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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> I am sooo proud of my niece
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 12/29/2013 02:39:01 PM · #51
My bro has taken her shooting his .22...My ar was a little bit big for her but she handled it very well and the most important thing...safely. She really is a good shot even with a rifle that she isnt used to...I know an ar is not my 1st choice for deer hunting. I use a Mosin-Nagant (7.62 vs .223) makes a big difference. I wish she had gotten one but there is always next time...
 12/29/2013 03:07:11 PM · #52
8 years old seems very young to take an active part in hunting. Or, to put it another way, if I was invited to come along hunting & I noticed an 8 yr old hunter carrying a gun I would politely decline the invitation.

Or, to put it another way, at that age I was allowed to come along to learn the skills but not allowed to carry a gun until I was 14. A gun big enough to kill a deer is a bit too much for an 8-year old to handle or even carry along while hunting. IMO.

So, I shot my first deer at 14. I had to track it down to shoot it again to kill it, as I missed the kill shot. Then I had to drag the dead deer back to the truck, which was very hard work. I remember the dirt on it's wide-open eyes & on it's tongue. Later, I butchered it. Then we ate it. I remember thinking that was a god-awful lot of work for a lump of blackened meat which I did not like the taste of (birds are worse). I never killed another thing, though I went hunting many times.

I grew up to be a vegetarian, though not because of any hunting experience. I have read up enough on the meat business to know I don't want to eat any of that unless I have no other choice. Not a hardship. I don't like meat anyway.

Humans will kill. It's what they do. We will kill every last one of anything & then turn around to genetically engineer a replacement so we can kill it to extinction again. Nothing can be done to change that.
 12/29/2013 03:13:00 PM · #53
The concern expressed by the non-Americans among us isn't so much about the hunting part, or the killing of 'defenceless' animals part; it's about the apparent American cultural imperative; that guns are a solution; that guns are a legitimate recreational pursuit. It's simply alien to the rest of us. Beyond rational understanding.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I grew up in the bush; the real bush. I owned my first rifle at age 9. I shot animals for the pot, and to control feral populations. In my many years in the military I was, among other things, a special weapons instructor. I'd wager that I am more familiar with more firearms than any of you, with the possible exception of Cowboy himself (though I actually doubt even that). But for me, as a non-American, it was never a cultural issue. Guns were part of my life back then, but they never defined me as a person. I was never 'sooo proud' of myself, nor of anyone that I taught to use firearms. I think that is a difference that those of us who live elsewhere can't understand, and are very uncomfortable about ... guns aren't something to be proud of. They may in some situations be justified, but not celebrated for their own sake.
 12/29/2013 03:21:27 PM · #54
Originally posted by ubique:
The concern expressed by the non-Americans among us isn't so much about the hunting part, or the killing of 'defenceless' animals part; it's about the apparent American cultural imperative; that guns are a solution; that guns are a legitimate recreational pursuit. It's simply alien to the rest of us. Beyond rational understanding.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I grew up in the bush; the real bush. I owned my first rifle at age 9. I shot animals for the pot, and to control feral populations. In my many years in the military I was, among other things, a special weapons instructor. I'd wager that I am more familiar with more firearms than any of you, with the possible exception of Cowboy himself (though I actually doubt even that). But for me, as a non-American, it was never a cultural issue. Guns were part of my life back then, but they never defined me as a person. I was never 'sooo proud' of myself, nor of anyone that I taught to use firearms. I think that is a difference that those of us who live elsewhere can't understand, and are very uncomfortable about ... guns aren't something to be proud of. They may in some situations be justified, but not celebrated for their own sake.

