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09/05/2014 06:05:07 PM · #126 |
How can you say that Cowboy... there is enough stupidity to go around in the USA and trust me, Obama does not hold reign in that domain.
The sad thing about most political, social and religious issues is that people are so opinionated that they really can't stop and discuss anything.
I have seen people "Unfriend" me on Facebook simply because I did not agree with their perception of what is or should be... nothing like finding middle ground now is there.
Viewed from this man's perspective it seems that "compromise" is a word to be shunned and is viewed as a definite sign of weekness.
Sadly, you sow what you reap ... so you folks are in a heap of trouble.
Ray |
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09/05/2014 06:10:42 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by Dave Ross:
Why not do stupid stuff?
The most popular item on the New Yorker website was a piece of satire by Andy Borowitz. It's about President Obama's much-ridiculed foreign policy motto, "Don't do stupid stuff".
Which, Borowitz says, has critics like Senator John McCain "pressuring him to do something stupid without further delay."
Borowitz makes up a quote for Senator John McCain, "The President has chosen to waste valuable time thinking."
Then he makes up a quote for Senator Lindsey Graham, "The American people are waiting for President Obama to do something stupid, but their patience is wearing thin."
I decided to double-check - to make sure Borowitz was just joking and that the quotes were in fact, made up, because these days you never know.
Well, it turns out McCain & Graham said nothing of the kind. What they said was ISIS is after us.
"Do they have the capability to hit the homeland?" asked Graham. "I would say, yes."
ISIS is rich.
"It's the largest, richest, terrorist organization on Earth," said McCain.
We can't afford pay attention to national borders.
"We cannot give them sanctuary just because of the boundary," said McCain.
You have to eradicate ISIS wherever it is.
"You can't just contain it, you have to defeat it," said McCain.
So what they're saying is, instead of listening to a president who says don't do stupid stuff, we need to launch a third war in the Middle East.
Presumably, because the last two worked so well.
Like I say, sometimes it's hard to tell who's joking. |
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09/05/2014 07:04:42 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Lydia:
[quote=escapetooz] For me, as a person that literally hasn't been insured since the age of 11 ... [see below for the rest] Maybe now more people ABLE to go to the doctor and thus things filling up more, hard to say. |
So... now... you can go to the doctor and... get a needle in your arm for "free" and... you're happy because... why?
Because it's not people you know.. .your family ... who are paying for your inadequate care?
It's strangers who are working to pay for your inadequate care now, and... suddenly ... you're okay with it all?
[see below for the rest] ...
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY THAT I CAN BECOME PREGNANT. Yet... OBAMACare requires me to have maternity care...
FOR MY OWN GOOD. |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
... You seem to be taking offense to my story for very personal reasons. |
No, I am not taking personal offense to your story. I was trying to use your story to illustrate in a way that's applicable to your story, what's happening now instead of what happened when you had your family paying for your healthcare. Now, I AM paying for your healthcare.
Do I mind paying for your healthcare? NOPE! Not at all... IF you actually NEED that healthcare.
And... I already WAS paying for your healthcare... I pay taxes and those taxes provide, as you have pointed out, free ER visits.
Do you know how many drug addicts go to the ER every day... wanting drugs and won't stop until they get them? Do you know how many people go to the ER so they can get a meal?
That is NOT what public heathcare should be "fixing". We have food programs... cellphone programs... free college tuition...
We've ALWAYS had free healthcare for people who actually need it. And I've never minded that. I DO mind my recent ER visit costing me $6500 out of my pocket (after my ObamaCare regulated insurance paid their part)... for a four hour visit to the ER. No stitches or surgery were involved. Three of the four hours, I was by myself in a room with no care being given to me (waiting on test results). I had a stress test, an ultrasound, an EKG, two aspirins, and two xrays. THAT IS ALL.
So... I'm not feeling much sympathy for the druggies who've upped my ER costs so much that I pay $3250 an hour for medical care.
