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01/12/2015 03:06:26 PM · #26 |
Yeahhh I think the concept is sold then!
I am glad I am not the only that has been confused by this concept, now time to shoot something better and thank you Jon for your input as well
Message edited by author 2015-01-12 15:08:50. |
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01/12/2015 03:09:28 PM · #27 |
Figure 4 was a frequent exercise in my drawing classes.
I often wondered if photographers here had a different concept of negative space.
:)
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Look at Fig. 4 of the stool and his caption.
"The negative space is masked in black. See how the negative space exists as objects that define the stool. In fact you can draw the stool simply by drawing the negative spaces alone!" |
Thanks Don this helps alot.
I think I'm starting to understand. |
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01/12/2015 04:39:19 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by jgirl57:
I did find a blog when I was trying to get examples and learn from it
Negative space |
That article is excellent. I read the whole thing. Excellent. I know the usefulness of viewing the composition upside-down and/or backwards.
Message edited by author 2015-01-12 16:46:00. |
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01/12/2015 07:07:08 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Look at Fig. 4 of the stool and his caption.
"The negative space is masked in black. See how the negative space exists as objects that define the stool. In fact you can draw the stool simply by drawing the negative spaces alone!" |
Isn't that true about any silhouette? |
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01/12/2015 07:40:16 PM · #30 |
| If we're going to go by your definition, Don, this is perhaps the most popular depiction of "negative space". To me this, and the stool example, seem equally limiting, in a different way. |
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01/12/2015 07:46:51 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
If we're going to go by your definition, Don, this is perhaps the most popular depiction of "negative space". To me this, and the stool example, seem equally limiting, in a different way. |
Actually, that always has been a clever use of negative space. The stool shows that negative space isn't always interesting, imo. It's when the negative space is a surprise that makes it noteworthy. Otherwise, it's just there the majority of the time. |
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01/12/2015 08:05:29 PM · #32 |
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01/12/2015 08:07:59 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by soup:
photograph a stool.
:) |
I'll need a stool sample. :p |
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01/12/2015 08:12:25 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by nygold:
Originally posted by soup:
photograph a stool.
:) |
I'll need a stool sample. :p |
If you aren't able to obtain one within three days you should see your doctor ... ;-) |
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01/12/2015 08:29:28 PM · #35 |
I completely reject the lame and stereotypical definitions of "negative space". What happened to artistic interpretation? It is always an insult to have the challenge description narrowed to a much tinier slice of the world than originally intended. But, that often happens. People's votes are influenced by this process of defining and limiting artistic expression and freedom of expression.
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01/12/2015 09:04:33 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
I completely reject the lame and stereotypical definitions of "negative space". What happened to artistic interpretation? It is always an insult to have the challenge description narrowed to a much tinier slice of the world than originally intended. But, that often happens. People's votes are influenced by this process of defining and limiting artistic expression and freedom of expression. |
As always, you are free to submit a photograph based on your own non-lame and different definition of "negative space". Believe me, the rest of us will not be insulted by one tiny lame and non-artistic bit.
I (as i believe many others) have submitted in the past photographs that fitted MY definition of the challenge topic and description, however non-standard it may be, not caring a bit about the voters and the general public. I liked the images and that was all that mattered.
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01/12/2015 09:48:53 PM · #37 |
We could simply define Negative Space - Art as Wikipedia does:
namely: Negative space, in art, is the space around and between the subject(s) of an image. Negative space may be most evident when the space around a subject, not the subject itself, forms an interesting or artistically relevant shape, and such space occasionally is used to artistic effect as the "real" subject of an image.
And for further reference, we might look at images that appear in the Images for Negative Space.
Then those who are not sure what "negative space" is, such as beginners and those of us who have not had art training, will be on the same "level playing field" as the rest of those in DPC.
