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05/18/2004 01:06:04 AM · #1 |
| Does the single lens reflex make DSLRs any better than if they didn't have a mirror? or does it simply help sell the camera by labeling it as a SLR? |
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05/18/2004 01:18:20 AM · #2 |
| How would you look through a viewfinder and compose a shot without the mirror? I really don't understand your question. |
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05/18/2004 01:45:24 AM · #3 |
I assume he asks because all non-SLR TTL digicam's use an EVF with live-preview. Give me the real picture (optical ttl) anytime, oh do EVF's suck. :(
Had to shoot at a museum opening last weekend and for group shots I brought my '77 40mm F2.8 Agfa rangefinder-style filmcamera with an OVF. The size of the subject in the optical viewfinder just frightened me, arggh all that detail to take into account and I could actually see when somebody blinked. :)
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05/18/2004 01:45:59 AM · #4 |
The word 'SINGLE' refers to the fact that there is only one lens on a SLR camera (be that digitall or film). Th fact that you use the same lens to compose the shot and to take the shot means that you may change lenses at will.
The mirror is just the mechanism by which you access the main lens when viewing. It has no bearing on the quality of the shot. |
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05/18/2004 02:15:28 AM · #5 |
Wave your hand in front of the EVF and you will see the advantage of an optical viewfinder.
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05/18/2004 02:16:53 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by willem:
Wave your hand in front of the EVF and you will see the advantage of an optical viewfinder. |
+ the savings in battery.
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05/18/2004 02:21:23 AM · #7 |
| I like it over my F717 because if I forget my compact I can always whip the lens off and check to see if my mascara is smudged. |
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05/18/2004 02:35:18 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
I like it over my F717 because if I forget my compact I can always whip the lens off and check to see if my mascara is smudged. |
Lol :) Seems like the dSLR users have a great sense of humor. Will someone buy me a dSLR?
Message edited by author 2004-05-18 02:39:22.
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05/18/2004 02:37:47 AM · #9 |
| I recommend waterproof mascara once you start buying L zooms. |
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05/18/2004 03:01:22 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by eswik:
Does the single lens reflex make DSLRs any better than if they didn't have a mirror? or does it simply help sell the camera by labeling it as a SLR? |
Answer: YES, it is better
But it is NOT the mirror that makes the big difference, it is the optical viewfinder it reflects the light into that does.
Originally the SLR optical viewfinder system was created to help with focusing and allow "what you see is what you get". The SLR often has a pentaprism, rangefinder or both for focusing. But the key to its importance today is that you can more clearly see what you are photographing including good DOF. Electronic viewfinders do not do that. They suck!
With my F717 I can't even tell if pictures are in focus until I load them on the computer and DOF is pure guesswork based on f/stop.
Message edited by author 2004-05-18 03:01:39.
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05/18/2004 09:02:24 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Falc:
It has no bearing on the quality of the shot. |
Sometimes the mirror shooting up during exposure shakes the camera body, making the focus on long-lensed macro shots a bit tricky.
Having a mirror lock up (which the D70 lacks) is a real advantage. |
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05/18/2004 11:20:15 AM · #12 |
I think it is more accurate to say that an EVF allows you to see "what you get" while the SLR viewfinder let's you see "what you are photographing". The view one sees when looking into a SLR viewfinder is closer to what the naked eye sees. The view one sees when looking into an EVF is closer to what the your camera's sensor will record. Both views are modified by the magnification, focus and distoration of the lens system.
Both have their supporters and detractors. IMHO, one's preference is often based on which type the person used when first learning to take photographs. More experienced photographers, with a background in film, are more likely to insist on SLR; but those whose experience started with digital are more likely to find comfort in the advantages of EVF. |
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05/18/2004 11:59:36 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by coolhar:
Both have their supporters and detractors. IMHO, one's preference is often based on which type the person used when first learning to take photographs. More experienced photographers, with a background in film, are more likely to insist on SLR; but those whose experience started with digital are more likely to find comfort in the advantages of EVF. |
I'd have to say that those who prefer EVF are people that have NEVER looked through a decent viewfinder before.
