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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Pope Francis advocates violent response to words
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 86, (reverse)
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 01/15/2015 08:45:39 PM · #26
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!


Who is this we you speak of? Certainly not the church.


Me 'n' Voltaire, of course.
 01/15/2015 11:50:24 PM · #27
Originally posted by Spork99:

...But the killings in Paris weren't in the name of God, it was Allah the terrorists were praising.


You do know what Allah means right?

Ray
 01/15/2015 11:51:47 PM · #28
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!


Who is this we you speak of? Certainly not the church.


Me 'n' Voltaire, of course.


Voltaire did NOT say that.

Ray
 01/15/2015 11:58:53 PM · #29
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!


Who is this we you speak of? Certainly not the church.


Me 'n' Voltaire, of course.


Voltaire did NOT say that.

Ray

Yup. It was Evelyn Beatrice Hall.
 01/16/2015 12:38:49 AM · #30
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!


Who is this we you speak of? Certainly not the church.


Me 'n' Voltaire, of course.


Voltaire did NOT say that.

Ray


Whatever, Ray. In the context of an Internet conversation Voltaire certainly did say it. The reference is much more poignant than if I said it was me and somebody Bear looked up on google. I could care less! ;)

Message edited by author 2015-01-16 00:43:33.
 01/16/2015 12:52:34 AM · #31
naughty, naughty, not to care.
 01/16/2015 12:59:51 AM · #32
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...and somebody Bear looked up on google. I could care less! ;)

I didn't look it up on Google, I've known it for many years. It's one of the most commonly mis-attributed quotations of all time. YOU may not care, but don't go all snarky on ME because I do. :-(
 01/16/2015 01:04:42 AM · #33
I believe you! ;)

I knew very well it is misattributed to Voltaire, though previously I had been blissfully unaware of who did say it, but the point is the quote reference would have been lost on everybody but you! Sometimes such a thing doesn't matter.
 01/16/2015 01:23:30 AM · #34
that is manifestly not true. not only did Bear and I and probably several others here know it, but anybody who has been following the Charlie Hebdo story could have seen the correction of the misattribution to Voltaire.

why is it so hard to say you were wrong, especially if you think it does not matter? it is very annoying.
 01/16/2015 01:35:42 AM · #35
I honestly did know it was a misattribute. I honestly don't know who EBH is. I honestly think Bear knows almost everything.

I also honestly know the controversy over saying "I could care less!" I found that too delicious to pass up. :)
 01/16/2015 01:52:29 AM · #36
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I believe you! ;)

I knew very well it is misattributed to Voltaire, though previously I had been blissfully unaware of who did say it, but the point is the quote reference would have been lost on everybody but you! Sometimes such a thing doesn't matter.


???
 01/16/2015 03:47:16 AM · #37
Shame on the Pope to show violence.
Whole my childhood I was raised with the Christian belief of what is good and bad.
I cannot believe it to see these images of the Pope punching someone's face. WHAT A BAD ATTITUDE. In other words he's telling everyone, what those extremists did was justified ..... ??????!!!
01/16/2015 06:23:25 AM · #38
you have heard about the leopard?
his spots?
so dont be confused
01/16/2015 09:14:36 AM · #39
Personally, i would love to be punched in the face by the Pope. Definitely something to tell the grandkids.
 01/16/2015 09:24:43 AM · #40
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
And we defend your right to say so Cory! It may be the opinion of the ultra-cynic unsophisticate faction, but you, sir, have the right!


Who is this we you speak of? Certainly not the church.


Me 'n' Voltaire, of course.


Voltaire did NOT say that.

Ray

Right. Voltaire was the guy who wrote that commencement speech about sunblock.
 01/16/2015 09:59:22 AM · #41
I must defend the Doc here. Surely EBH said it of Voltaire? As a characterisation of his attitude on the question of Helvétius. Which would make the reference to it made by Doc more meaningful and legitimate than if he had more pedantically said, "me n' EBH" in his remark. In context, he was invoking Voltaire, and not his biographer.

ETA: his biographer, when she said it, was also invoking Voltaire. She even put the sentiment into mock quotes, on Voltaire's behalf. I think this may actually qualify as one of the most commonly misattributed misattributions.

Message edited by author 2015-01-16 10:21:28.
 01/16/2015 10:15:49 AM · #42
On the other hand, Doc, I strenuously disagree with your use of the expression "I could care less" and I will fight to the death to prevent your ever doing so again :)
 01/16/2015 11:17:40 AM · #43
Originally posted by ubique:
On the other hand, Doc, I strenuously disagree with your use of the expression "I could care less" and I will fight to the death to prevent your ever doing so again :)


That made me laugh. :)

Apparently, there are educated people who have little else to do who will make articulate arguments that "I couldn't care less" and "I could care less" now mean the same thing. I've always been the former, but I like to pull out the latter when we are getting pedantic. I'll have to see if I can find an essay I read on Zite about the whole kerfuffle.

EDIT: I'm not positive this is the actual essay I read, but it will do: In defense of 'I could care less'

Message edited by author 2015-01-16 11:19:25.
 01/16/2015 12:00:41 PM · #44
Originally posted by bohemka:

Right. Voltaire was the guy who wrote that commencement speech about sunblock.


now THAT was funny
 01/16/2015 12:54:18 PM · #45
Just a reminder of how serious this really is folks. A man will die for his words if this isn't stopped, many already have died for their words, and the Christians are not free from guilt, though I know you would like to be, one of your leaders (like it or not the Pope is Christian...) just chose this time to reassert that the church still feels that physical responses to words are appropriate. Once you travel down that path a foot, you may as well travel the road all the way to it's end.