Originally posted by escapetooz:
We all pay for stuff we don't agree with or need. I don't have children but my taxes go towards school. I'm a pacifist and my taxes go towards war and militarized police squads. I'm anti-corporatist but I pay for tax breaks and big farm subsidies. |
I home schooled our four children, paid for all of their books, did the work myself, paid for their government-required testing AND paid the school taxes that should have educated them.
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Apparently you feel entitled to some special pity party because you don't want to help poor people? No. It doesn't work that way. That's called living in a society. |
You don't even know me. You have NO idea how much or how little I give to "poor people". I am quite stunned that you say I'm having a "pity party" because I have to help poor people. I have no response to this, it's so far out of reality. Please try not to judge people... especially when you don't have any facts about them.
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Yea, it sucks that your rates went up. I don't really understand how that all works or why. All I know is I see more good than harm happening so far. And you can begrudge me all you want, but I'm happy as a clam that I can go to a freakin doctor if I need to. |
I am not surprised that you have no idea who is, or care about who is, paying for your "freakin doctor" visits.
I have been without doctor visits for my four children... without FOOD for my four children... Doing without the second income in our family of six, so I could stay home with them and parent them, was very expensive... but worth it.
Please do not think that you can tell me how it is to have a sick child without a way to get medicine for my child. It is much worse than not having medicine for oneself.
You say that you've been without insurance for eighteen years. Did you die? Are you disabled due to being without insurance?
I'm glad that you can afford internet and a membership on a photography site. But, if it comes to the point that you can't, ask the government. All of the taxpayers will chip in for it, I'm sure.
That's how we got Obamacare. They weren't happy with "the free membership on DPC that only let them enter one challenge a week while paying members got three each week". WHY should SOME get three challenges a week when some only get ONE? This must be fixed. All must be equal even if some work to pay for the membership and some sit on their butt all day smoking and drinking and eating potato chips.
I have NO problem helping people who need help until they can get back "on their feet". I DO have a problem working all day to fund their pleasure while they play and take my money.
Are you willing to pay for the "poor people" who can't pay for a DPC membership to make it "fair"?
Life is not "fair". Whoever told you that, lied to you.
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09/05/2014 10:22:55 PM · #129 |
No offence Lydia... but you really need to re-read your comments... they sound unbelievably condescending.
That is probably NOT your intent, but from this man's perspective you seem to be OK with the status quo and it is either that you have never been poor or have managed over the years to forget what it is really like.
If we all contributed to only those things that we actually make use of, I would have no reason to pay for school taxes, police services, road tax, firefighting and a host of other services that I no longer use. Since I pay insurance on everything that I own, one would think that I could simply live with being robbed blind and the house burning down to the foundation since I am covered right?
What really makes society is the knowledge that if we all pull as one, societey as a whole will be better off for it.
I honestly believe that you are much better than what your latest comments seem to suggest you are.
Ray |
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09/06/2014 08:13:00 AM · #130 |
Lydia, I understand where you are coming from, but....
you need to realize you chose to do without, not everyone gets that choice. there are a lot of people who start out life disadvantaged. sure some people abuse the system and there are fuckups who ruin it, but you only hear about those people, you don't here about the millions of others who struggle without a lot of what the rest of us take for granted.
access to affordable healthcare shouldn't be reserved for the well to do. they get enough as it is.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 08:13:52. |
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09/06/2014 10:12:52 AM · #131 |
Originally posted by Lydia:
Please do not think that you can tell me how it is to have a sick child without a way to get medicine for my child. It is much worse than not having medicine for oneself.
You say that you've been without insurance for eighteen years. Did you die? Are you disabled due to being without insurance?
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1. Please note that I WAS the child in that equation. I was the uninsured child 18 years ago. I don't get your point here? Everyone deserves medical attention, child or adult. Yea, I'm sure it hurts a lot to see your children uninsured, but news flash, everyone is someone's child. Nearly everyone has people that care about them and suffer when they're hurting.
