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05/15/2002 11:59:21 AM · #26 |
| oh yeah, i totally agree that it fits the challenge, but c'mon, a blind monkey with three fingers could have taken half the shots in this contest |
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05/15/2002 12:41:08 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by achiral:
oh yeah, i totally agree that it fits the challenge, but c'mon, a blind monkey with three fingers could have taken half the shots in this contest
I resemble that remark!!!!
Monkee!!!, Monkee!!!!
I'll repeat what my college art professor once said, "If art was simply about passion we would all have pictures of squished banana's and red asses on our walls!"
His reference was that man would never have evolved beyond apes and ..well..you get the idea.
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05/15/2002 01:21:46 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by tyd:
But, to answer this question... creativity doesn't win around here. I tried to do something a bit creative and ironic with the last challenge, but it seems very few people understood what I was trying to do. For me, creativity went out the window until a really good challenge comes along. [/i]
So be creative anyway. Is it better to look yourself in the mirror and see integrity, or to win a contest with no prize by selling your creativity?
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05/27/2002 12:50:00 PM · #29 |
is this a photography site or a marketing site??????
sellsellsell
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05/27/2002 01:00:02 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by ritaard:
is this a photography site or a marketing site??????
sellsellsell
Personally, In art everything goes..marketing, selling...
You're selling your vision..Why else would you be sharing your art? It's all about communication of emotion, ideas, beliefs, vision..whatever.
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05/27/2002 01:15:57 PM · #31 |
Personally, In art everything goes..marketing, selling...
You're selling your vision..Why else would you be sharing your art? It's all about communication of emotion, ideas, beliefs, vision..whatever.
communication = selling??
sorry. I'm confused.
personally, I think that art is shared in order to affect, change, alert, awaken, hypnotize... etc. selling is only one amongst many of the reasons (personally regarded as one of the lowest). if you aim to sell your art then it is no longer art in its true form. At least not on the terms that it is about YOUR feelings and ideas (as opposed to feelings that were faked to appeal to buyers).
anyway, subjectivity... etc.
as you say - anything goes. |
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05/27/2002 01:43:19 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by dpchallenger:
Originally posted by tyd:
This is why i suggested "Challenge: Everyone photographs the same subject" in the challenge suggestions forum. Doing this for one of the challenges would force you to be creative to stand out from the rest of the people. Also, if your idea is similiar to someone else's it will force you to have a better technical photo.
I think this is an excellent idea. It would definately help in the learning process. I don't think people would get that weary of voting on the same subject, because it will still have room for interpretation.
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05/27/2002 01:55:54 PM · #33 |
Surely creativity should be the main issue when taking a photo.
We are never more creative or imaginative as when we were children.
We spend our lives being told that we must conform to society, to the point that we lose our own identity. We end up having to learn to be creative all over again. Thats what makes this site so much fun: it makes you think. Failing that, get your kids to take the photos;-) |
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05/27/2002 02:16:31 PM · #34 |
when it comes to creativity, i try to raise the bar a couple notches higher every chance i get.
unfortunately, some people cant even tell the difference between a cat and a dog. still others live in caves, and would not be able to catch a pop culture reference if it was rolled gently towards their feet. this hampers the creative process, to a degree. |
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05/27/2002 02:25:03 PM · #35 |
This new challenge certainly is going to test creativity here. I was relieved when I saw the first one (on the road again, or something like that). Now, I have absolutely no idea what to shoot in black and white. Good challenge.
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05/27/2002 02:46:18 PM · #36 |
I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with selling your art. It does not have to be a compromise to the artist's vision or purpose unless they allow that to happen. I make my living off selling my art and I often find it even more stimulating, challenging and creative. I am often creating something for someone that I would not have thought of on my own. Sure, the initial idea was someone elses but the creative process was all mine. I have worked and trained hard to become an artist and I would feel very unsuccessful if I weren't making a living from it by now.
Tim
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05/27/2002 03:19:22 PM · #37 |
You guys are missing my point I think.
I did not mean SELLING your art as in "buy my photo for some use or ownership".
I mean selling as in taking a thought, expression, emotion etc and selling people on it. Is it true, believable. Does it speak to them?
When I was in communication studies in college Pierre Salinger, a great writer and communication director for John F. Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson came to speak to my creative writing class back in 1983.
He used to say "are people buying what you're selling?"
He mean't that many reporters and novelists (and he was one of the best) fail to understand that they have an audience. That the truth, told unconvincingly, is no more meaningful than a lie. He said this holds true for creative writing and novels as well. There is a message there and that it is the writers job to paint that message for the reader, not for the reader to decypher from his ramblings.