The problem is simple, if you accept belief as a justification for ANYTHING, you must accept it as a justification for EVERYTHING, therefore I reject the justification summarily. Have your faith, and eat it too if you wish, but if you feel you are compelled to act based on faith/belief/commandments from god himself/etc, then you have a serious epistemological issue.

Message edited by author 2015-01-16 12:55:06.
 01/16/2015 01:03:04 PM · #46
No, I just reject that all Cory. I won't argue because it's impossible to do so with the ultracynic. No matter what I say you will either say I am saying it out of a self-interested position (and thus view whatever as invalid) or you will say I am too blind to see the self-interested motivation of others. It is a steel cage that is impossible to penetrate, but, ironically, also impossible to escape.

I'm quite sure the Pope is Christian. It would be odd if he wasn't. I'm also quite sure this Pope has a life's worth of action that speaks to his concern for the poor and downtrodden as well as one of peace and reconciliation. Squinting my eyes until I see a call for violence is, really, inane.
 01/16/2015 01:12:06 PM · #47
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
No, I just reject that all Cory. I won't argue because it's impossible to do so with the ultracynic. No matter what I say you will either say I am saying it out of a self-interested position (and thus view whatever as invalid) or you will say I am too blind to see the self-interested motivation of others. It is a steel cage that is impossible to penetrate, but, ironically, also impossible to escape.

I'm quite sure the Pope is Christian. It would be odd if he wasn't. I'm also quite sure this Pope has a life's worth of action that speaks to his concern for the poor and downtrodden as well as one of peace and reconciliation. Squinting my eyes until I see a call for violence is, really, inane.


I bet Soheil Arabi wishes he could just reject all that.
 01/16/2015 01:18:38 PM · #48
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
No, I just reject that all Cory. I won't argue because it's impossible to do so with the ultracynic. No matter what I say you will either say I am saying it out of a self-interested position (and thus view whatever as invalid) or you will say I am too blind to see the self-interested motivation of others. It is a steel cage that is impossible to penetrate, but, ironically, also impossible to escape.

I'm quite sure the Pope is Christian. It would be odd if he wasn't. I'm also quite sure this Pope has a life's worth of action that speaks to his concern for the poor and downtrodden as well as one of peace and reconciliation. Squinting my eyes until I see a call for violence is, really, inane.


I bet Soheil Arabi wishes he could just reject all that.


I bet so too, but what does that have to do with the Pope? Nothing.
 01/16/2015 01:19:18 PM · #49
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I believe you! ;)

I knew very well it is misattributed to Voltaire, though previously I had been blissfully unaware of who did say it, but the point is the quote reference would have been lost on everybody but you! Sometimes such a thing doesn't matter.


I was helping my 9 year old do his homework last night and he is being taught in school that Voltaire said it.
If I remember I'll take a picture of it tonight on post it.
If anyone was asked this question on a game show with big bucks on the line you would all say Voltaire.

Message edited by author 2015-01-16 14:47:50.
 01/16/2015 01:40:20 PM · #50
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
No, I just reject that all Cory. I won't argue because it's impossible to do so with the ultracynic. No matter what I say you will either say I am saying it out of a self-interested position (and thus view whatever as invalid) or you will say I am too blind to see the self-interested motivation of others. It is a steel cage that is impossible to penetrate, but, ironically, also impossible to escape.

I'm quite sure the Pope is Christian. It would be odd if he wasn't. I'm also quite sure this Pope has a life's worth of action that speaks to his concern for the poor and downtrodden as well as one of peace and reconciliation. Squinting my eyes until I see a call for violence is, really, inane.


I bet Soheil Arabi wishes he could just reject all that.


I bet so too, but what does that have to do with the Pope? Nothing.


Well, as much as I hate to repeat myself:

The problem is simple, if you accept belief as a justification for ANYTHING, you must accept it as a justification for EVERYTHING, therefore I reject the justification summarily. Have your faith, and eat it too if you wish, but if you feel you are compelled to act based on faith/belief/commandments from god himself/etc, then you have a serious epistemological issue.

--

Broken down a bit more, that means that since the Pope is one of the purveyors of this whole religion thingy, and this religion thingy tends to be kinda unpredictable in so far as what God might require one to do, or not do. Add to this the general acceptance of psychotic episodes as 'divine guidance' (hearing voices is a bad thing guys, not god, not good, not good at all.) so basically what I'm saying is that the Pope is another leg of the table upon which stands this thing called "religion" or "faith". And upon that table innumerable atrocities have been committed. It is this man's opinion that we need to just replace the entire table, actually, replace is a bit of the wrong idea, what I really mean is that we need to choose another table, one that doesn't occasionally catch afire randomly, one that has a set of rules which can be debated via some sort of mechanism that would allow examination of claims, and perhaps give some possibility of real progress and genuine agreement. This whole idea of believing things with conviction based on nothing more than a very old book of questionable provenance, or even worse, personal 'experience', has, frankly, had it's run. It was a good run, but it's time for something more practical. I guess in that respect, the 'table' of faith is a bit like the wire-spool and cinderblock furniture I had when I was in college, it worked fine at the time, but it eventually proved impractical for my needs.
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