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03/07/2015 10:35:53 PM · #1 |
I know at times there have been some alternative methods to photography displayed here that have been very well received. There have been techniques that have been a little to the 'something' of center that have also been well received. But sometimes these come at a cost - recognition. I am exploring a new avenue of photography that I am afraid, no matter how good or bad I am at it, will identify myself after one or two challenges. I am not sure there is a way to avoid this as the 'style' is quite unique. But I feel stifled with my aging equipment and lack of ability to create the vision and view I want. I have newly purchased equipment that will allow me to view the perspective I want and create the vision I think I see in my head. However, in light of recent events and discussions here, I feel it would be better not to pursue testing the results of this style in challenges. This disappoints me greatly. Especially since my first attempt ever produced results far beyond my expectations.
The damage to confidence in the 'system' a single cheater (or two) can do.
There is another site I can participate in that caters to this 'style', but as it was when I started here, the people there make me look like less than zero. Another long learning curve ahead.
Just thought I would share some of the 'backlash'. |
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03/07/2015 10:41:20 PM · #2 |
| I wouldn't worry about it - the majority of people will vote their opinion of the photo as it pertains to the challenge, not colored by their opinion of the photographer even if they know 'who dun it'. |
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03/07/2015 10:58:33 PM · #3 |
| I definitely want to see this new stuff you are up to. I really think there is enough latitude here for just about anything. |
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03/07/2015 11:04:28 PM · #4 |
| That seems a little strange a thing to worry about to me. There's any number of folks on DPC whose work is very recognizable, and this certainly hasn't been at issue in these recent threads you refer to. In other words, the trouble, such as it is, lies with the voters, not the creators. It's not your problem. Just go and create whatever you are moved to do, and let the chips fall where they may. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what you're up to. |
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03/07/2015 11:40:49 PM · #5 |
Well, it sounds like a teaser to me. My interest is piqued; now I look forward to your creations.
One of the best features at DPC is that challenges are not the only venue. Creativity can be rewarded in other ways, and you really have an interested audience here. Do it! |
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03/07/2015 11:50:41 PM · #6 |
Isn't that what dpc is about is doing your own style and do things your way. .
I shoot what I love and like.
This reminds me of...what will others think of me kinda thing.
Do it! Go for it I would love to see this new style of yours.
I believe if you can't show yourself off why even mess with it.
Look forward into seeing it.
Inspire us!
You've peeked my interest
Message edited by author 2015-03-07 23:53:22. |
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03/07/2015 11:54:20 PM · #7 |
I won a couple of ribbons doing this sort of thing..
It caused enough controversy that I abandoned the technique after the second ribbon, and haven't shot one like that since.
Message edited by author 2015-03-07 23:58:08. |
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03/08/2015 01:48:10 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by Cory:
I won a couple of ribbons doing this sort of thing..
It caused enough controversy that I abandoned the technique after the second ribbon, and haven't shot one like that since. |
You would be diminished in my estimation if you really abandoned experimental photography, or any kind of photography, simply because it was controversial. If it gave you no satisfaction, then fair enough; give it up. But when were you ever a stranger to controversy? You're a splendid anarchist in so many ways (which is why you'd still have quite a way to fall in my estimation). DPC needs anarchists in the challenges as well as in the forums, Cory. In fact, more so. There has to be a counterpoint to the formulaic, populist mush that so often results from the intentional avoidance of controversy.
Let's talk art. Art without controversy is not art at all. Or if it is, it's Pollyanna art, and that's not art either.
Craft, photographic craft, is another matter of course. But I'd be surprised if you settled for that. It'd be like Rafa Nadal serving underhand; technically it's probably still a serve but not as much fun to watch.
Message edited by author 2015-03-08 01:59:14. |
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03/08/2015 04:40:06 AM · #9 |
Well if you have a style and it is great scores that you are looking for, the recipe is as follows: always submit a photo that has no negative emotion linked to it, nothing that would force the voter to go deeper than "oh that's beautiful". Never completely reveal yourself in the forums, watch to see which direction other well liked members go, then follow. Send loads of shallow "loved that photo and your so talented" PM's to your ever enlarging group of friends. That's how this place functions and its been like that for a while now.
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
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03/08/2015 05:00:39 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Cory:
I won a couple of ribbons doing this sort of thing..
It caused enough controversy that I abandoned the technique after the second ribbon, and haven't shot one like that since. |
Give it another go, I thought these were much more than intresting. |
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03/08/2015 07:36:41 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Let's talk art. Art without controversy is not art at all. Or if it is, it's Pollyanna art, and that's not art either. |
This statement could use expanding on :-)
For instance, controversy at what point in time? Controversy of what SORT? and so forth. Assume a hypothetical Old Master who was revered in his time and placed in the Pantheon, where he remains to this day. There was no controversy appended to him, so he didn't make "art"? And if we disputed his right to be IN the pantheon today, would that not be controversy and would not his work suddenly BE "art" by this standard?