Straight reporting is so difficult because you have to walk that line from simply being an over educated stenographer and an overzealous storyteller.
Art is the same way. A message, a thought or direction is there and it is the artists responsibility to lead their audience. To take them on that journey. The audience has the option to stop and smell the flowers (things that they find personally interesting) on that journey but if the destination is left too vague then the meaning is less powerful and even lost.
That is what I mean by selling. Being a great tour guide, painting that picture or capturing that emotion in a way that sells it to your audience. |
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05/27/2002 03:50:10 PM · #38 |
Hokie, that is so excellently stated. I feel silly for misunderstanding you now. I completely agree with you.
Tim |
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05/27/2002 04:03:42 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by timj351:
Hokie, that is so excellently stated. I ... agree with you.
Tim
Ditto!
Paul |
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05/27/2002 04:51:46 PM · #40 |
It wasn't really you who misunderstood, tim. it was ritaard - and it hink the reason being that there is a language barrier.
she's from another country, so I don't think the idiom 'sell someone on your idea' or 'sell yourself' was interpreted in the metaphorical way we understand it now being americans or british. i think, when she read 'sell,' she interpreted it in the most literal way "sell=transaction for money."
just my completely unsolicited interpretation of the conversation : ) . . .
Originally posted by timj351:
Hokie, that is so excellently stated. I feel silly for misunderstanding you now. I completely agree with you.
Tim
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05/27/2002 05:06:55 PM · #41 |
That is a distinct possibility magnetic, language barriers et al may be having their effect here.
Heck, I'm lucky that people that LIVE with me know what the heck I'm talking about!!
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05/27/2002 05:22:29 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
It wasn't really you who misunderstood, tim. it was ritaard - and it hink the reason being that there is a language barrier.
she's from another country, so I don't think the idiom 'sell someone on your idea' or 'sell yourself' was interpreted in the metaphorical way we understand it now being americans or british. i think, when she read 'sell,' she interpreted it in the most literal way "sell=transaction for money."
just my completely unsolicited interpretation of the conversation : ) . . .
Originally posted by timj351:
[i]Hokie, that is so excellently stated. I feel silly for misunderstanding you now. I completely agree with you.
Tim
[/i]
Must be from one of those weird non-capitalist countries. ;)
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05/27/2002 07:11:55 PM · #43 |
| From what I have seen I would have to say that creativity has to be done in a way that is understood by eveyone. The picture has to be able to stand without a title or any explination, if someone can't get the idea from the image alone without a title then the job of the photographer has not been done. The biggest catch here is that you don't really have a specific target audiance, instead you have bits and pieces of the whole human race. To sum up how I try to shoot for this site in a nutshell, simple with flair. Get an idea and try to convey only one thing in your image, let people know what they just saw and try to do something with it that leaves a impression. |
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05/27/2002 09:49:34 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Art is the same way. A message, a thought or direction is there and it is the artists responsibility to lead their audience. To take them on that journey. The audience has the option to stop and smell the flowers (things that they find personally interesting) on that journey but if the destination is left too vague then the meaning is less powerful and even lost.
That is what I mean by selling. Being a great tour guide, painting that picture or capturing that emotion in a way that sells it to your audience.
That's one kind of art, yes. But there is and always has been the avant garde, the people who subvert the norms that are established in every age, the people who want to experiment with shock, challenging their audience to think for a while. There's a fine line between the sublime and the ridiculous in this kind of art, but the sublime is there and it doesn't happen unless there are some people in every age with an open mind who are willing to go with the artist even if they don't know where they're being led, or don't like it.
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05/27/2002 09:59:25 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Originally posted by hokie:
[i]
Art is the same way. A message, a thought or direction is there and it is the artists responsibility to lead their audience. To take them on that journey. The audience has the option to stop and smell the flowers (things that they find personally interesting) on that journey but if the destination is left too vague then the meaning is less powerful and even lost.
That is what I mean by selling. Being a great tour guide, painting that picture or capturing that emotion in a way that sells it to your audience.
That's one kind of art, yes. But there is and always has been the avant garde, the people who subvert the norms that are established in every age, the people who want to experiment with shock, challenging their audience to think for a while. There's a fine line between the sublime and the ridiculous in this kind of art, but the sublime is there and it doesn't happen unless there are some people in every age with an open mind who are willing to go with the artist even if they don't know where they're being led, or don't like it.
[/i]
I agree.........you said exactly what I said "..they're being led..."
