dslr - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

05/24/2004 05:54:49 PM · #1

Well, like everyone else, I dream of dSLR. Besides the cost of the camera, I know lenses are a big investment. If i get a digital slr, i need a lens to shoot hockey. Ice and roller hockey, sometimes indoors with very poor lighting. Ive narrowed it down to two lenses, the sigma 70-200 2.8 APO HSM (799 at BH) and the canon f4L (549 at BH)

If I get a dslr one of these will definatly be the lens I get. The question is, is the 2.8 really worth amost 300 more than the f4? Also I hear the canon is shaper. Is this true?

blemt

Nikon D70

05/24/2004 06:25:12 PM · #2

Originally posted by hsteg:

Which body are you planning on getting? The dRebel will not be able to effectively capture the speed of a hockey game. The 10D is going to struggle. You will have to look at a very high end camera in the Canon line to get the responsiveness you want.

On the Nikon side, the D70 has the speed to get good sports captures. Next up would be the D2H.

In all cases, you need to make sure you go out and test the body you are looking at under the conditions you will shoot in. Don't miss this step or you end up with $1000 of paperweight. :)

There is no point in getting the low end Canon body to get the canon lens system if the body can't get the shots you want. Same goes for the Nikon. Most local (ie not Ritz) camera shops will let you rent bodies for a weekend of shooting.

Play around with it a bit. Have a blast!

Clara

timj351

Sony DSC-F707

05/24/2004 06:34:01 PM · #3

Originally posted by blemt:

Originally posted by hsteg:
Well, like everyone else, I dream of dSLR. Besides the cost of the camera, I know lenses are a big investment. If i get a digital slr, i need a lens to shoot hockey. Ice and roller hockey, sometimes indoors with very poor lighting. Ive narrowed it down to two lenses, the sigma 70-200 2.8 APO HSM (799 at BH) and the canon f4L (549 at BH)

If I get a dslr one of these will definatly be the lens I get. The question is, is the 2.8 really worth amost 300 more than the f4? Also I hear the canon is shaper. Is this true?

Which body are you planning on getting? The dRebel will not be able to effectively capture the speed of a hockey game. The 10D is going to struggle. You will have to look at a very high end camera in the Canon line to get the responsiveness you want.

On the Nikon side, the D70 has the speed to get good sports captures. Next up would be the D2H.

In all cases, you need to make sure you go out and test the body you are looking at under the conditions you will shoot in. Don't miss this step or you end up with $1000 of paperweight. :)

There is no point in getting the low end Canon body to get the canon lens system if the body can't get the shots you want. Same goes for the Nikon. Most local (ie not Ritz) camera shops will let you rent bodies for a weekend of shooting.

Play around with it a bit. Have a blast!

Clara

So, why do you say that the rebel cannot effectively capture the speed of a hockey game? It's shutter speed goes to 1/4000 and it's ISO goes up to 1600. It appears pretty sufficient to me.

T

Konador

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

05/24/2004 06:36:41 PM · #4

The "shots per second" isn't too high and the buffer fills quite quickly, maybe this is what blemt meant by speed?

05/24/2004 06:36:49 PM · #5

ive done it at 320 iso 200 with good results on my f717.

timj351

Sony DSC-F707

05/24/2004 06:53:18 PM · #6

Originally posted by Konador:

The "shots per second" isn't too high and the buffer fills quite quickly, maybe this is what blemt meant by speed?

That may be what she meant but the Rebel is still plenty fast enough for that scenario. 4 shots in about a second and a half is till very good and it only takes a very short time before you can fire away again. Just because the D70 is faster doesn't mean that the DRebel is not competant as well.

T

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

05/24/2004 08:27:12 PM · #7

lens bump

coolhar

05/24/2004 09:31:36 PM · #8

Hope it doesn't cause you to lose any sleep hsteg but not everyone dreams of a DSLR.

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

05/24/2004 09:42:09 PM · #9

What are you dreaming of, Coolhar? Do you want to replace your cam in the near future? I'm planning on putting mine up for sale some time this week on ebay but don't yet know what I'm going to replace it with. Do you have any other ideas beside a dslr?