I know that's absurd, but it follows from the bare bones of what you say. So can you go into more detail re: the role of controversy in the making of art, as you see it? |
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03/08/2015 07:46:58 PM · #12 |
I think a lot of the "controversy" on DPC stems from trying to categorize images as either "art", or not. Not everyone is aiming for the same goal. This is not necessarily an "artistic" site, although it is ALSO an "artistic" site. Some of us are drawn to creating images that provoke questions, experiment with unusual techniques, etc. Others are drawn to a different aesthetic, valuing clarity, color, etc. Some of us are here to play; others are here to keep fresh because photography is their job. There is no right or wrong - it just depends on what our goals, usages, etc. are.
For me the trouble starts when we start disparaging each other's styles, motivations, techniques. It would be far better if we could learn to appreciate each other's efforts, and appraise them as what they are, rather than to tear them down and vilify them for what they're not.
No, I'm not saying we should only say nice things. |
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03/08/2015 07:56:36 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Well if you have a style and it is great scores that you are looking for, the recipe is as follows: always submit a photo that has no negative emotion linked to it, nothing that would force the voter to go deeper than "oh that's beautiful". Never completely reveal yourself in the forums, watch to see which direction other well liked members go, then follow. Send loads of shallow "loved that photo and your so talented" PM's to your ever enlarging group of friends. That's how this place functions and its been like that for a while now.
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
+ twelvety bazillion |
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03/08/2015 08:55:51 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by jagar:
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
I am already not popular...
My scores have never been great...
Integrity is important, happiness is as well, but integrity is proven, happiness is 'felt' or 'perceived'
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03/08/2015 08:56:18 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Well if you have a style and it is great scores that you are looking for, the recipe is as follows: always submit a photo that has no negative emotion linked to it, nothing that would force the voter to go deeper than "oh that's beautiful". Never completely reveal yourself in the forums, watch to see which direction other well liked members go, then follow. Send loads of shallow "loved that photo and your so talented" PM's to your ever enlarging group of friends. That's how this place functions and its been like that for a while now.
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
Gack -- each time I read this it sounds more and more condescending.
Sorry guys. Why does it always have to work out that if you happen to like a particular style that's popular, that you've lost your integrity.
During the Art challenge, I STILL questioned what is and isn't art.
The majority of National Geographic, I don't find art. I find it extremely good photojournalism, realism, whatever you want to call it. But what the heck is wrong with wanting to show the world what you see?
I can't see it any other way than I see it! I try to be creative. I try to have some sort of imagination.
But I'm sorry -- I'm tired of the crap that goes with enjoying what I enjoy. Why can't I explore what I enjoy exploring and still keep my integrity?
Is it art? No. Do you have to like it? No. But I'm so sick of the fact that my work is a piece of crap because at times it's popular and wins something. Most of the time, I'm putting all I have into it. I'm sorry it's not enough.
Too bad I can't be happy and keep my integrity.
Sorry. It's another dead horse of which I'm sick.
Message edited by author 2015-03-08 21:02:31. |
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03/08/2015 09:11:26 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by jagar:
Well if you have a style and it is great scores that you are looking for, the recipe is as follows: always submit a photo that has no negative emotion linked to it, nothing that would force the voter to go deeper than "oh that's beautiful". Never completely reveal yourself in the forums, watch to see which direction other well liked members go, then follow. Send loads of shallow "loved that photo and your so talented" PM's to your ever enlarging group of friends. That's how this place functions and its been like that for a while now.
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
Gack -- each time I read this it sounds more and more condescending.
Sorry guys. Why does it always have to work out that if you happen to like a particular style that's popular, that you've lost your integrity.
During the Art challenge, I STILL questioned what is and isn't art.
The majority of National Geographic, I don't find art. I find it extremely good photojournalism, realism, whatever you want to call it. But what the heck is wrong with wanting to show the world what you see?
I can't see it any other way than I see it! I try to be creative. I try to have some sort of imagination.
But I'm sorry -- I'm tired of the crap that goes with enjoying what I enjoy. Why can't I explore what I enjoy exploring and still keep my integrity?
Is it art? No. Do you have to like it? No. But I'm so sick of the fact that my work is a piece of crap because at times it's popular and wins something. Most of the time, I'm putting all I have into it. I'm sorry it's not enough.
Too bad I can't be happy and keep my integrity.
Sorry. It's another dead horse of which I'm sick. |
I'm grinning thru the tears. I think we all feel just like this at one moment or another, from the most photojournalistic to the most OOB.
[eta]
On the other hand, it's possible to give too much of a hoot for what others think. Artists learn early to focus on the inner demons, they're the only ones that count.
[eta]2
So many artists have crashed burned after achieving recognition that it's now a bona fide cliche.
