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05/26/2015 11:35:29 AM · #1 |
While the SC/Admin determine if they want to add a checkbox for users to click indicating they want constructive comments on their photos, I suggest the following simple standard to allow this to be indicated, at least to those "in the know".
When you title your image add " [CCA]" to the end. This stands for "Constructive Comments Appreciated". While many voters won't initially have any idea what that means, those who have been part of this discussion will. Additionally the curious will come to the forums and perhaps ask or search and find this thread which will spell it out for them.
Example: "My Photo of Woody [CCA]"
Thoughts? |
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05/26/2015 11:40:52 AM · #2 |
| eh, i think that if i saw that in a title i'd be inclined to look for flaws and thus give a lower score. |
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05/26/2015 11:55:12 AM · #3 |
I imagine that most DPCers DO want comments, and only a few do not. Perhaps those NOT wanting comments should add a less obnoxious signal symbol such as an * at the end of their title. |
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05/26/2015 12:01:48 PM · #4 |
This isn't really a forum for whether people want comments, it's an attempt to help those advocating for a special checkbox users have been requesting saying "Hey, I know this is bad, it won't hurt my feelings if you tell me how to make it better."
Many of us just don't comment on glaringly obvious bad photos for whatever reason (hurting the person, etc.)
I stumbled into that conversation. I would probably never use this tag, however as a developer I simply found a way for people to communicate THEIR desire without a special checkbox.
In fact, it's probably better to start with something like this and then those people can see how effective it is (or isn't) rather than have something else coded that goes by the wayside. |
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05/26/2015 12:17:25 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
I imagine that most DPCers DO want comments, and only a few do not. Perhaps those NOT wanting comments should add a less obnoxious signal symbol such as an * at the end of their title. |
If we were to start indicating our wish in the title, then I agree with tanguera. I know that if I (ever finish my thesis and) enter a challenge in the future, I am likely to forget to add a sign/symbol to the title even if I really want feedback. I think it is more likely that people that DON'T want comments will remember to add a symbol. Also, the "damage" is likely to be smaller (in terms of numbers) if those who DON'T want comments forget to communicate their wish, than those who DO want comments, considering that the majority of DPCers do want feedback.
Message edited by author 2015-05-26 12:47:03. |
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05/26/2015 12:24:59 PM · #6 |
| It seems superfluous. I agree with tanguera. |
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05/26/2015 12:30:04 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by klkitchens:
This isn't really a forum for whether people want comments, it's an attempt to help those advocating for a special checkbox users have been requesting saying "Hey, I know this is bad, it won't hurt my feelings if you tell me how to make it better."
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dont we already have the critque club check box? if anyone wants an in depth critique they can get it there. the problem is getting people to do some critiques. |
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05/26/2015 01:50:30 PM · #8 |
The little * for those that don't want comments, is a great idea, I totally agree and love it.
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05/26/2015 02:23:42 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by jgirl57:
The little * for those that don't want comments, is a great idea, I totally agree and love it. |
it's not that some people don't want comments, it's that they don't want them unless it's a compliment. I've seen more than a few people who only check the "found helpful" box when its something nice. personally, i don't care if someone wants critique or not, I give it. If you don't want it you're on the wrong site imo. |
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05/26/2015 02:54:39 PM · #10 |
I'm still not convinced. I can easily see this becoming a situation where we have to add it if we want comments because that's human nature. It is far more useful to create a thread requesting feedback after rollover when you know the image tanked, than when entering when we think we have a ribbon contender.
Besides, the folks NOT wanting honest feedback are quite few, so an * communicating that attitude is far less intrusive than 20-30 titles with your anagram |
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05/26/2015 05:56:41 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by jgirl57:
The little * for those that don't want comments, is a great idea, I totally agree and love it. |
Originally posted by smardaz:
it's not that some people don't want comments, it's that they don't want them unless it's a compliment. I've seen more than a few people who only check the "found helpful" box when its something nice. personally, i don't care if someone wants critique or not, I give it. If you don't want it you're on the wrong site imo. |
Please speak for yourself....it's COMMENTING, not critiquing. There is a box to check to specifically have an image CRITIQUED. You're certainly welcome to become a member of the CC if you like AFAIK.Yes, a critique is a comment, but just because I don't want your critique doesn't mean I don't belong here.I want impressions, reactions, emotions.......I want to know that you liked it, hated it, that it did *nothing* for you. What I truly *DON'T* want is to be told how to "fix" my image. If I entered it, there are reasons for whatever I did that you may not understand, and I don't want anything more than the expression of what you felt.....or didn't. I realize that's a pipe dream, but I can also imagine that there others who enter their images exactly the way they wanted that don't really want to be told how to fix it either. Honestly, the comments that I have gotten over the years that have pleased me the most were ones that the commenter took the time to write out an in-depth comment describing the impression my image made on them.
It also puts undue pressure on newbies if they think they have to critique an image and don't feel qualified. We are *ALL* qualified to express our reaction, and how we felt about an image.
If someone has an image that they want help and feedback with, the absolute best way is to start a thread and ask for it. Then you can also have a discussion as well, and get more from it than just a challenge comment.
