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05/19/2014 06:31:02 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
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05/19/2014 07:28:46 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by macwilyum:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Hah! Now we have Minimal Editing to round out the experience :-) |
 langdon will have to post three consecutive Minimal Editing challenges to offset the three |
fine, as long as he gets them out of the way before TPL. |
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05/19/2014 08:07:22 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here?
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 08:12:08. |
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05/19/2014 08:24:51 AM · #104 |
As more and more work is done in pp, I think the increased freedom of Expert is a good thing.
OH NO! THREE ADVANCED EDITING CHALLENGES IN A ROW!
Isn't the site about learning and expanding your horizons? Embrace the challenge, eh? |
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05/19/2014 08:26:35 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here? |
Of course I was answering Spork's statement. There are a lot of digital artists who use someone's photos.
I thought we were on the same side of the fence :D |
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05/19/2014 08:53:09 AM · #106 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Hah! Now we have Minimal Editing to round out the experience :-) |
That works! I find them equally as challenging! |
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05/19/2014 09:04:05 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here? |
An artist who knows how to use a camera and what they can't get that way, they can create from nothing in PS.
I don't care if DPC has these challenges, they're not my thing, but calling them "expert" is an insult to those who don't make composites. A real "expert" would use whatever tools allowed to make a good image and would do well in any challenge. Call them "Anything goes" or "open editing" or what-have-you. Just avoid the insinuation that they are for "experts"
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 09:05:08. |
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05/19/2014 09:09:45 AM · #108 |
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here? |
Of course I was answering Spork's statement. There are a lot of digital artists who use someone's photos.
I thought we were on the same side of the fence :D |
I think we are! There are non-photographers doing digital art, true. That has nothing to do with what's happening at DPC though.
I just can't let it go by when I read such statements, that seem to be assuming this or that about people unknown on no evidence. I guess it's the troubleshooter in me.
Forgive me? |
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05/19/2014 09:14:02 AM · #109 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here? |
An artist who knows how to use a camera and what they can't get that way, they can create from nothing in PS.
I don't care if DPC has these challenges, they're not my thing, but calling them "expert" is an insult to those who don't make composites. A real "expert" would use whatever tools allowed to make a good image and would do well in any challenge. Call them "Anything goes" or "open editing" or what-have-you. Just avoid the insinuation that they are for "experts" |
see, that's the thing. Expert editing. Because, the other insinuation is that expert photographers prefer minimal editing. Which also isn't true. Right?
[eta]
And why is editing not a part of photography here? Why is editing just rules for challenges?
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 09:24:16. |
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05/19/2014 09:22:31 AM · #110 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here? |
An artist who knows how to use a camera and what they can't get that way, they can create from nothing in PS.
I don't care if DPC has these challenges, they're not my thing, but calling them "expert" is an insult to those who don't make composites. A real "expert" would use whatever tools allowed to make a good image and would do well in any challenge. Call them "Anything goes" or "open editing" or what-have-you. Just avoid the insinuation that they are for "experts" |
see, that's the thing. Expert editing. Because, the other insinuation is that expert photographers prefer minimal editing. Which also isn't true. Right?
[eta]
And why is editing not a part of photography here? |
Who says it's not? I do think 99% of the composites are like the poster for Conan the Barbarian or a Blue Oyster Cult album cover, but that's not the point.
The implication is that the challenge is for "experts", "advanced" or "basic" users and not simply an indicator of the level of editing allowed. |
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05/19/2014 09:27:00 AM · #111 |
Only for you. Everyone else seems to be able to realize they are rules for editing, not categories for photographers. After all, there's no way to prove which kind of photographer you are, no way to DNMC the photographer for not being 'expert.' Maybe that's what you wish for? Categories for the photographer? Challenges to pass before moving up to the next level? Like a game? Inquiring minds want to know.
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 09:27:39. |
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05/19/2014 09:50:42 AM · #112 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I still think a name change of the rulesets is in order. The name "Expert" implies that the challenge is for expert photographers, as if it's a more rigorous challenge than an advanced challenge and way beyond a basic one. |
Expert 'editing' not expert 'photographers'. I guess that resizing and sharpening in minimal is easier than making a composite in expert, isn't it? You can make a great composite and be an awful photographer. |
Not true. You still have to be able to go out & get exactly the shot(s) you want. You have to get it right, in camera--not just one shot but many shots. And do it with a composition in mind that only you can see. You need a strong, compelling inner vision that will drive you to spend hours setting up & collecting the shots & hours more putting them all together. This is not an 'awful photographer,' but an artist who knows how to use a camera.
