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12/14/2013 01:49:29 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by pamb:
What pissed me off earlier and still does is the patronising bullshit and name calling crap. Unnecessary. |
Agreed. My wife calls me that all the time and enough is enough. |
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12/14/2013 04:56:41 AM · #102 |
Originally posted by sjhuls:
Originally posted by bvy:
Originally posted by sjhuls:
Had a look through your photos, snapshots would be a better way to put it. Just pointing the camera and taking photos of whatever is in front of your eyes. With little thought behind them. |
Some of us -- many of us, perhaps -- don't define "snapshot" that way. Please come up with another term that doesn't insult those of who proudly make snapshots ... |
... My major complaint is by those people who don't know how to use their camera and then claim it is because it is their style. I think that is a load of crap. |
I think you're confusing photography with photographs.
1. Snapshots are vital and spontaneous, while photography is deliberate and often ponderous. Snapshots usually give life to a moment, while photography usually crushes the life out of a moment.
2. Many more interesting, original and durable photographs are produced by happily ignorant adventurers with cellphones than by accomplished photographers with all the gear and expertise.
3. Most of the people who think of themselves as serious photographers are actually camera enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with that, but it rarely has much connection with photographs of any substance. |
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12/14/2013 05:19:25 AM · #103 |
| nail head on the ^^^ make that man the king |
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12/14/2013 06:20:24 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by ubique:
I think you're confusing photography with photographs.
1. Snapshots are vital and spontaneous, while photography is deliberate and often ponderous. Snapshots usually give life to a moment, while photography usually crushes the life out of a moment.
2. Many more interesting, original and durable photographs are produced by happily ignorant adventurers with cellphones than by accomplished photographers with all the gear and expertise.
3. Most of the people who think of themselves as serious photographers are actually camera enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with that, but it rarely has much connection with photographs of any substance. |
I have no issue with your opinion nor your right to express it. Perhaps it would sound slightly less pretentious if it was prefaced with "in my opinion" rather than being presented as unassailable fact. |
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12/14/2013 06:24:49 AM · #105 |
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12/14/2013 06:37:00 AM · #106 |
I didn't say I agreed with it, in part or in whole, simply that I have no problem with anyone having their own concepts and opinions about photography and its products.
Given ubique's reputation at this site, I do not consider his words as brave. Generally speaking he holds the respect of a lot of the members here and accordingly his statements are afforded immense consideration.
I'm putting forward my foot (potentially directly into my mouth) to stand up for the polished images I love so much. |
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12/14/2013 08:03:45 AM · #107 |
Yes, you're right: "In my opinion, ..."
It seems self-evident that a forum post is generally the poster's opinion. But if it's not then there it is, so qualified.
It's odd about the 'polished' versus 'unpolished' (or deliberate versus spontaneous) schools here at DPC. The former are very prickly when their stuff is dismissed, while the latter don't seem to mind at all. It's a telling difference, in my opinion.
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12/14/2013 08:55:56 AM · #108 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Yes, you're right: "In my opinion, ..."
It seems self-evident that a forum post is generally the poster's opinion. But if it's not then there it is, so qualified.
It's odd about the 'polished' versus 'unpolished' (or deliberate versus spontaneous) schools here at DPC. The former are very prickly when their stuff is dismissed, while the latter don't seem to mind at all. It's a telling difference, in my opinion. |
Actually we do mind we just don't say so as often. I haven't entered anything in months because of this very reason. I know several others who have quit this site because of it. I felt I had to say what I said because for some reason it is okay to knock on the polished photographs on this site because they win ribbons and we must be okay with that. But it isn't okay for me to say that I think SOME of the photos on this site look like snapshots and not well thought out. Mind you there are plenty of ubique's photos that I would think far from a snapshot as well as many others of his style. I could pick out many of my own that I think are more of a snapshot. But to get on here and say conclusively that the ribbon winners on this site photographs are fake is just insulting and needs to be challenged. |
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12/14/2013 09:18:24 AM · #109 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Originally posted by Enlightened:
I find this very interesting ΓΆ€“ no not the name calling - but the whole conversation about editing. |
My point, exactly.
And let me just say....
HOLY HIJACKED THREAD, BATMAN!!
Sorry, Susan. |
*wandering in, munching popcorn* No need to apologize, sistah, we're cool.