YMMV.....
Message edited by author 2015-05-26 17:58:07.
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05/26/2015 06:10:12 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by smardaz:
it's not that some people don't want comments, it's that they don't want them unless it's a compliment. I've seen more than a few people who only check the "found helpful" box when its something nice. personally, i don't care if someone wants critique or not, I give it. If you don't want it you're on the wrong site imo. |
Please speak for yourself....it's COMMENTING, not critiquing. There is a box to check to specifically have an image CRITIQUED. You're certainly welcome to become a member of the CC if you like AFAIK.Yes, a critique is a comment, but just because I don't want your critique doesn't mean I don't belong here.I want impressions, reactions, emotions.......I want to know that you liked it, hated it, that it did *nothing* for you. What I truly *DON'T* want is to be told how to "fix" my image. If I entered it, there are reasons for whatever I did that you may not understand, and I don't want anything more than the expression of what you felt.....or didn't. I realize that's a pipe dream, but I can also imagine that there others who enter their images exactly the way they wanted that don't really want to be told how to fix it either. Honestly, the comments that I have gotten over the years that have pleased me the most were ones that the commenter took the time to write out an in-depth comment describing the impression my image made on them.
It also puts undue pressure on newbies if they think they have to critique an image and don't feel qualified. We are *ALL* qualified to express our reaction, and how we felt about an image.
If someone has an image that they want help and feedback with, the absolute best way is to start a thread and ask for it. Then you can also have a discussion as well, and get more from it than just a challenge comment.
YMMV..... |
I was speaking for myself, thats why I added the "imo", and I often do give impressions and feelings in my comments and I often give a critique as to why I didn't like it so much because I believe it helps people grow. I will however broaden my statement, if you don't want criticism from people, then the internet is probably not the place to be posting your artwork. |
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05/26/2015 09:17:56 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
I was speaking for myself, thats why I added the "imo", and I often do give impressions and feelings in my comments and I often give a critique as to why I didn't like it so much because I believe it helps people grow. I will however broaden my statement, if you don't want criticism from people, then the internet is probably not the place to be posting your artwork. |
Sigh....
Truly, it's only attitudes like that I could do without. I prefer to interact with people who understand some basic sensibilities and decency rather than the "I'll do what I like, you don't like it, tough." kind of approach.
Yes, criticism is part of the 'Net experience, but it doesn't have to be within a community that, theoretically, works back and forth with each other to help each other grow and progress while making it a reasonably enjoyable environment.
Again, it is suggested that you COMMENT. Nowhere does it say critique. That's an all too oft made mistake. Especial;ly when you have no idea who's offering up the image and for what purpose.
But hey......what do I know?
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05/26/2015 10:14:26 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But hey......what do I know? |
Probably about as much as I do, you're more than welcome to peruse my comments and let me if I am displaying an attitude that lacks decency. I don't believe that it follows that if you offer someone some constructive criticism that you have some type of unwelcome attitude. If you go to the "About" section of the site it says the purpose of the site was two guys trying to teach each other to be better photographers, how else do you learn? |
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05/26/2015 10:35:10 PM · #15 |
In the voting phase all you can see is the image as entered. That's what you vote on.
IMO there isn't enough information available while in voting to make a technical critique useful. No XIF data. No photographers notes.
Plus I don't get the point of a technical critique anyway. What it is, is someone saying how they would've done the shot.
If only we could hope for Photoshop technical critiques, I could get excited about that. |
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05/27/2015 04:18:01 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
But hey......what do I know? |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Probably about as much as I do, you're more than welcome to peruse my comments and let me if I am displaying an attitude that lacks decency. I don't believe that it follows that if you offer someone some constructive criticism that you have some type of unwelcome attitude. If you go to the "About" section of the site it says the purpose of the site was two guys trying to teach each other to be better photographers, how else do you learn? |
I wasn't saying that your comments/critiques displayed an unwelcome attitude, it was this:
Originally posted by smardaz:
personally, i don't care if someone wants critique or not, I give it. If you don't want it you're on the wrong site imo. |
And as I said before, it's merely my preference to get comments related to impact on the viewer. I realize that your concept of what comments are supposed to be is much more typical than mine.
The constructive part is the debatable issue to me.....it's certainly NOT debatable when I get some comment saying that I shouldn't have used this or that technique.....when I didn't. Or if someone says that some insignifigant part of the image as a whole......is distracting. Maybe it is to them, but then again maybe they're so caught up in the minutiae they missed the point of the image.
I'm also not saying that these comments aren't offered with the best intentions.......simply that sometimes they're simply wrong, or they're NOT helpful. I do like this assessment:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
I don't get the point of a technical critique anyway. What it is, is someone saying how they would've done the shot. |
Exactly!
If that's what you want, terrific, but not for my interests. I am at a point in my photography journey that I pretty much have my own way of doing things that speaks of a specific style/technique for the image that I present. If I offer it up for review, it is composed & processed how I want it to be, or I wouldn't have entered it.
