thread is not about the war. We have plenty of others on that topic.
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05/27/2004 01:29:11 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
bad spelling and education don't go hand in hand. |
I think in your case it does. Like I said most everything is a matter of opinion.
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05/27/2004 01:31:36 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
Originally posted by Russell2566:
bad spelling and education don't go hand in hand. |
I think in your case it does. Like I said most everything is a matter of opinion. |
How so? Explain your self?
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05/27/2004 01:37:25 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Well youâre a better man than I if you can attest to someone's character without ever meeting them or speaking to them. I can also maybe falsely assume your pointing that sharp point at me? Why because I'm blunt, honest and non-PC... |
One reveals a lot about his character by the respect he shows to others.
âEvery action done in company ought to be done with some sign of respect to those that are present.â
-George Washington
âMen are respectable only as they respect.â
-Ralph W. Emerson
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05/27/2004 01:42:10 AM · #57 |
I'm curious, would you hold others like garrywhite2 up to this, or just me... I don't think anyone ever cared when I've been bashed or personally insulted.
I have a gray scale view on the world, I think I'm right, others disagree. I often make my attacks a little to sharp, but I often feel I'm provoked first, maybe I'm wrong...
I do know that as a minority here as far as politics go, my view is rarely respected... So tell me, for how long should I be disrespected for before I play with the same size ball?
Message edited by author 2004-05-27 01:43:19.
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05/27/2004 01:50:12 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
I'm curious, would you hold others like garrywhite2 up to this, or just me... I don't think anyone ever cared when I've been bashed or personally insulted. |
MadMordegon insulted you (by insulting your religion) and I called him on it. All other attacks I have seen against you were a direct response to one of your own.
You are also the only person in this thread who has included a personal attack in nearly every post he made, and against such a large number of the thread participants. I have yet to see you disagree with anyone in this thread WITHOUT attacking them.
Originally posted by Russell2566:
I have a gray scale view on the world, I think I'm right, others disagree. I often make my attacks a little to sharp, but I often feel I'm provoked first, maybe I'm wrong... |
Thinking you're right is fine, so long as you do so with respect of the right of others to disagree.
Originally posted by Russell2566:
I do know that as a minority here as far as politics go, my view is rarely respected... So tell me, for how long should I be disrespected for before I play with the same size ball? |
You started the attacks. Please show me where I attacked you anywhere in this thread.
-Terry
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05/27/2004 01:51:42 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Please show me where I attacked you anywhere in this thread. |
I'm not aware of you doing so, and I don't recall saying you did?
Edit:
I guess I view a lot of my comments as extremly harsh, but not personally and usualy deserved. The first harsh comment I made in this thread was the drawing inside the lines. I can see that it was probably over the top... I get frustrated with the changing of topics or bringing in arguments that have nothing to do with the point...
ACLU support Rush has nothing to do with a heavey anti-christian stance that they as a whole have shown. You tried to draw a line between the two....
I will work on my attacks and try to be more "nice " though!
Message edited by author 2004-05-27 01:55:13. |
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05/27/2004 01:52:44 AM · #60 |
You asked how long you should allow yourself to be disrespected before playing with the same size ball. I'm saying that I never showed you any disrespect, and yet you still attacked me.
-Terry
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05/27/2004 10:52:04 AM · #61 |
Just for clarification, what cross are they talking about? I don't see one.
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05/27/2004 11:47:42 AM · #62 |
This refers to the newer designed seal, around 1957 - maybe that's an old one ? (although that is the city seal - not the county)
The new one has pictures of holywood bowl with the cross hanging over it apparently.
The cross is in a panel with two stars above a depiction of the Hollywood Bowl. The Bowl was intended as a symbol of culture while one star represents film and the other television.
The panel is one of six around the seal's main figure, Pomona, a Roman goddess of fruits and trees representing the region's agriculture. Pomona is also the name of one of the county's earliest cities.
Edit :
Message edited by author 2004-05-27 11:49:21.
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05/27/2004 12:06:40 PM · #63 |
| Ahh, the orignal post mentioned city seal. |
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05/27/2004 12:08:38 PM · #64 |
If bad spelling is a measure of intelligent, then I guess I'm un-intelligent. Does math, science, success or logic have any bearing on ones intelligence? Or is it just spelling and political opinions.
I know great spellers that can't balance a checkbook. I can design an aircraft, but have problems spelling. I must be stupid. |
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05/27/2004 12:33:23 PM · #65 |
Hmmm. I wonder why the ACLU isn't contesting the use of Pomona, the Roman goddess ( how can a goddess not be considered religious? ) and the cow ( sacred to Hindu's ) in the L.A. County seal? Ben Wizner, an ACLU attorney says that they do not object to the Roman goddess or the name Los Angeles, which means âthe angels.â because to do so would push the issue to âextreme limits.â
Yeah, right.
Ron |
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05/27/2004 12:38:14 PM · #66 |
My bad, it's the LA County seal. Not the LA City seal. Anyhow, now that I looked at it I can see why the ACLU has a problem.