2. Did I die? Well you know I could have. I let some really painful situations go unchecked because I couldn't afford to go to the doctor. For days, weeks. Bedridden pain. It was right after the recession hit and myself and two of my roommates were all without jobs and eating instant mashed potatoes to survive. I was thankful in a strange way that I didn't have a job, because I surely would have been fired for how many days I would have missed being so sick.
Again, what does this have to do with anything? I mean....
You are sadly misinformed about whose "pleasure" you are working for. Look up, not down.
"Welfare Spending Nearly Half What U.S. Forked Out In Corporate Subsidies In 2006: Study"
Think on that. Maybe if corporations were paying their taxes and paying their employees properly instead of hoarding mountains of money like deranged Scrooge McDucks, we wouldn't need welfare programs.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 10:13:10. |
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09/06/2014 10:16:18 AM · #132 |
This "poor people are lazy" mindset makes me want to tear my hair out.
Yes, let's not work for their "pleasure".
The Self-Attribution Fallacy
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 10:18:05. |
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09/06/2014 10:47:13 AM · #133 |
Oh! I didn't realize we were talking about AFRICA! I was talking about the USA. My bad...
Anyway, I'm off to set up for the funeral of my 53-year-old best friend, who used to do volunteer work for the local hospital with me.
I'll have to listen to how selfish I am later.
Carry on... |
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09/06/2014 11:05:49 AM · #134 |
"... if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you’re likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you’re likely to go to business school."
That's from the fascinating article Monica just linked. It's not the first time I've heard this. It's apparently something of a truism that the modern, high-end business climate selects for, and rewards, what most of us would consider extreme psychopathologies... |
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09/06/2014 11:25:37 AM · #135 |
Originally posted by Lydia:
Oh! I didn't realize we were talking about AFRICA! I was talking about the USA. My bad...
Anyway, I'm off to set up for the funeral of my 53-year-old best friend, who used to do volunteer work for the local hospital with me.
I'll have to listen to how selfish I am later.
Carry on... |
Oh the UUUUSSSS.... I had no idea that was the subject of this Obamacare thread. I'm just soooo stupid. Here let me show you something.
"About 7 percent of all workers and 4 percent of all full-time workers earn wages that leave them below the poverty line."
"Many low wage workers have part of their earnings stolen by their employers. Examples include not paying people the full minimum wage, not paying required overtime, stealing from tipped employees, or fraudulently classifying workers as independent contractors. A survey of over 4000 low wage workers in Chicago, Los Angeles and New York conducted by university and non-profit researchers found: 26 percent of the workers were paid less than the minimum wage in the previous week, a majority were underpaid by more than $1 an hour"
Working poor in the USA
That's not to even mention all of the farmers and others that make enough to be over the poverty line but are so indebted to the big agro companies and banks for mortgages and such they'd be better off not working at all.
I'm not understanding you throwing out all of these "I'm a good person" examples like that changes at all what you've been saying.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 11:25:59. |
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09/06/2014 11:27:18 AM · #136 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"... if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you’re likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you’re likely to go to business school."
That's from the fascinating article Monica just linked. It's not the first time I've heard this. It's apparently something of a truism that the modern, high-end business climate selects for, and rewards, what most of us would consider extreme psychopathologies... |
Very very much so. Our heroes. Sickening. |
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09/06/2014 11:28:50 AM · #137 |
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09/06/2014 11:59:43 AM · #138 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"... if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you’re likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you’re likely to go to business school."
That's from the fascinating article Monica just linked. It's not the first time I've heard this. It's apparently something of a truism that the modern, high-end business climate selects for, and rewards, what most of us would consider extreme psychopathologies... |
Very very much so. Our heroes. Sickening. |
So you find my success sickining? Or does the fact that I almost ended up in prison and came from a lower income family change that? Are you hateful and biased against all successful business people, or just those that came from prosperous families?