Originally posted by coolhar:

Hope it doesn't cause you to lose any sleep hsteg but not everyone dreams of a DSLR.

coolhar

05/24/2004 10:53:37 PM · #10

I think your 2100 is a fine cam. I almost boought one but settled on my Pro 90 instead. My latest is an Minolta A1 I got last Jan. so I'm not really not in the market right now. I'm pleased with the A1 and will wait for a while before I get something else. Some that I have dreamed about in the past have been Oly E-20, Fuji S602 Pro, Panasonic FZ10. I'm not brand loyal, I've had 5 digicams from 5 different makers. If you are thinking of upgrading but don't want to make the jump to DSLR, I'd recommend the Oly 8080. But, if you are hooked on longer zoom like me, A1 & A2 have about everything you could ask for.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

05/24/2004 11:00:03 PM · #11

Actually, I've been eyeing the oly E20 because while it is a fixed lens it will probably give the closest thing to a dslr experience and it's built like a tank. Though the cam has limitation I'm willing to put up with them because most of my shooting is scenics, stills and hope to do portraits...perfect cam for this genre of photography. I'll probably pounce on it if the prices go down significantly.

crabappl3

05/24/2004 11:06:17 PM · #12

In either arena, nikon or canon, the faster the lens, the better off you'll be capturing indoor sports. I have shot indoor basketball at a junior high school level, and the lighting is very poor indeed. The f/2.8 70-200 I have still struggled to get a high enough frame rate to stop the action. In short, yes, the extra $ for the wider aperture is well worth the investment. If you were shooting wildlife outdoors and didn' need to have a frame rate that high, and could use a tripod, the the f/4 would make a great lens, but for your application, I recommend the f/2.8

blemt

Nikon D70

05/24/2004 11:44:49 PM · #13

Originally posted by Konador:

The "shots per second" isn't too high and the buffer fills quite quickly, maybe this is what blemt meant by speed?

Couple of things on the D70 v dRebel

Startup time D70=.01 seconds
dRebel= 3.1 seconds

Cycle Time D70= .06 seconds (uncompressed)
dRebel= 7.3 seconds (uncompressed)

Buffer Frames D70= 9 (max res)
dRebel= 4(max res)

Note: these numbers are only important for people looking at shooting sports. The dRebel is a very good camera for a variety of applications.
But as a hockey fan, I see several potential pitfalls in using that body. There are other sports it might work okay with, but not hockey.

If you want to shoot hockey and use Canon lenses, please make sure you test out the body you plan on using. Unless you are getting the 1D Mark II in which case this conversation is moot. :)

Again, all advice on the internet is free, so it's worth what you pay for it. :)

Clara

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

05/25/2004 12:15:24 AM · #14

Another issue to look at between Nikon and Canon are the availability of IS lenses. You probably won't be able to shoot with a tripod in an arena and if you're using telephoto lenses you will need some sort of stablization to prevent blur. See which company offers a greater variety of image stablized lenses. From what I hear Canon is the winner there.

crabappl3

05/25/2004 12:32:02 AM · #15

Nikon has 4 lenses that I know of with VR:

Zoom Telephoto AF VR Zoom Nikkor 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D ED Autofocus Lens (Vibration Reduction)

Older model, not Silent Wave motor, not a quick focusing lens

Zoom Telephoto AF VR Zoom Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8D G-AFS ED-IF Autofocus Lens (Vibration Reduction) - Black

Best telephoto zoom Nikon makes right now. Quick, silent and sharp!

Zoom Telephoto AF Zoom Nikkor 200-400mm f/4 G-AFS ED-IF VR (Vibration Reduction) Autofocus Lens

If you have $5600 burning a hole in your pocket, then this pro-level lens will get your right up on the action! Heavy and large, but a very nice looking lens

Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto AF Zoom Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR Autofocus Lens

Looked at one of these, but didn't see an advantage of VR at this zoom range. Silent and fast, but is it worth the extra money?

On a side note, Sigma has just released a 80-400 OS lens available for the Nikon mount. So while Nikon may not have as many VR lenses as Canon, they do have the zoom ranges covered nicely.

-danny

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

ellamay

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

05/25/2004 12:38:34 AM · #16

I have to agree that the speed of the rebel is SLOW, it also effects shooting birds in flight, if a bird passes me by I am lucky to get 3 shots before it is gone. quite lucky only one with the light the way i want. (hence still waiting mark II) but does not just effect sports.