hear hear
 12/29/2013 03:27:39 PM · #55
Originally posted by ubique:
The concern expressed by the non-Americans among us isn't so much about the hunting part, or the killing of 'defenceless' animals part; it's about the apparent American cultural imperative; that guns are a solution; that guns are a legitimate recreational pursuit. It's simply alien to the rest of us. Beyond rational understanding.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I grew up in the bush; the real bush. I owned my first rifle at age 9. I shot animals for the pot, and to control feral populations. In my many years in the military I was, among other things, a special weapons instructor. I'd wager that I am more familiar with more firearms than any of you, with the possible exception of Cowboy himself (though I actually doubt even that). But for me, as a non-American, it was never a cultural issue. Guns were part of my life back then, but they never defined me as a person. I was never 'sooo proud' of myself, nor of anyone that I taught to use firearms. I think that is a difference that those of us who live elsewhere can't understand, and are very uncomfortable about ... guns aren't something to be proud of. They may in some situations be justified, but not celebrated for their own sake.


The joke of course, is sorta on you...

Even in rural places like this Americans in general aren't actually exposed to guns on a daily basis, unless they watch TV anyway...

Frankly, with the exceptions of hoods and rednecks, you rarely see anyone with a gun, and it's not a common topic of conversation.. I know that I talk more to foreigners about guns than Americans, generally we approach it as a non-issue, but there is a group who feels a need to be vocal about it.

As for me? I think they have a purpose and reason, and I don't know that anything about guns are "Beyond rational understanding".. I think much of what is referred to as 'rational' by both sides is actually a load of horseshit. Guns aren't the solution to most problems, and they're not something that you can fix with a ban.. Frankly, like it or not, much of America's violence problem has shit nothing to do with guns, and EVERYTHING to do with certain pockets of society who's acculturation spawns violent behavior and homicidal acts - guns or not we'd still have a serious issue with violence here.

Really, I know that to many foreigners there probably seems to be more of a gun culture here than there really is, but the reality is that most normal Americans spend very little time thinking about guns or gun ownership.
 12/29/2013 03:28:42 PM · #56
Originally posted by ubique:
The concern expressed by the non-Americans among us isn't so much about the hunting part, or the killing of 'defenceless' animals part; it's about the apparent American cultural imperative; that guns are a solution; that guns are a legitimate recreational pursuit. It's simply alien to the rest of us. Beyond rational understanding.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I grew up in the bush; the real bush. I owned my first rifle at age 9. I shot animals for the pot, and to control feral populations. In my many years in the military I was, among other things, a special weapons instructor. I'd wager that I am more familiar with more firearms than any of you, with the possible exception of Cowboy himself (though I actually doubt even that). But for me, as a non-American, it was never a cultural issue. Guns were part of my life back then, but they never defined me as a person. I was never 'sooo proud' of myself, nor of anyone that I taught to use firearms. I think that is a difference that those of us who live elsewhere can't understand, and are very uncomfortable about ... guns aren't something to be proud of. They may in some situations be justified, but not celebrated for their own sake.


Beautifully said!!!!

I eat meat, so I have no right to complain about the killing part. My problem with this is mostly the glorification.
 12/29/2013 03:33:59 PM · #57
Originally posted by Beetle:
My problem with this is mostly the glorification.


Of what? Guns, gun ownership, or violence?

I don't have any problem with gun ownership, but I think it's a rather silly thing to glorify..

Violence is glorified in popular culture hugely, and I absolutely agree with you on this point - but, note that the media glorifies this crap for ratings and makes more of it than it's worth really.. As I noted above, our problem isn't a problem of guns or gun ownership, or lack of gun regulations (although we aren't exactly great in that area), our problem is a problem with the culture of violence.

So, we may agree here, but I'm not entirely sure.
 12/29/2013 03:46:05 PM · #58
Cory, you are obviously passionate and 100% set in your opinion about this. You have clearly presented your beliefs on this subject countless times before. Your arguments (or rationalizations) are very much practised, possibly even neatly listed somewhere in case you should forget one in the heat of the moment.

I could type until my fingers bleed and have a snowball's chance in hell of you ever truly considering a single word that is said to you if you don't already agree with it.