But what, this thread still has legs? Don't you people have Christmas shopping and stuff like that to do? Got it all done? OK, carry on then.
*wanders out* |
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12/14/2013 09:27:20 AM · #110 |
Originally posted by ubique:
3. Most of the people who think of themselves as serious photographers are actually camera enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with that, but it rarely has much connection with photographs of any substance. |
I also take serious offense to this statement. So because I choose to pay attention to lighting (actually I take great joy in it) I am just a camera enthusiast not a photographer???? Because I choose to have my images in focus (actually take great pride in it) I am a just a camera enthusiast? You think that I take more pride it the logistics of a photograph than the actual image? I don't think about the emotion it portrays? You would be wrong. I care just as much about those things as the others. Do I sometimes fail? Do I sometimes take photos of just things all the technical stuff right and no emotion? Of course I do, but I dare say you do the same thing sometimes. Not in the same way of course but I'm betting you can't call all of your photos works of art.
Message edited by author 2013-12-14 09:28:51. |
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12/14/2013 09:58:09 AM · #111 |
Originally posted by sjhuls:
... I'm betting you can't call all of your photos works of art. |
I can't call any of my photos works of art.
Originally posted by sjhuls:
I haven't entered anything in months because of this very reason. I know several others who have quit this site because of it. |
Surely you're not saying that you don't enter challenges lately because some people don't like your photographs and say so? And that others of like mind to yourself have quit DPC for that same reason?
You may have misread my earlier observation on the subject of accepting criticism, which could well be my fault. What I said was:
'It's odd about the 'polished' versus 'unpolished' (or deliberate versus spontaneous) schools here at DPC. The former are very prickly when their stuff is dismissed, while the latter don't seem to mind at all.'
By 'former' I meant polished/deliberate, and by 'latter' I meant unpolished/spontaneous. I'm sorry if I had expressed it awkwardly and confused you about my meaning.
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12/14/2013 10:04:35 AM · #112 |
"strange days indeed." --John Lennon
Happy Holidays! |
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12/14/2013 10:17:05 AM · #113 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by sjhuls:
... I'm betting you can't call all of your photos works of art. |
I can't call any of my photos works of art.
Originally posted by sjhuls:
I haven't entered anything in months because of this very reason. I know several others who have quit this site because of it. |
Surely you're not saying that you don't enter challenges lately because some people don't like your photographs and say so? And that others of like mind to yourself have quit DPC for that same reason?
You may have misread my earlier observation on the subject of accepting criticism, which could well be my fault. What I said was:
'It's odd about the 'polished' versus 'unpolished' (or deliberate versus spontaneous) schools here at DPC. The former are very prickly when their stuff is dismissed, while the latter don't seem to mind at all.'
By 'former' I meant polished/deliberate, and by 'latter' I meant unpolished/spontaneous. I'm sorry if I had expressed it awkwardly and confused you about my meaning. |
I guess I misinterpreted it because I feel the opposite to be true.
No I don't enter anymore because of the general ill will that is felt among this site, and the lack of appreciation for all types of images. I will occasionally enter here to keep up my creativity and artistic side, despite the fact that many don't find my work creative or artistic. I mostly do stock work now, which yes is a bit artless, and I am not afraid to admit that. Stock work has it's own kind of enjoyment and satisfaction for me, but it isn't the same as creating for instance my "bo peep" image. Which to you probably is clique and kitsch but to me is a work of art and very creative. |
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12/14/2013 11:19:18 AM · #114 |
Originally posted by sjhuls:
No I don't enter anymore because of the general ill will that is felt among this site, and the lack of appreciation for all types of images. |
OK thanks, I think I have finally grasped your point now. You almost always finish on the front page, while  jmritz, for example, almost always finishes on the last page. And your protest is not that your type of image isn't adequately appreciated (which it clearly is), but that his type of image isn't. But I don't think he really minds very much.
Message edited by author 2013-12-14 11:20:45. |
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12/14/2013 11:29:19 AM · #115 |
Popcorn, where's the popcorn?
Message edited by author 2013-12-14 12:13:27. |
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12/14/2013 12:01:30 PM · #116 |
This thread is hilarious.
People arguing that their opinion of what makes photography "good" is the correct one and that everyone else is an idiot. |
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12/14/2013 12:10:07 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
This thread is hilarious.