Adrian Tung

Canon EOS-10D

05/25/2004 12:51:33 AM · #17

If you're going for the rebel, another issue is that the feature set which is useful for sports is crippled:

"Ideally", you'd want to use AI Servo focusing in order to track the moving subject, but you cannot manually set this on the 300D. So there are three alternatives -

i) You can use the dummy Sports Mode, but AFAIK the ISO is crippled to ISO400 maximum, which may not be fast enough for indoor sports at f/2.8

ii) You can stick to the Creative Zones (Av or Tv), and try to work with the 300D's AI Focus mode, which isn't 100% reliable at best.

iii) You can use manual focusing and all the basic prosumer digicam tricks (e.g. prefocus on a spot and wait for the action), but again indoors at f/2.8, DOF can be very shallow so make sure your manual focusing skills are up to the standard.

Just my 2 cents on the 300D for sports...

:)atwl

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

05/25/2004 12:52:13 AM · #18

Harrison...I would not really be so concerned about frame rates at this time because it doesn't seem like you have alot of money to burn and with an upgrade to a dslr you're going to be shelling out lots as it is...With high frame rates you're going to be going through probably 3 or 4 256mb memory cards, which is going to considerably add to the cost of your investment. I would concentrate on getting a fast and long lense. Shooting hockey you won't be so far from the action, unless you're up in the nosebleed seats...lol, that you will need anything more than a 200mm. Just position yourself by the blue line, if that's possible so you can access both zones from one place, and you should be fine with that 200mm 2.8 lens.

Message edited by author 2004-05-25 00:53:01.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

05/25/2004 12:58:57 AM · #19

What is your budget? If money is not a factor then you can't beat the EOS 1D Mark II at 8.5 frames/sec for bursts of 40 shots...Or you can try getting a second hand 1D, lots of them are appearing on eBay since the release of the 1D Mark II.

pitsaman

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

05/25/2004 01:05:40 AM · #20

Rebel with 7 points AF which all can be active and 200 mm F 2.8 lens at 800 ISO is plenty for any sports ,no worries :-)

Message edited by author 2004-05-25 01:11:56.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

05/25/2004 01:12:56 AM · #21

Quick everybody pony up some funds to send Pedro to the Stanley Cup so he can try both the N70 and the Rebel :P

Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM

05/25/2004 12:22:45 PM · #22

well, i looked at those 4 nikon lenses posted before and those were way to expensive. Ive also looked for used 1d's but those are too expensive as well.

if anyone is reading this, and wants to get rid of their 1d, please PM me.

Message edited by author 2004-05-25 12:26:58.

dadas115

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

05/25/2004 01:22:49 PM · #23

Actually the rebel will let you shoot two 4 shot bursts in rapid succession. I agree that the D70 is a faster camera but I think it is foolish to say that you canâ��t capture great sports images with a Digital Rebel. I think it will be easier with a D70 so donâ��t get me wrong. I have been able to get plenty of very nice action shots with my Rebel and its 2.5 FPS and 4 shot bursts. The startup time isnâ��t really an issue for me either because I have the camera always on. A couple of weeks ago I was out shooting with my Rebel from ~7am until 8pm pretty much non-stop and took over 2200 images, most of them action shots. The camera was only turned off a couple of times for a few seconds to change batteries. Three batteries lasted me the entire day and two of the batteries were generic ones that I bought on Ebay for $7.95 each.

As far as the lens is concerned I believe that makes a much larger difference than the body. For sports I would go with the Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 over the 70-200mm f/4L without thinking twice.

Greg

Originally posted by blemt:

Originally posted by Konador:
The "shots per second" isn't too high and the buffer fills quite quickly, maybe this is what blemt meant by speed?

Couple of things on the D70 v dRebel

Startup time D70=.01 seconds
dRebel= 3.1 seconds

Cycle Time D70= .06 seconds (uncompressed)
dRebel= 7.3 seconds (uncompressed)

Buffer Frames D70= 9 (max res)
dRebel= 4(max res)

Note: these numbers are only important for people looking at shooting sports. The dRebel is a very good camera for a variety of applications.
But as a hockey fan, I see several potential pitfalls in using that body. There are other sports it might work okay with, but not hockey.

If you want to shoot hockey and use Canon lenses, please make sure you test out the body you plan on using. Unless you are getting the 1D Mark II in which case this conversation is moot. :)

Again, all advice on the internet is free, so it's worth what you pay for it. :)

Clara

dadas115

Canon EOS-1000D Rebel XS

Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM

05/25/2004 01:24:56 PM · #24

Generally for sports/action photography IS is pretty useless.

Greg

Originally posted by Olyuzi:

PaulMdx

Canon EOS-1D