I don't feel like talking to a wall, hence I will NOT get into this with you. There is nothing I could say that would make the tiniest bit of difference in your head (that last "you" is actually plural..... you and others who think exactly like you).

Just be glad that YOU already get to have it your way, anyhow.

Have a nice day.
 12/29/2013 03:58:04 PM · #59
so its alright for aliens to hunt and kill humans
even 8 year olds
its all about empathy
right?
 12/29/2013 04:01:03 PM · #60
Originally posted by Cory:

The joke of course, is sorta on you...

Even in rural places like this Americans in general aren't actually exposed to guns on a daily basis, unless they watch TV anyway...

Frankly, with the exceptions of hoods and rednecks, you rarely see anyone with a gun, and it's not a common topic of conversation.. I know that I talk more to foreigners about guns than Americans, generally we approach it as a non-issue, but there is a group who feels a need to be vocal about it.

As for me? I think they have a purpose and reason, and I don't know that anything about guns are "Beyond rational understanding".. I think much of what is referred to as 'rational' by both sides is actually a load of horseshit. Guns aren't the solution to most problems, and they're not something that you can fix with a ban.. Frankly, like it or not, much of America's violence problem has shit nothing to do with guns, and EVERYTHING to do with certain pockets of society who's acculturation spawns violent behavior and homicidal acts - guns or not we'd still have a serious issue with violence here.

Really, I know that to many foreigners there probably seems to be more of a gun culture here than there really is, but the reality is that most normal Americans spend very little time thinking about guns or gun ownership.


But look at the context of the post Cory - the title of this thread and Adam's history of taking what many of us consider to be an extremist view on guns (and politics). The whole thread is (in my view) a ploy to bait the many people who he knew would object to the tone. The 'proud-of' story is a cover for some liberal-baiting.

I think many of us can accept hunting for food and accept it as a more moral position than supporting the inefficient business of retail meat, but I don't believe that's the issue - nor (really) is the story of a little girl growing up safely around guns. This is about Adam thumping his republican American chest in public (again).

(Sorry for being so outspoken Adam)

Of course, that's his right - he can express whatever he wishes; but in this context it seems strange that you are trying to argue that talk about guns doesn't happen very often... as this is a context in which Adam has orchestrated a situation (once again) where we do just that.
 12/29/2013 04:21:19 PM · #61
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Natasha:
To me , as a Brit, the concept of taking a tiny child hunting with a gun, is just beyond comprehension!! Yes, we have/ had hunting int this country but children and guns do not mix....just my british opinion:)


Why? Because it can be dangerous?

I suppose that it also would follow logically that children shouldn't play sports, or race in motor sports, or go hiking, or swimming, or any activity that is inherently dangerous?

I'm honestly hoping that you have some reason beyond 'children shouldn't be exposed to danger'... My thinking says that if you aren't exposed early, you're always going to be at least somewhat intimidated by the danger at best, and terrified into avoidance at worst.

(Disclaimer: I grew up shooting guns, riding horses, exploring wilderness, making my own fireworks, butchering animals, riding three-wheeler type ATV's, and generally doing whatever I pleased..)


I know that we are coming from totally different places, it's not that children shouldn't be exposed to danger, I take my 4 year old horse riding, we do all the outdoorsy stuff and think that is the way children learn best. What I have a problem is is violence and to me guns are violent and not needed in a child's innocent life.
My uncle shoots and hunts and I don't like it but that's his choice but I don't see why children need to use a tool for destruction....just my opinion. Maybe it's a boy thing? LOL
 12/29/2013 04:23:55 PM · #62
Originally posted by Beetle:
Cory, you are obviously passionate and 100% set in your opinion about this. You have clearly presented your beliefs on this subject countless times before. Your arguments (or rationalizations) are very much practised, possibly even neatly listed somewhere in case you should forget one in the heat of the moment.

I could type until my fingers bleed and have a snowball's chance in hell of you ever truly considering a single word that is said to you if you don't already agree with it.