[eta]
How would you feel if people said it's the lazy photographer who prefers minimal editing. Get it right in-camera at the moment, limit yourself to what the moment gives you, & never waste time in the digital darkroom. The thing is, is to just keep shooting.
Why can't there be room for all of us here? |
An artist who knows how to use a camera and what they can't get that way, they can create from nothing in PS.
I don't care if DPC has these challenges, they're not my thing, but calling them "expert" is an insult to those who don't make composites. A real "expert" would use whatever tools allowed to make a good image and would do well in any challenge. Call them "Anything goes" or "open editing" or what-have-you. Just avoid the insinuation that they are for "experts" |
see, that's the thing. Expert editing. Because, the other insinuation is that expert photographers prefer minimal editing. Which also isn't true. Right?
[eta]
And why is editing not a part of photography here? |
Who says it's not? I do think 99% of the composites are like the poster for Conan the Barbarian or a Blue Oyster Cult album cover, but that's not the point.
The implication is that the challenge is for "experts", "advanced" or "basic" users and not simply an indicator of the level of editing allowed. |
English is not my first language but I don't need that to understand that the word editing is different from the word user ;) |
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05/19/2014 10:03:36 AM · #113 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Only for you. Everyone else seems to be able to realize they are rules for editing, not categories for photographers. After all, there's no way to prove which kind of photographer you are, no way to DNMC the photographer for not being 'expert.' Maybe that's what you wish for? Categories for the photographer? Challenges to pass before moving up to the next level? Like a game? Inquiring minds want to know. |
i agree with Spork, i think the name can be a bit off-putting. when i first started here years ago, the advanced editing intimidated me for no other reason then i associated better photographers with better processing ability. |
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05/19/2014 11:05:41 AM · #114 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Only for you. Everyone else seems to be able to realize they are rules for editing, not categories for photographers. After all, there's no way to prove which kind of photographer you are, no way to DNMC the photographer for not being 'expert.' Maybe that's what you wish for? Categories for the photographer? Challenges to pass before moving up to the next level? Like a game? Inquiring minds want to know. |
i agree with Spork, i think the name can be a bit off-putting. when i first started here years ago, the advanced editing intimidated me for no other reason then i associated better photographers with better processing ability. |
And look at you now! "D |
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05/19/2014 11:24:50 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by Alexkc:
Originally posted by Spork99:
The implication is that the challenge is for "experts", "advanced" or "basic" users and not simply an indicator of the level of editing allowed. |
) |
Now, that is the best explanation I have heard.. :-) That would take me out of the expert and the advanced group right away because I am only learning basics :-)) |
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05/19/2014 11:51:43 AM · #116 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Only for you. Everyone else seems to be able to realize they are rules for editing, not categories for photographers. After all, there's no way to prove which kind of photographer you are, no way to DNMC the photographer for not being 'expert.' Maybe that's what you wish for? Categories for the photographer? Challenges to pass before moving up to the next level? Like a game? Inquiring minds want to know. |
i agree with Spork, i think the name can be a bit off-putting. when i first started here years ago, the advanced editing intimidated me for no other reason then i associated better photographers with better processing ability. |
And look at you now! "D |
and i fail to enter my best work becuase it breaks all the rules... |
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05/19/2014 01:28:18 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Only for you. Everyone else seems to be able to realize they are rules for editing, not categories for photographers. After all, there's no way to prove which kind of photographer you are, no way to DNMC the photographer for not being 'expert.' Maybe that's what you wish for? Categories for the photographer? Challenges to pass before moving up to the next level? Like a game? Inquiring minds want to know. |
Not at all. I just would like to see the challenges renamed based on the type of editing allowed without implying that a certain level of skill is required/expected. "Expert editing" and "Advanced editing" suggest that an "Expert" or "Advanced" skill level is required.
And I see that at least two others agree, so it's not "Only for me".
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 13:29:21. |
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05/19/2014 01:28:43 PM · #118 |
@Mike
Are you posting it to your portfolio? Can I see?