Sublime or whatever the form....there is a method to the madness of great art. Even anarchy has form because it rails against the established..therby being formed as a foil, a counterpoint.
I am having more fun this week than last because I went completely against the grain. I was determined to make the anarchist's and traditionalist's fall on the same side of the fence this time and based on my scores I am succeeding :-)
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05/27/2002 10:08:28 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by hokie:
I agree.........you said exactly what I said "..they''re being led..."
Yeah, but you implied that if the artist leaves the destination too vague it''s a failure. Sometimes it''s the point. Sometimes they leave it to the audience to find the destination.
I am having more fun this week than last because I went completely against the grain. I was determined to make the anarchist''s and traditionalist''s fall on the same side of the fence this time and based on my scores I am succeeding :-)
Well done :). My score is in the 3s. That''s even worse than usual! (Oh, I don''t want to imply that I think my photo is avant garde. It''s not, it''s just blurry.)
* This message has been edited by the author on 5/27/2002 10:09:27 PM. |
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05/27/2002 10:43:48 PM · #47 |
The destination being vague is subjective.
Maybe vagueness was the goal. There is a picture that Shrebneski took of Gary Sinese and its a black and white, motion blurred with some suggestive hand positioning.
Shrebeski was asked "why is it blurred, why are Gary's hands where they are? why is he not looking at the camera?"
He answered "Use your imagination and think what you want" He wanted ambiguity. He used the hand motions, the blur and the vague eye placement all to LEAD the audience to a place of imagination. There were definite cues for the audience to follow to some conclusion.
He stopped short of the journey at a fork in the road and said..o.k. you choose the next turn. It almost seemed like he went to the back of the tour bus to watch his audience go the rest of the way on the clues he left.
I never said that great art takes the audience and puts blinders on them. I said that it had intent and also allowed the audience to stop and smell the flowers along the way, or imagine on their own as well. Subtlety is very important in art, some people will fight against being led too harshly and need to be allowed a freedom to figure some stuff on their own.
I have some ideas on this I will be exploring in my photos. I will not be submitting any more baseball shots with beautiful skies for a while!!!! |
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05/28/2002 10:05:35 AM · #48 |
This is thread has taken some interesting twists and turns.
Initially, the concern seems to have been that only "non-creative" photos were rewarded with high evaluation points, and this somehow was smoothering creativity.
The creative process is what the photographer uses to create an image. Similarilly, painters, sculpters, musicians, and others lumped together as artists.
One objective for an artist is to understand and have command of the techniques and craft for the medium they have chosen. That, I think is the central question in this thread.
If the image compels the viewer to a certain place then the image is successful. It may be that the viewer enjoys the image and is satisfied with it for reasons that are different than those that motivated the imagist when they produced the image. That does not deminish the image.
The hard part is deciding which images are art and which are something else, commercial, craft, or ???
A commercial image -photograph- certainly involves a creative process, yet the photographer does not expect the result to be considered art.
When I was doing advertizing photography in the early 70's the commonly stated objective for a photo was to "stop the viewer -reader- from turning the page".
I think that is the creative intent in these challenges; to create an image that is compelling enough to stop the viewer and capture their imagination sufficently to illisite a higher evaluation than the other images in the challenge.
That is a very different creative challenge than creating art.
Thus, in my view, the challenge this week is: create a black and white image that is visually arresting with sufficent intrigue to motivate a high evaluation by most viewers.
David
PS I'm new to this challenge site and looking forward to the experience. |
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05/28/2002 10:12:21 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by tyd:
Someone asked me on my latest entry -- "where is the creativity?"
I must be honest my latest entry isn't great, in fact I wanted to remove it from the competition, but didn't have a chance to.
But, to answer this question... creativity doesn't win around here. I tried to do something a bit creative and ironic with the last challenge, but it seems very few people understood what I was trying to do. For me, creativity went out the window until a really good challenge comes along.
Just gotta take it with a grain of salt. On my pic I was trying to be creative by showing someone betting on a losing hand as a bluff in poker. I even made the title blatantly obvious in case someone didn't understand what I was trying to do. However, after reading the comments I guess a few people didn't understand. Ah well. C'est la vie.
Just keep being creative. As long as you're happy with it then consider it a good shot and try to incorporate peoples' useful comments in your next shot.
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05/28/2002 10:14:05 AM · #50 |
Dammit, David... now that you''ve told them you''ll have to kill ''em all.
* This message has been edited by the author on 5/28/2002 10:29:54 AM.
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