Message edited by author 2015-03-08 21:36:50. |
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03/08/2015 09:16:01 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by CEJ:
The damage to confidence in the 'system' a single cheater (or two) can do.
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I fail to see how the cheater(s) caused this problem. |
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03/08/2015 09:24:42 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Why does it always have to work out that if you happen to like a particular style that's popular, that you've lost your integrity. |
It doesn't. Jagar's own portfolio and scoring history disproves his point. |
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03/08/2015 09:33:30 PM · #19 |
There is one person on this site, whose work I recognize frequently. It really is because I have been a guest in their home, several times, and recognize the settings and family.
When I come across these I take and extra moment to be sure I am voting on the image alone. Other than that, nothing changes. |
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03/08/2015 09:43:04 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Sorry. It's another dead horse of which I'm sick. |
I'm grinning thru the tears. I think we all feel just like this at one moment or another, from the most photojournalistic to the most OOB.
[eta]
On the other hand, it's possible to give too much of a hoot for what others think. Artists learn early to focus on the inner demons, they're the only ones that count. |
So true. IMO, art is such a personal thing.. both the definition and the deliverance. Today, art can only be defined by what we know (or feel), but tomorrow that definition is likely to expand. One thing art never is, though, is static. One can work really really hard at doing what was done before but it takes just as much or more discipline to learn from what has already been done and go forth and explore new ground. |
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03/08/2015 10:43:35 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Well if you have a style and it is great scores that you are looking for, the recipe is as follows: always submit a photo that has no negative emotion linked to it, nothing that would force the voter to go deeper than "oh that's beautiful". Never completely reveal yourself in the forums, watch to see which direction other well liked members go, then follow. Send loads of shallow "loved that photo and your so talented" PM's to your ever enlarging group of friends. That's how this place functions and its been like that for a while now.
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
this seems like such a strange statement when you have won so many ribbons here. I can't a read on you man, sometimes I think you're a cranky old man like me and other times I think you're just a troll-extraordinaire.....Either way, keep entertaining me. |
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03/09/2015 01:13:08 AM · #22 |
| I'm very much looking forward to seeing what you're playing around with, Mr. Mind. And I wouldn't worry about becoming uniquely identifiable and being the recipient of low scores. I'll likely copy your style after your first entry and that's the end of that. |
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03/09/2015 02:04:07 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by ubique:
Let's talk art. Art without controversy is not art at all. Or if it is, it's Pollyanna art, and that's not art either. |
This statement could use expanding on :-)
... |
No, it couldn't. It's like Samson's hair: its power derives from the glorious sweep of it.
Edit for errant apostrophe.
Message edited by author 2015-03-09 02:25:21. |
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03/09/2015 02:29:50 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by jagar:
Well if you have a style and it is great scores that you are looking for, the recipe is as follows: always submit a photo that has no negative emotion linked to it, nothing that would force the voter to go deeper than "oh that's beautiful". Never completely reveal yourself in the forums, watch to see which direction other well liked members go, then follow. Send loads of shallow "loved that photo and your so talented" PM's to your ever enlarging group of friends. That's how this place functions and its been like that for a while now.
If on the other hand you would really like to go deeper with your photography and explore your inner creativity do as you wish, you won't be popular and your scores might not be great, you'll be happier though and you also get to keep your integrity. |
Gack -- each time I read this it sounds more and more condescending.
Sorry guys. Why does it always have to work out that if you happen to like a particular style that's popular, that you've lost your integrity.
During the Art challenge, I STILL questioned what is and isn't art.
The majority of National Geographic, I don't find art. I find it extremely good photojournalism, realism, whatever you want to call it. But what the heck is wrong with wanting to show the world what you see?
I can't see it any other way than I see it! I try to be creative. I try to have some sort of imagination.
But I'm sorry -- I'm tired of the crap that goes with enjoying what I enjoy. Why can't I explore what I enjoy exploring and still keep my integrity?
Is it art? No. Do you have to like it? No. But I'm so sick of the fact that my work is a piece of crap because at times it's popular and wins something. Most of the time, I'm putting all I have into it. I'm sorry it's not enough.
Too bad I can't be happy and keep my integrity.
Sorry. It's another dead horse of which I'm sick. |
I never mentioned what is art or not, that is a personal thing and what is for me might not be for you.
If the images you like are the type that do well here, the good feeling, happy perfecty executed type and you say what you feel in the forums even if the majority feel otherwise, then yes you are keeping your integrity. If you only take pictures you feel will score well because you feel they will score well and if you are never outspoken in the forums because you may be perceived negatively, then no you aren't keeping your integrity. We are the only ones who can answer these questions, I used to really believe I was in the second example when in fact I was in the first. |
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03/09/2015 03:27:40 AM · #25 |
| I love it when ribbon winners complain. |
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