I don't feel like talking to a wall, hence I will NOT get into this with you. There is nothing I could say that would make the tiniest bit of difference in your head (that last "you" is actually plural..... you and others who think exactly like you).

Just be glad that YOU already get to have it your way, anyhow.

Have a nice day.


Oh, ok. Shame you think that of me. You've got it quite wrong on that account as well, I assure you.

Do have a nice day yourself though, and be glad that YOU already get to have it your way there as well.
 12/29/2013 04:38:12 PM · #63
I'm so proud of my (2) year old granddaughter. We were in the yard the other day and a couple of deer strolled on in, (as they often do), when with a tug on my pant leg she said "Aren't they beautiful Grandpa, please, hurry up, go get your camera".

Message edited by author 2013-12-29 16:38:35.
 12/29/2013 04:38:54 PM · #64
Originally posted by Paul:
Originally posted by Cory:

The joke of course, is sorta on you...

Even in rural places like this Americans in general aren't actually exposed to guns on a daily basis, unless they watch TV anyway...

Frankly, with the exceptions of hoods and rednecks, you rarely see anyone with a gun, and it's not a common topic of conversation.. I know that I talk more to foreigners about guns than Americans, generally we approach it as a non-issue, but there is a group who feels a need to be vocal about it.

As for me? I think they have a purpose and reason, and I don't know that anything about guns are "Beyond rational understanding".. I think much of what is referred to as 'rational' by both sides is actually a load of horseshit. Guns aren't the solution to most problems, and they're not something that you can fix with a ban.. Frankly, like it or not, much of America's violence problem has shit nothing to do with guns, and EVERYTHING to do with certain pockets of society who's acculturation spawns violent behavior and homicidal acts - guns or not we'd still have a serious issue with violence here.

Really, I know that to many foreigners there probably seems to be more of a gun culture here than there really is, but the reality is that most normal Americans spend very little time thinking about guns or gun ownership.


But look at the context of the post Cory - the title of this thread and Adam's history of taking what many of us consider to be an extremist view on guns (and politics). The whole thread is (in my view) a ploy to bait the many people who he knew would object to the tone. The 'proud-of' story is a cover for some liberal-baiting.

I think many of us can accept hunting for food and accept it as a more moral position than supporting the inefficient business of retail meat, but I don't believe that's the issue - nor (really) is the story of a little girl growing up safely around guns. This is about Adam thumping his republican American chest in public (again).

(Sorry for being so outspoken Adam)

Of course, that's his right - he can express whatever he wishes; but in this context it seems strange that you are trying to argue that talk about guns doesn't happen very often... as this is a context in which Adam has orchestrated a situation (once again) where we do just that.


Look, just laying shit out here as it is in reality - Adam isn't particularly well educated, operates on faith/belief, and often says stupid things without thinking about them first. Let's not judge everyone who isn't against guns by the 'Adam' measure. (Sorry Adam, but there's no getting around this, and he's right that you almost certainly knew this would be the result of such a post, there was basically zero chance DPC'ers would be like "Oh, that's awesome bro!")...

You're right about him being able to express whatever he wishes, and in fact, do take a look at the context, of course we're talking about guns, because Adam chose to mention this to the least receptive audience possible. However, my point still stands, I talk about this subject pretty much exclusively to non-Americans.

The fact is that outside of republican rednecks making generally unreasonable arguments, their liberal counterparts, and the Australians and Europeans who can always be counted on to tell us we've got it wrong, there's really no 'normal' Americans here who are terribly interested in the subject - outside of Kelli who was traumatized as a child by a sick bastard, and myself who basically thinks both sides of this thing are being unreasonable and can't see the forest for the trees. Notice how few Americans actually engage in these conversations here.

I assure you, Beetle doesn't have me pegged correctly at all on the issue, and Adam isn't someone I'd choose for a model gun owner. (sorry Adam, I have no intent to offend here, but you're at the center of this one, so I feel compelled to point out that I'm not entirely in agreement with your position on this either)..