At this stage of their evolution the "advantageous" of EVF are negligible at best. When you can't see properly it is harder to compose a decent picture.
I'd further suggest that those that started with EVF then switched to SLR would agree that SLR viewfinders are superior.
EVF is my least liked feature of my F-717.
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05/18/2004 02:04:08 PM · #14 |
One big reason that many of us aren't using DSLR's is that WE CAN'T AFFORD THEM :) Until then I use my F707 and make do with the EVF. Actually, most of the time, I am perfectly happy with it. I particularily like being able to easily and quickly review the last shot while the camera is still to my eye ready to shoot again. The DOF that you see in the EVF is exactly what you will get. In fact, everything that you see in an EVF is what you are going to get. The issue of determining sharpness is definitely a drawback but I can still usually tell. Fortunately the F707 has reliable auto focus albeit a little slow. I would definitely prefer a big, bright optical viewfinder from an SLR but my philosophy is that you make the best out of what you have and enjoy taking photos.
T
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05/18/2004 02:23:56 PM · #15 |
I must say that the EVF and the live LCD was an advantage in certain situations, including shooting from waist level and off a tripod. Off a tripod the tiltable LCD of the F717 was magic. Still, I highly disliked the lag that the F717 had, especially in low light, where it was a sea of pixels sloshing around as you moved the camera. It was an epiphany to look through the viewfinder using my 50 1.4, and being able to compose accurately in very low light. Stll, film users complain that the 10D's viewfinder is small and dim, so it's all relative. I never really perceived a problem composing with my F717 as it was so much better than my Sony S50.
In theory the EVF is superior, if there were no lag. The SLR system of a shutter and a static medium is really a hangover from film, where there was no live preview possible. A lot of development would have to go into it, though. I find that the DOF preview button is somewhat usable, though often so dim as to make it hard to use. After a while you gain experience with the SLR viewfinder you get an idea of what's going to come out without having to resort to the preview button or swearing that the EVF would give you a better idea.
Message edited by author 2004-05-18 14:24:42. |
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05/18/2004 02:56:48 PM · #16 |
Wouldn't it be nice if someone could find a way to merge both worlds, for example using a prism which reflected the image to the viewfinder, and allowed it through to the CCD to have the image on the Screen,
OR alternatively Had the option to flip the mirror up and display the image on an LCD in the viewfinder.
This would have the advantage that the video function could then be added to slr cameras, and you could select to see how the photo is going to look, or review a photo without removing your eye from the viewfinder. |
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05/18/2004 05:02:30 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by aKiwi:
Wouldn't it be nice if someone could find a way to merge both worlds, for example using a prism which reflected the image to the viewfinder, and allowed it through to the CCD to have the image on the Screen,
OR alternatively Had the option to flip the mirror up and display the image on an LCD in the viewfinder.
This would have the advantage that the video function could then be added to slr cameras, and you could select to see how the photo is going to look, or review a photo without removing your eye from the viewfinder. |
They have film versions of this, EOS-1 RS. |
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05/18/2004 05:13:15 PM · #18 |
My dad has an older Pentax (I think it is a rangefinder) that uses removeable lenses - the viewfinder has a circle in the center of the frame split horizontally that I think helps in focusing - it appears slightly brighter and clearer than the rest of the viewfinder. What is the advantage of this - is there anything like this available for digital SLR's? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
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05/18/2004 05:34:36 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Maverick:
My dad has an older Pentax (I think it is a rangefinder) that uses removeable lenses - the viewfinder has a circle in the center of the frame split horizontally that I think helps in focusing - it appears slightly brighter and clearer than the rest of the viewfinder. What is the advantage of this - is there anything like this available for digital SLR's? Does anyone know what I'm talking about? |
Split screen focusing. I think it's still offered as a viewfinder option just like grid lines are... |
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