1. The cow is totally offensive to vegetarians.
2. The oil wells are offensive to environmentalists.
3. The fish is offensive to non-Christian vegetarians.
4. The boat is definitely offensive to anyone suffering from Hydrophobia.
5. The engineering instruments are definitely offensive to anyone suffering from Technophobia.
6. The Hollywood bowl is definitely offensive to rap music lovers everywhere.
But seriously, it's funny how the ACLU doesn't seem to have a problem with the Goddess Pomona located in the middle of the seal. It kind of leads me to believe that there's only a problem with certain religions. I've seen the LA County seal thousands of time and have honestly never noticed the cross. I certainly wasn't influenced or offended in any way. Lastly, if you read LA County's description of the seal, it read more like a history lesson then a Sunday school lesson.
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05/27/2004 12:49:54 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by louddog:
If bad spelling is a measure of intelligent, then I guess I'm un-intelligent. Does math, science, success or logic have any bearing on ones intelligence? Or is it just spelling and political opinions.
I know great spellers that can't balance a checkbook. I can design an aircraft, but have problems spelling. I must be stupid. |
Albert Einstein was three or four years old before he could speak and seven before he could read. He also had some trouble remembering his address. |
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05/27/2004 12:50:34 PM · #68 |
| It appears to me as well that the seal in question is depicting the relevant historical and current landmarks and features of the region. I would like to hear the ACLU's reasoning for going after this. |
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05/27/2004 01:19:07 PM · #69 |
what
i guess my concern with the ACLU is why do they spend so much time on defending one line in the bill of rights and not in the other, i.e. the right to bear arms. that's why i can't stand the aclu. they say they are for everyone but they obviously are driven by their own personal opinions [/quote]
Well said....
Message edited by author 2004-05-27 13:20:12. |
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05/27/2004 01:25:30 PM · #70 |
| i think its funny that people push so hard for keeping cultural differences alive around the world and despise the "americanization of culture" in other nations. the history behind the different cultures is what makes them unique, and religion of all kinds plays a big part in much of the local ceremonies and traditions. however, when it comes to acknowledging our own history, we want to pick and choose what we want to remember. what makes our cultural history so despised, while others so cherished? |
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05/27/2004 01:30:24 PM · #71 |
I think it's correct to be very careful about issues such as this (even if the ACLU is pushing the envelope here) because above all else, we want to maintain our democracy so that special interests do not get into the machinery of this country, which has already occurred to a large degree...especially with the corporate culture. I'm not saying that the ACLU is correct in this situation, but maybe they are pushing the issue to bring attention to the issue in general.
Originally posted by nborton:
i think its funny that people push so hard for keeping cultural differences alive around the world and despise the "americanization of culture" in other nations. the history behind the different cultures is what makes them unique, and religion of all kinds plays a big part in much of the local ceremonies and traditions. however, when it comes to acknowledging our own history, we want to pick and choose what we want to remember. what makes our cultural history so despised, while others so cherished? |
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05/27/2004 01:41:50 PM · #72 |
I would label the ACLU as nothing BUT special interest!
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05/27/2004 01:45:06 PM · #73 |
| Wow this is some subject.. I already spent way too much time following this thread but I can't stop. I am convinced that religion politics and sports will always end up with violations of TOS...but hey free speech..right??( only kidding, lets try to respect each other regardless of viewpoints.) What gets me however is even the supporters of the ACLU know when they are "pushing the envelope" and yet still offer their blind support. Decency, common sense and tolerance are what this country should be about. I think the ACLU does push its own right side agenda every chance it gets. Civil Liberty as long as it agrees with the political right agenda. It seems to me that the ACLU could pursue many other issues that truly trample on the rights of society rather than trying to legally make an attempt at striking reference to God in any form of government. (please wait a sec before responding, I need a sec to put on my flack jacket) |
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05/27/2004 01:58:43 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
[quote=Olyuzi]
The incline of the anti-christian movement by the left I'm sure matches nicely with the moral decline of this country! |
Right here is the crux of the matter. This line of thought is the main thing that drives a wedge between people of religious people and atheists. This idea is something I've heard espoused by many religious people (in person as well as hearsay).
Because I don't believe in God, my morals are less valid than theirs.
Various versions of Christianity interpret the word of God differently. Why would my morals, arrived at by the teachings of my parents and my experiences in this world, be any less valid than theirs? I don't sit around telling people that they are wrong to believe in God, but many of them have no problem telling me I'm going to Hell because of my beliefs. That is why religion needs to be left out of governing our country.
Morality, on the other hand, should be one of the most important factors in how our country is guided. Obviously, morality means different things to different people, but that's what this country is about. Including EVERYONE. Not making Christian morality the only belief set that counts. And that is NOT an attack on Christianity. It is an attack on people who assume that everyone who disagrees with them is a Christian hater.
I don't hate Christian, Muslims, Jews, Wicken, Buddhists or any religion. I applaud those that hold true to their faith AND respect others and their faiths as well.
drg
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05/27/2004 02:06:47 PM · #75 |
Here's an article from the ACLU about this issue, but it appears to be about a different city in California.
Article. |
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