Take my word for it, outside of these forum conversations guns play an extremely small role in my day to day life, and that's not at all unusual for Americans - we, as a cultural norm, do not have 15 guns around the house and we don't actually sleep with our pistols under the pillows. Really, I swear! :D

Message edited by author 2013-12-29 16:41:11.
 12/29/2013 04:55:13 PM · #65
Originally posted by Natasha:

I know that we are coming from totally different places, it's not that children shouldn't be exposed to danger, I take my 4 year old horse riding, we do all the outdoorsy stuff and think that is the way children learn best. What I have a problem is is violence and to me guns are violent and not needed in a child's innocent life.
My uncle shoots and hunts and I don't like it but that's his choice but I don't see why children need to use a tool for destruction....just my opinion. Maybe it's a boy thing? LOL


It probably is largely a boy thing. Frankly the war on boys has never been stronger or more terrible than it is today, but that's an entirely mostly different subject.

And I don't agree that guns are violent - no more than cars are death machines. People are violent - and they really don't need guns to be violent - our most violent periods as a species were long before the invention of guns.

-- I am curious, do you actually limit his intake of violent culture? That would mean no violent TV (and most TV is incredibly violent), no violent video games, absolutely no boxing, or martial arts, etc... I ask because that old adage, "Monkey see, Monkey do" is extremely true, especially for children, but also for the rest of us as well. I am very comfortable arguing that if you give a peaceful man a gun that he will not thereafter be a violent man.

..

Children live in a world full of dangers and 'innocence'(or in the way you are using the word, perhaps 'willful ignorance' is more appropriate?) is really just liability as I see it, teach them well, and teach them about all of the world, not just the beautiful things, lest they may become adults without ever developing the ability to really understand the nature of the world as a whole, good and bad. I've never understood the argument which is in favor of hiding reality from children in order to help them. Guns are a reality, as are many other things we'd probably rather not have our children face, like drugs, gangs, sex, religious extremism, criminals and psychopaths.. But isn't it better that we should teach them?
 12/29/2013 04:56:07 PM · #66
Originally posted by ubique:
The concern expressed by the non-Americans among us isn't so much about the hunting part, or the killing of 'defenceless' animals part; it's about the apparent American cultural imperative; that guns are a solution; that guns are a legitimate recreational pursuit. It's simply alien to the rest of us. Beyond rational understanding.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I grew up in the bush; the real bush. I owned my first rifle at age 9. I shot animals for the pot, and to control feral populations. In my many years in the military I was, among other things, a special weapons instructor. I'd wager that I am more familiar with more firearms than any of you, with the possible exception of Cowboy himself (though I actually doubt even that). But for me, as a non-American, it was never a cultural issue. Guns were part of my life back then, but they never defined me as a person. I was never 'sooo proud' of myself, nor of anyone that I taught to use firearms. I think that is a difference that those of us who live elsewhere can't understand, and are very uncomfortable about ... guns aren't something to be proud of. They may in some situations be justified, but not celebrated for their own sake.


I don't live "elsewhere" and I don't understand the gun culture here in the US. To be taught to use firearms appropriately?.. maybe in the military, maybe for hunting when the need for survival exists, but for children? And to be proud of it? I see trouble written all over this post.

12/29/2013 05:01:08 PM · #67
Originally posted by PennyStreet:


I don't live "elsewhere" and I don't understand the gun culture here in the US. To be taught to use firearms appropriately?.. maybe in the military, maybe for hunting when the need for survival exists, but for children? And to be proud of it? I see trouble written all over this post.


Maybe for hunting "when the need for survival exists".. ?

It sounds much like you're arguing that only government employees who are trained to kill humans should be given guns, except for those who have no way to get food other than hunting, and that hunting is wrong unless you have no other possible choice.

Surely you're more intelligent than that Penny? I've probably just misunderstood your post.