So, back to....my comments are based on impression from this viewer. IMNSHO, that is how you learn. When you get feedback from a viewer as to the impression that the image made on them, then you know whether or not you hit or missed the mark with what you were trying to convey with the image. And isn't that the point for you, the photog?
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05/27/2015 05:28:44 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by klkitchens:
This isn't really a forum for whether people want comments, it's an attempt to help those advocating for a special checkbox users have been requesting saying "Hey, I know this is bad, it won't hurt my feelings if you tell me how to make it better."
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dont we already have the critque club check box? if anyone wants an in depth critique they can get it there. the problem is getting people to do some critiques. |
I think I've had three bad reactions from my comments (at least as they have led to me receiving a PM) - one was as a result of a critique club request... |
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05/27/2015 10:01:45 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Paul:
I think I've had three bad reactions from my comments (at least as they have led to me receiving a PM) - one was as a result of a critique club request... |
That's just wrong!
If you specifically request a critique, you *must* be prepared to hear something you may not like. It should be assumed that you, the requestor, are unspokenly agreeing to release whomever critiques your image from repercussions should they not like what is said.
It's bad enough with the general concensus here that there aren't enough comments given, and part of that is backlash from what people didn't want to hear, without having to worry about that from a specific critique request.
I know every time I've gotten a commenmt from you it has always been spot-on and appreciated immensely.
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05/27/2015 10:04:21 AM · #19 |
I was rereading this thread and I don't think I differ at all in this thinking.
Originally posted by smardaz:
I often do give impressions and feelings in my comments and I often give a critique as to why I didn't like it so much because I believe it helps people grow. |
Other than making specific technical suggestions, which you don't state that you do, this is how I approach commenting.
Message edited by author 2015-05-27 10:06:57.
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05/27/2015 10:42:35 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Paul:
I think I've had three bad reactions from my comments (at least as they have led to me receiving a PM) - one was as a result of a critique club request... |
That's just wrong!
If you specifically request a critique, you *must* be prepared to hear something you may not like. It should be assumed that you, the requestor, are unspokenly agreeing to release whomever critiques your image from repercussions should they not like what is said.
It's bad enough with the general concensus here that there aren't enough comments given, and part of that is backlash from what people didn't want to hear, without having to worry about that from a specific critique request.
I know every time I've gotten a commenmt from you it has always been spot-on and appreciated immensely. |
I agree this is just terrible. (Double terrible from a user requested critique.) The longer I am here, the more I lean towards commenting only on my impressions of the image and how the image connected, or lacked connection, for me to the challenge topic. I personally am still interested in any critique - I sometimes forget to check the levelness of my horizon, and I seem to have a really hard time understanding proper exposure (or maybe it's just that I prefer images that are deliberately under or over-exposed?) but regardless anytime someone takes a few seconds to comment on my images I am truly grateful. But I get that the few rotten eggs kind of ruin the commenting experience. Apparently I've been lucky, the only PMs I have received for my comments have been very polite and appreciative. |
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05/27/2015 10:50:52 AM · #21 |
Maybe this isn't the thread to inquire, but I'd like to interject two short questions, if I may:
If one has checked the box asking for a critique, upon submission for a challenge, when can one expect to receive that critique?
How is that critique delivered? Via PM?
Sorry for interrupting. Thanks.
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05/27/2015 10:51:32 AM · #22 |
| Jeb, I totally understand where you're coming from, I think where we have to agree to disagree is when it comes to THIS site. In my opinion, let me emphasize, just my opinion, any other site is good for posting images where you only want impressions, thoughts, etc. Here, however, especially when it comes to posting in a challenge, you are asking people "Hey, I took a picture, tell me how I did on a scale of 1 to 10" I mean that just invites people to tell you how you could have done it better. Sure, you can only post to your portfolio but I still think that attitude spills over. |
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05/27/2015 10:52:24 AM · #23 |
| Now see I like having someone say how they would have done something differently. I invariably take a look (crop, exposure, comp, etc.) Sometimes I say to myself, "Nah . . . I like it the way I had it." Other times I say, "Wow, thanks! That does look better . . . or I would not have thought to do that" (in the case of editing suggestions) or "I'll have to remember to try that" (in the case of shooting and camera setting suggestions). What I always say to myself (and sometimes to the person who made the "critique") is, "Thank you! I appreciate your time and respect your opinion." What I never say to myself (or to anyone else) is, "What gives you the right to make that suggestion?" |
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05/27/2015 10:53:24 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Zita:
Maybe this isn't the thread to inquire, but I'd like to interject two short questions, if I may:
If one has checked the box asking for a critique, upon submission for a challenge, when can one expect to receive that critique?
How is that critique delivered? Via PM?
Sorry for interrupting. Thanks. |
LMAO, sometime between now and the end of time. I say this having been a member of the critique club for a short time. There are two pools of people wanting critiques, a small group from a current challenge and backlog of literally thousands that members can work on if they so choose. Oh, and they will just comment on the shot, usually letting you know it is a CC comment.
Message edited by author 2015-05-27 10:54:47. |
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05/27/2015 11:12:58 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
...sometime between now and the end of time. |
Well, that is discouraging. Thanx. |
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