I'd figure that you be a little more grateful really, given that if people like me don't work their asses off every day and don't pay stupid amounts of our income out to support various programs you would be totally screwed.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 12:03:31. |
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09/06/2014 12:08:50 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"... if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you’re likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you’re likely to go to business school."
That's from the fascinating article Monica just linked. It's not the first time I've heard this. It's apparently something of a truism that the modern, high-end business climate selects for, and rewards, what most of us would consider extreme psychopathologies... |
Very very much so. Our heroes. Sickening. |
So you find my success sickining? Or does the fact that I almost ended up in prison and came from a lower income family change that? Are you hateful and biased against all successful business people, or just those that came from prosperous families?
I'd figure that you be a little more grateful really, given that if people like me don't work their asses off every day and don't pay stupid amounts of our income out to support various programs you would be totally screwed. |
You are very confused as to the subject of my disgust. This has nothing to do with you.
Also, aside from the ACA I get no govt. assistance whatsoever aside from what everyone else does in the form of roads, fire stations, police service. So your assumptions about me are completely unfounded.
Your post is so ridiculously off target as to be laughable.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 12:11:30. |
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09/06/2014 12:24:07 PM · #140 |
| Unless you're a psychopathic CEO... then offense, take it away. |
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09/06/2014 12:45:35 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Unless you're a psychopathic CEO... then offense, take it away. |
Nope, just a sociopathic CTO. Glad to hear it was only pyschopathic CEO's you have a grudge against. (I am technically CEO of a different s-corp, but since I allowed my registration to expire this year I guess you're ok with me again....)
And I've assumed nothing about you. You yourself said that you have benefitted from the ACA, and since I'm paying about twice as much for about half the coverage, I guess you can figure I'm paying for myself and three others. I find your hatred of me and my colleges to be unhelpful in my attitude towards this. Talk about disgusting.
ETA: before you assume anything about what all of this means in terms of my personal wealth, you should probably know that I live paycheck to paycheck with less than a month of income in savings, drive a car with over 250,000 miles on it, and probably owe the government about $25,000 that I'm not sure how I'm going to come up with..
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 12:57:48. |
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09/06/2014 12:58:45 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Unless you're a psychopathic CEO... then offense, take it away. |
Nope, just a sociopathic CTO. Glad to hear it was only pyschopathic CEO's you have a grudge against. (I am technically CEO of a different s-corp, but since I allowed my registration to expire this year I guess you're ok with me again....)
And I've assumed nothing about you. You yourself said that you have benefitted from the ACA, and since I'm paying about twice as much for about half the coverage, I guess you can figure I'm paying for myself and three others. I find your hatred of me and my colleges to be unhelpful in my attitude towards this. Talk about disgusting.
ETA: before you assume anything about what all of this means in terms of my personal wealth, you should probably know that I live paycheck to paycheck with less than a month of income in savings, drive a car with over 250,000 miles on it, and probably owe the government about $25,000 that I'm not sure how I'm going to come up with.. |
When did I ever say I hated you or your colleges or ALL CEOS? Pure fabrications. You still are missing the point entirely. |
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09/06/2014 01:00:41 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Unless you're a psychopathic CEO... then offense, take it away. |
Nope, just a sociopathic CTO. Glad to hear it was only pyschopathic CEO's you have a grudge against. (I am technically CEO of a different s-corp, but since I allowed my registration to expire this year I guess you're ok with me again....)
And I've assumed nothing about you. You yourself said that you have benefitted from the ACA, and since I'm paying about twice as much for about half the coverage, I guess you can figure I'm paying for myself and three others. I find your hatred of me and my colleges to be unhelpful in my attitude towards this. Talk about disgusting.