Also, just to be clear, how often do you actually see a gun in your day to day life Penny? When was the last time you actually laid eyes on a weapon that wasn't attached to an officer or soldier?

I've honestly started to get the feeling that the media has convinced the rest of the world that everyone walks around like old-west gunslingers in America, which simply couldn't be farther from the truth.

Message edited by author 2013-12-29 17:04:36.
 12/29/2013 05:20:08 PM · #68
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:


I don't live "elsewhere" and I don't understand the gun culture here in the US. To be taught to use firearms appropriately?.. maybe in the military, maybe for hunting when the need for survival exists, but for children? And to be proud of it? I see trouble written all over this post.


Maybe for hunting "when the need for survival exists".. ?

It sounds much like you're arguing that only government employees who are trained to kill humans should be given guns, except for those who have no way to get food other than hunting, and that hunting is wrong unless you have no other possible choice.

Surely you're more intelligent than that Penny? I've probably just misunderstood your post.


You're too quick for me, Cory, but I think you understood me perfectly.. It's an historic fact that military needs to train their personnel to use firearms safely and appropriately. And there are people for whom it is a necessity to kill their own food. Other than that, I don't think ordinary citizens need guns - whether I see them or not.. If you question my intelligence, so be it.

Certainly I am entitled to my opinion that teaching children how to use a gun is unnecessary, if not appalling.
 12/29/2013 05:23:39 PM · #69
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:


I don't live "elsewhere" and I don't understand the gun culture here in the US. To be taught to use firearms appropriately?.. maybe in the military, maybe for hunting when the need for survival exists, but for children? And to be proud of it? I see trouble written all over this post.


Maybe for hunting "when the need for survival exists".. ?

It sounds much like you're arguing that only government employees who are trained to kill humans should be given guns, except for those who have no way to get food other than hunting, and that hunting is wrong unless you have no other possible choice.

Surely you're more intelligent than that Penny? I've probably just misunderstood your post.

Also, just to be clear, how often do you actually see a gun in your day to day life Penny? When was the last time you actually laid eyes on a weapon that wasn't attached to an officer or soldier?

I've honestly started to get the feeling that the media has convinced the rest of the world that everyone walks around like old-west gunslingers in America, which simply couldn't be farther from the truth.


Have to agree that that is the image we have of America, the power of propaganda...saying that though, my other Uncle (not the hunting Uncle here in the UK) but another who moved to New York, told us that he owned a gun, the "Brits" in Britain family were fairly shocked by this. I suppose guns are only for soldiers and gangs plus the upper crust hunters:) Even the police don't carry guns here (except for the specialist armed response units-of which there are very few) we are just not used to guns or talking about them!
Each to his own....
12/29/2013 05:26:46 PM · #70
I can't believe I just read through three entire pages of this, and not once was a photo posted. Not even of Popcorn....
 12/29/2013 05:37:47 PM · #71
12/29/2013 05:38:42 PM · #72
Originally posted by ubique:
The concern expressed by the non-Americans among us isn't so much about the hunting part, or the killing of 'defenceless' animals part; it's about the apparent American cultural imperative; that guns are a solution; that guns are a legitimate recreational pursuit. It's simply alien to the rest of us. Beyond rational understanding.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I grew up in the bush; the real bush. I owned my first rifle at age 9. I shot animals for the pot, and to control feral populations. In my many years in the military I was, among other things, a special weapons instructor. I'd wager that I am more familiar with more firearms than any of you, with the possible exception of Cowboy himself (though I actually doubt even that). But for me, as a non-American, it was never a cultural issue. Guns were part of my life back then, but they never defined me as a person. I was never 'sooo proud' of myself, nor of anyone that I taught to use firearms. I think that is a difference that those of us who live elsewhere can't understand, and are very uncomfortable about ... guns aren't something to be proud of. They may in some situations be justified, but not celebrated for their own sake.