We are indeed a learning site. I suppose that is why these far-ranging discussions have value. |
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01/12/2015 10:28:42 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
And for further reference, we might look at images that appear in the Images for Negative Space. |
It's worth noting that nearly all of those examples are "graphic" and very high-contrast. They have more relevance in graphic arts terminology than in photographic practice. I wouldn't want anyone coming out of this discussion with the idea that ONLY super-high-contrast renderings are "real" examples of negative space... |
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01/12/2015 10:42:47 PM · #39 |
| Other people's interpretation of negative space, on Flickr |
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01/12/2015 11:03:31 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by tanguera:
If we're going to go by your definition, Don, this is perhaps the most popular depiction of "negative space". To me this, and the stool example, seem equally limiting, in a different way. |
Actually, that always has been a clever use of negative space. The stool shows that negative space isn't always interesting, imo. It's when the negative space is a surprise that makes it noteworthy. Otherwise, it's just there the majority of the time. |
Yes, make the negative space interesting! Not to meet the challenge, but to keep me awake. I hate getting keyboard marks on my face (another example of negative space). |
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01/12/2015 11:46:19 PM · #41 |
| no please make it dull, he really needs to get more sleep |
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01/12/2015 11:53:52 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
no please make it dull, he really needs to get more sleep |
OMG. I actually, really LOL'd. |
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01/13/2015 12:18:13 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
no please make it dull, he really needs to get more sleep |
You can count on me for that... Dull is my middle name lately. |
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01/13/2015 12:23:49 AM · #44 |
| I thought your middle name was _ |
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01/13/2015 01:12:15 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by jgirl57:
I did find a blog when I was trying to get examples and learn from it
Negative space |
That article is excellent. I read the whole thing. Excellent. |
"The frame is edge of the paper if you're drawing. It could be the edge of the viewfinder or the camera's LCD screen, print, negative, or slide in photography. Sounds easy, but do you know, that most adults are not aware of the edges of their view finder, or the edges of the paper. They have to be trained to see it as part of their compositions. Art teachers of pre-adolescent youngsters tell me that those children pick up on this almost instinctively, but that it becomes more difficult to teach the older the child becomes, apparently because of how we train our minds to process information. The older we get the less likely we are to categorize the edge of the paper as having important information or relevance to our composition." [emphasis mine]
This explains why we never talk about framing the shot. And the edge of the composition is key to understanding negative space. IMHO. |
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01/13/2015 03:46:14 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
"The frame is edge of the paper if you're drawing. It could be the edge of the viewfinder or the camera's LCD screen, print, negative, or slide in photography. Sounds easy, but do you know, that most adults are not aware of the edges of their view finder, or the edges of the paper. They have to be trained to see it as part of their compositions. Art teachers of pre-adolescent youngsters tell me that those children pick up on this almost instinctively, but that it becomes more difficult to teach the older the child becomes, apparently because of how we train our minds to process information. The older we get the less likely we are to categorize the edge of the paper as having important information or relevance to our composition." [emphasis mine]
This explains why we never talk about framing the shot. And the edge of the composition is key to understanding negative space. IMHO. |
Yes, I think we should have a "Go to the Edge" challenge because so few at DPC understand this principle, and the front page shots almost never have action at the edges of the frame. It's why I rarely like vignettes. |
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01/13/2015 04:29:13 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
"The frame is edge of the paper if you're drawing. It could be the edge of the viewfinder or the camera's LCD screen, print, negative, or slide in photography. Sounds easy, but do you know, that most adults are not aware of the edges of their view finder, or the edges of the paper. They have to be trained to see it as part of their compositions. Art teachers of pre-adolescent youngsters tell me that those children pick up on this almost instinctively, but that it becomes more difficult to teach the older the child becomes, apparently because of how we train our minds to process information. The older we get the less likely we are to categorize the edge of the paper as having important information or relevance to our composition." [emphasis mine]
This explains why we never talk about framing the shot. And the edge of the composition is key to understanding negative space. IMHO. |
Yes, I think we should have a "Go to the Edge" challenge because so few at DPC understand this principle, and the front page shots almost never have action at the edges of the frame. It's why I rarely like vignettes. |
I never thought of it before, but I don't like vignettes either & probably for the same reason. Nice insight! |
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01/13/2015 04:58:47 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
"The frame is edge of the paper if you're drawing. It could be the edge of the viewfinder or the camera's LCD screen, print, negative, or slide in photography. Sounds easy, but do you know, that most adults are not aware of the edges of their view finder, or the edges of the paper. They have to be trained to see it as part of their compositions. Art teachers of pre-adolescent youngsters tell me that those children pick up on this almost instinctively, but that it becomes more difficult to teach the older the child becomes, apparently because of how we train our minds to process information. The older we get the less likely we are to categorize the edge of the paper as having important information or relevance to our composition." [emphasis mine]
This explains why we never talk about framing the shot. And the edge of the composition is key to understanding negative space. IMHO. |
Yes, I think we should have a "Go to the Edge" challenge because so few at DPC understand this principle, and the front page shots almost never have action at the edges of the frame. It's why I rarely like vignettes. |
here is an edgy one with vignette
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01/13/2015 06:36:59 PM · #49 |
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01/13/2015 07:22:12 PM · #50 |
now with the talk about going to the edge thing LOLOL You guys are making it deeper and opening a new can of worms again LOL
but it sounds interesting and I want to learn more about that too.
Message edited by author 2015-01-13 19:23:50. |
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