ETA: before you assume anything about what all of this means in terms of my personal wealth, you should probably know that I live paycheck to paycheck with less than a month of income in savings, drive a car with over 250,000 miles on it, and probably owe the government about $25,000 that I'm not sure how I'm going to come up with.. |
When did I ever say I hated you or your colleges or ALL CEOS? Pure fabrications. You still are missing the point entirely. |
I really don't think so... the point is that I'm forced to work for your benefit and I don't like it. Because of that, you think I'm a disgusting person. |
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09/06/2014 01:05:17 PM · #144 |
| This is getting WAY too personal, people. Cory, she never even implied that you're a "disgusting person". All of this is WAY out of line and you both need to dial it back. Focus on issues, please. |
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09/06/2014 01:17:44 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"... if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you’re likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you’re likely to go to business school."
That's from the fascinating article Monica just linked. It's not the first time I've heard this. It's apparently something of a truism that the modern, high-end business climate selects for, and rewards, what most of us would consider extreme psychopathologies... |
Very very much so. Our heroes. Sickening. |
I guess I must just be reading this wrong. Monica, would you care to correct me here? Who did you mean when you used the phrase 'our heros'? |
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09/06/2014 01:30:52 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
"... if you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a poor family you’re likely to go to prison. If you have psychopathic tendencies and are born to a rich family you’re likely to go to business school."
That's from the fascinating article Monica just linked. It's not the first time I've heard this. It's apparently something of a truism that the modern, high-end business climate selects for, and rewards, what most of us would consider extreme psychopathologies... |
Very very much so. Our heroes. Sickening. |
I guess I must just be reading this wrong. Monica, would you care to correct me here? Who did you mean when you used the phrase 'our heros'? |
Bear was just talking about psychopaths. I don't think it's that hard to puzzle out that I was also talking about psychopaths. |
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09/06/2014 01:36:20 PM · #147 |
"Between 1947 and 1979, productivity in the US rose by 119%, while the income of the bottom fifth of the population rose by 122%. But from 1979 to 2009, productivity rose by 80%, while the income of the bottom fifth fell by 4%. In roughly the same period, the income of the top 1% rose by 270%."
We're not getting lazier. Just poorer.
Also:
"In a study published by the journal Psychology, Crime and Law, Belinda Board and Katarina Fritzon tested 39 senior managers and chief executives from leading British businesses. They compared the results to the same tests on patients at Broadmoor special hospital, where people who have been convicted of serious crimes are incarcerated. On certain indicators of psychopathy, the bosses's scores either matched or exceeded those of the patients. In fact, on these criteria, they beat even the subset of patients who had been diagnosed with psychopathic personality disorders."
Source. |
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09/06/2014 01:42:47 PM · #148 |
What is most interesting is that I'm not at all sure that the author you two are fawning over didn't mean sociopaths, as most sorts of psychopaths actually aren't particularly likely to excel in corporate environments.
And let's do be clear, you really only hate the successful ones, if they're totally useless failures you seem more likely to pity them, and expect me to pay for their treatment, housing and food.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 13:45:31. |
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09/06/2014 02:12:19 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by Cory:
What is most interesting is that I'm not at all sure that the author you two are fawning over didn't mean sociopaths, as most sorts of psychopaths actually aren't particularly likely to excel in corporate environments.
And let's do be clear, you really only hate the successful ones, if they're totally useless failures you seem more likely to pity them, and expect me to pay for their treatment, housing and food. |
The terms sociopath and psychopath are used fairly interchangeably.
In any case, neither of them can really help the way they are, they are missing essential elements of the mind. Being able to help it or not aside, they are not the people we should allow to run the world. And yes, I do believe in paying for treatment for the mentally ill. For example, there shouldn't be schizophrenics given pills and dumped on the street.
The point is the sociopaths in power are REWARDED handsomely form their sociopathy. That's a broken system.
We wanna get back to health care. Mental health is a whole other can of worms we can open up.
Message edited by author 2014-09-06 14:12:47. |
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09/06/2014 02:15:46 PM · #150 |
| PS: I'd much rather a useless failure than a useful destroyer of economies and environments. Yes. Please. |
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