Originally posted by Paul:
the title of this thread and Adam's history of taking what many of us consider to be an extremist view on guns (and politics). The whole thread is (in my view) a ploy to bait the many people who he knew would object to the tone. The 'proud-of' story is a cover for some liberal-baiting.

I think many of us can accept hunting for food and accept it as a more moral position than supporting the inefficient business of retail meat, but I don't believe that's the issue - nor (really) is the story of a little girl growing up safely around guns. This is about Adam thumping his republican American chest in public (again).

(Sorry for being so outspoken Adam)

Of course, that's his right - he can express whatever he wishes; but in this context it seems strange that you are trying to argue that talk about guns doesn't happen very often... as this is a context in which Adam has orchestrated a situation (once again) where we do just that.


Originally posted by Trotterjay:
I'm so proud of my (2) year old granddaughter. We were in the yard the other day and a couple of deer strolled on in, (as they often do), when with a tug on my pant leg she said "Aren't they beautiful Grandpa, please, hurry up, go get your camera".


Originally posted by PennyStreet:
I don't live "elsewhere" and I don't understand the gun culture here in the US. To be taught to use firearms appropriately?.. maybe in the military, maybe for hunting when the need for survival exists, but for children? And to be proud of it? I see trouble written all over this post.


Best quotes here :)
 12/29/2013 05:58:49 PM · #73
Originally posted by PennyStreet:


You're too quick for me, Cory, but I think you understood me perfectly.. It's an historic fact that military needs to train their personnel to use firearms safely and appropriately. And there are people for whom it is a necessity to kill their own food. Other than that, I don't think ordinary citizens need guns - whether I see them or not.. If you question my intelligence, so be it.

Certainly I am entitled to my opinion that teaching children how to use a gun is unnecessary, if not appalling.


I don't know if I should question your intelligence or not - but I generally believe you to be a smart person, and I know that you are completely right about being entitled to your opinion. Now, let's see if I can't influence your opinion here a little bit.

What I do know is that by your measure, no private citizen should be armed, as there isn't a citizen in the nation for whom it can't be argued that hunting isn't absolutely necessary. I'm certain I don't agree with that. And given that at least two of the recent shooting rampages were actually done by military personnel, I don't know that this helps your premise much - in fact, in terms of raw numbers, the probability of military personnel carrying out mass shootings is about the same as the probability of teenage males doing so. Essentially they're both top-tier risks statistically speaking. (numbers: 1 million active duty men in the military, 10 million teenage boys)..

What I hope you can understand is that there are certain groups of high-risk people, for whom gun-ownership is a much higher risk than it is for the general population. I don't know that I could ever support any measure that attempts to create a one-size-fits-all solution for the issue. Gun crime isn't a major problem across all demographics, and in fact, much of it is isolated within a small number of demographic groups..

I hope someone has a rational and reasonable proposal as to how we fairly and effectively deal with that reality. I really don't know that I do, but someone must, and fair doesn't mean that everyone is treated the same - that's most certainly not fair, and would fail to take the reality of the situation into account.

12/29/2013 06:02:53 PM · #74
Originally posted by Natasha:
Originally posted by Cory:
....

I've honestly started to get the feeling that the media has convinced the rest of the world that everyone walks around like old-west gunslingers in America, which simply couldn't be farther from the truth.


Have to agree that that is the image we have of America, the power of propaganda......


Indeed, that IS the power of propaganda, and I suspect much of America believes this narrative as well.

Really though, I promise you, it's not common to see someone with a gun here - it's so uncommon that the act of carrying a gun down the street is often enough to get the police to respond.

I think the first thing that needs to happen is that everyone needs to realize that the situation isn't quite what the media portrays. But reality doesn't grab ratings or sell newspapers does it?
 12/29/2013 06:20:15 PM · #75
The solution, Cory, is quite simple: the only people who should be forever disqualified from owning guns are the people who want to. And that works no matter where you live.
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