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 13:29:20. |
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05/19/2014 01:35:04 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
I just would like to see the challenges renamed based on the type of editing allowed without implying that a certain level of skill is required/expected. "Expert editing" and "Advanced editing" suggest that an "Expert" or "Advanced" skill level is required. |
When we actually tweak/revise the rules you can expect the rule sets to be named differently, but until we are ready to publish any changes we don't plan to rename them just for the sake of renaming -- I think the meaning of the rules and their names is pretty clear by now ... |
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05/19/2014 01:54:02 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Spork99:
I just would like to see the challenges renamed based on the type of editing allowed without implying that a certain level of skill is required/expected. "Expert editing" and "Advanced editing" suggest that an "Expert" or "Advanced" skill level is required. |
When we actually tweak/revise the rules you can expect the rule sets to be named differently, but until we are ready to publish any changes we don't plan to rename them just for the sake of renaming -- I think the meaning of the rules and their names is pretty clear by now ... |
Sure, to you and me maybe. What about someone new? |
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05/19/2014 02:17:09 PM · #121 |
I'm newish.
I was able to pick up right quickly that advanced, etc. meant editing. (To me the rules do seem quite clear, although I'm kind of a rule follower so I read and reread the rules early on. I suppose many folks aren't as tied to reading the rules?)
I also realized that that solid photo skills were required no matter the editing rule set. (So I'm still working on getting there - I blew a whole session photographing butterflies on Saturday because I too wide an aperture and/or wasn't parallel to the butterflies wings. Disappointing, but presumably I learned something.)
Yes, 'expert' photoshoppers tend to win that front page on expert challenges, I'm just not sure I see anything wrong with that. They're not always my favorites, but I do appreciate the amazing skill that goes into them. In the past four or five months it really seems like there has been a nice variety of photos that win the coveted top three spots. |
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05/19/2014 02:43:44 PM · #122 |
when i joined this site i was very new to photography, i had been using photoshop for years but i still assumed that advanced editing implied advanced techniques, same with expert and i had no idea haw to properly make use of them.
i also assumed, incorrectly that those here that were very talented with a camera were really good at photoshop. of course i learned differently in time...
Message edited by author 2014-05-19 17:39:02. |
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05/19/2014 04:49:47 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Jules1x:
Yes, 'expert' photoshoppers tend to win that front page on expert challenges, I'm just not sure I see anything wrong with that. They're not always my favorites, but I do appreciate the amazing skill that goes into them. In the past four or five months it really seems like there has been a nice variety of photos that win the coveted top three spots. |
This might just be the most sensible, imitation-worthy attitude ever posted on this subject. Thank you.
Also, I added emphasis on "tend", because though it doesn't happen often, images edited under the advanced, and even the minimal, rulests have also ribboned in the expert editing challenges. |
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05/20/2014 09:15:25 AM · #124 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by Jules1x:
Yes, 'expert' photoshoppers tend to win that front page on expert challenges, I'm just not sure I see anything wrong with that. They're not always my favorites, but I do appreciate the amazing skill that goes into them. In the past four or five months it really seems like there has been a nice variety of photos that win the coveted top three spots. |
This might just be the most sensible, imitation-worthy attitude ever posted on this subject. Thank you.
Also, I added emphasis on "tend", because though it doesn't happen often, images edited under the advanced, and even the minimal, rulests have also ribboned in the expert editing challenges. |
+1 |
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05/20/2014 09:20:20 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by Jules1x:
I'm newish.
I was able to pick up right quickly that advanced, etc. meant editing. (To me the rules do seem quite clear, although I'm kind of a rule follower so I read and reread the rules early on. I suppose many folks aren't as tied to reading the rules?)
I also realized that that solid photo skills were required no matter the editing rule set. (So I'm still working on getting there - I blew a whole session photographing butterflies on Saturday because I too wide an aperture and/or wasn't parallel to the butterflies wings. Disappointing, but presumably I learned something.)
Yes, 'expert' photoshoppers tend to win that front page on expert challenges, I'm just not sure I see anything wrong with that. They're not always my favorites, but I do appreciate the amazing skill that goes into them. In the past four or five months it really seems like there has been a nice variety of photos that win the coveted top three spots. |
Thanks for posting this! |
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