People arguing that their opinion of what makes photography "good" is the correct one and that everyone else is an idiot. |
It's all good ... |
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12/14/2013 12:36:55 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
This thread is hilarious.
People arguing that their opinion of what makes photography "good" is the correct one and that everyone else is an idiot. |
I hate Chinese food; am I wrong? |
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12/14/2013 12:37:39 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by see:
Originally posted by Spork99:
This thread is hilarious.
People arguing that their opinion of what makes photography "good" is the correct one and that everyone else is an idiot. |
I hate Chinese food; am I wrong? |
Almost certainly. :D |
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12/14/2013 12:44:16 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
This thread is hilarious.
People arguing that their opinion of what makes photography "good" is the correct one and that everyone else is an idiot. |
Well done. This is very nearly the point I was trying to make. No one is 'correct' ergo no one is 'an idiot'. To say as much is the insult. |
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12/14/2013 12:50:58 PM · #121 |
Paul, Paul, Paul,
I'm so happy you're back, because you have such a clear vision and a skill at writing. HOWEVER...
Originally posted by ubique:
[quote=sjhuls] [quote=bvy] [quote=sjhuls]
1. Snapshots are vital and spontaneous, while photography is deliberate and often ponderous. Snapshots usually give life to a moment, while photography usually crushes the life out of a moment. Both approaches involve significant "consideration". The vast majority of "snapshots" taken with cellphones etc, are also set-ups of some kind. The percent of "vital and spontaneous" images that result in anything vaguely "interesting" (a subjective term to be sure) is minuscule. To assert that ALL snapshots are brilliant is as absurd as declaring that ALL "photographs" are lifeless.
2. Many more interesting, original and durable photographs are produced by happily ignorant adventurers with cellphones than by accomplished photographers with all the gear and expertise. Well, of course there is. By sheer volume alone, and because there are FAR more "happily ignorant adventurers" than anything else on the planet, this is certain to be the case! For every "deliberate and ponderous" photograph created there are at least 100,000 "snapshots". Even if only a fraction of a percent of those "snapshots" are any "good" (more subjectivity here), there are clearly going to be far more of them. Sheesh!
3. Most of the people who think of themselves as serious photographers are actually camera enthusiasts. Nothing wrong with that, but it rarely has much connection with photographs of any substance. Yeah, I'm with Jenn on this. A rather pedantic, insulting, and grossly over-assuming, generalizing statement. Certainly "some" people. But "most" of the people??? And what's a "serious photographer"? I happen to be quite silly. But I'm passionate about fill-in-this-space-with-the-appropriate-and-acceptable-term-for-what-happens-when-we-allow-light-to-enter-through-an-opening-of-some-sort-in-some-kind-of-device. |
Stop generalizing, dear. |
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12/14/2013 04:25:27 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
Paul, Paul, Paul,
I'm so happy you're back, because you have such a clear vision and a skill at writing. HOWEVER...
[quote=ubique] [quote=sjhuls] [quote=bvy] [quote=sjhuls]
1. Snapshots are vital and spontaneous, while photography is deliberate and often ponderous. Snapshots usually give life to a moment, while photography usually crushes the life out of a moment. Both approaches involve significant "consideration". The vast majority of "snapshots" taken with cellphones etc, are also set-ups of some kind. The percent of "vital and spontaneous" images that result in anything vaguely "interesting" (a subjective term to be sure) is minuscule. To assert that ALL snapshots are brilliant is as absurd as declaring that ALL "photographs" are lifeless.
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Don't put words in his mouth. He didn't say "ALL" and simply stated this is what he usually sees. Fair enough to disagree but at least understand what he's saying. |
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12/14/2013 04:35:53 PM · #123 |
You're right, he didn't say 'all'. He said 'usually'. Which indicates the majority, usually.
Jenn, Johanna etc. thankyou for continuing this thread. I've been limited to dodgy service from a phone and have only been able to keep up intermittently. Thankyou for writing much more eloquently than I am able to. |
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12/14/2013 04:40:49 PM · #124 |
I forget... what was the question?
Ray |
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12/14/2013 04:49:02 PM · #125 |
| I think the current topic is what makes a better image, one that is seen or one that is created. For me, these are not mutually exclusive but I find the topic interesting. |
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