Is this hypocrisy? - DPChallenge Forums

01/19/2013 03:10:52 PM · #701

Originally posted by GeneralE:

I heard an interesting statisic the other day: Since the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy ("only") 44 years ago there have been approximately twice as many Americans killed by guns as US soldiers killed in every war we've ever fought, back to the Revolution.

Patrick Leahy (Senator from Vermont) notes that his state has vary few gun regulations, but one of them is that, when hunting deer with a semi-automatic weapon, you are limited to a capacity of six rounds ... and asks whether it's logical that we provide greater protection for deer than kids ...

Was there an increase in Vermont hunters dying from starvation or murdered by home intruders?

Message edited by author 2013-01-19 15:11:13.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/19/2013 04:08:15 PM · #702

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by GeneralE:
I heard an interesting statisic the other day: Since the assassinations of Martin Luther King Jr. and Robert Kennedy ("only") 44 years ago there have been approximately twice as many Americans killed by guns as US soldiers killed in every war we've ever fought, back to the Revolution.

Patrick Leahy (Senator from Vermont) notes that his state has vary few gun regulations, but one of them is that, when hunting deer with a semi-automatic weapon, you are limited to a capacity of six rounds ... and asks whether it's logical that we provide greater protection for deer than kids ...

Was there an increase in Vermont hunters dying from starvation or murdered by home intruders?

Interesting... I remember my father telling me that if he could not "down" what he wanted with two bullets he really did not belong in the bush. I guess he was just a much better shot than today's hunters eh?... or maybe the deer were not as fast then.

Ray

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

01/19/2013 05:26:46 PM · #703

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

â��I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.â�� Ronald Reagan

Without a Federal Class III firearms license (not easy to get) one can only purchase a semi automatic version of the AK-47, which, by definition is NOT a machine gun.

And in the meantime, AR-15's and other "assault" rifles have become very popular for hunting (coyotes and other varmints), sporting (military match shoots, 3gun competitions etc) and for defense (especially with ex-military due to their familiarity with the M4/M16).

David Ey

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

01/19/2013 05:44:20 PM · #704

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Flash:
This video is definately biased but does have a point.

Citizens against senseless violence video

Exactly how many of you gun control advocates would put a sign in YOUR front yard proclaiming your house as a "gun free" home?

... I would.

Ray

Photo please....and leave the sign up for one year too. Sleep well my friend.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/19/2013 05:48:41 PM · #705

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Flash:
This video is definately biased but does have a point.

Citizens against senseless violence video

Exactly how many of you gun control advocates would put a sign in YOUR front yard proclaiming your house as a "gun free" home?

... I would.

Ray

Photo please....and leave the sign up for one year too. Sleep well my friend.

Read the initial comment again... and yes I would have no problems putting up a sign that says exactly that... and I would sleep quite well, considering that I don't even lock the doors to my house.

Just as some have an irrational fear of guns...others have an irrational fear of being unarmed, and I feel sorry for both groups.

Ray

Message edited by author 2013-01-19 17:49:47.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

01/19/2013 06:13:28 PM · #706

Originally posted by David Ey:

I think we're on to something here. If it's true that intruders obey signs then you don't need a gun at all. Just post a Beware of ~~Dog~~ Gun sign in your front yard and presto, your home is secured.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

01/19/2013 06:49:09 PM · #707

It's Gun Appreciation Day. So, if you have guns, please take a moment today to thank them for being your firearms. Maybe buy them a nice card, or some flowers and candy or something. Just don't take them out to dinner or a movie; that doesn't always end well.

5 People Shot at Gun Shows on Gun Appreciation Day

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/19/2013 07:33:44 PM · #708

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Priceless... "...after a gun accidentally discharged and shot two people at the showâ��s safety check-in booth..."

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

01/19/2013 07:35:13 PM · #709

There was a pro gun demostration here today...They (I didnt participate) were in several areas that I passed by. They had picket signs and the works... I honked...they waved. Infact, there were alot of people giving them a short honk.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

01/19/2013 08:27:16 PM · #710

Originally posted by yanko:

There are about 2 million burglaries annually in the United States. There are 1/2 a million guns reported stolen annually in the United States. About 35% of American households own guns. It is hard to get a good number on the percentage of gun owners who store their guns in gun safes, but it looks to be around 30%. Some of those guns have to be with the owner when they are out of the house.

It looks to me as if having guns (that are not in a safe) in the house is likely to make you a target of thieves. After all what thief would not want a highly valuable, easily to sell untraceable (to them, not to the owner) firearm? If you have a "This house is protected by Smith & Wesson" sticker on the door, and no car in the driveway, you may as well not lock the doors.

01/19/2013 09:49:57 PM · #711

I went to the range today with my boss and a colleague who lives in NYC. He has only had the opportunity to go shooting once in his life and today he got to really go shooting. We spent the time focusing on gun safety, educating him on each of the firearms that I brought to shoot and their history. We spent 3 hours shooting and learning. He is an "Ivy League East Cost liberal" who now is educated and understands the proper use and safety of firearms. He said he would love to be able to do this with his wife but told me that he would need a a permit just to go to a shooting range to shoot in NYC. So continuing education and training is not possible for him.

During this time at the table next to us there was a Mother with her 4 kids 2 boys and 2 girls all pre teen. I noticed she was a new shooter by the timidness of her action and my boss pointed out that her finger was in the trigger when she went to load the gun, it was then I really started watching her. When she took her grip to start shooting she put her thumb behind the slide of her Glock 19. I jumped over to her table grabbed her hand (having been an instructor I can do this while protecting the trigger) and explained to her why I stopped her, it was that the placement of her weak hand thumb behind the slide. Shooting it like this would have ripped her thumb open most likely causing her to drop the gun and ending all shooting if favor of a trip to hospital to get some stitches. I showed her the correct modern grip she thanked me and commenced to shoot. I went back to shooting with my friends when I noticed that she had called one of her daughters over to shoot. This is when I told my friends that I needed to spend some time with the table next to us. I could not let a neophyte attempt to instruct her kids. I asked her to let me help with the basics and educate her and her kids. I spent the next 30 minutes teaching mom and kids on SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY, helped the kids shoot for the first time making sure they could handle the recoil and understood proper grip, stance and sight alignment. The girls we naturals! Once I returned to my table I continued to watch her, and as she had each of the kids come up to shoot she was now re-enforcing the safety rules to her kids and in turn herself.

There were over 200 people shooting at my club today and over 600 firearms in one place with new shooters, experienced shooters, experience range masters and club members without one incident. Why? Because of responsible firearm owners.

But my story reinforces my opinion that making some training a requirement is not a bad thing.

Anyway I just thought I would share some positive experiences.

Message edited by author 2013-01-20 00:06:02.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/20/2013 05:12:55 AM · #712

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

... He said he would love to be able to do this with his wife but told me that he would need a a permit just to go to a shooting range to shoot in NYC. So continuing education and training is not possible for him.

Just out of curiosity, what type of permit are we talking about here...a permit to convey?

Ray

David Ey

Nikon D80

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

01/20/2013 10:53:45 AM · #713

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by David Ey:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Flash:
This video is definately biased but does have a point.

Citizens against senseless violence video

Exactly how many of you gun control advocates would put a sign in YOUR front yard proclaiming your house as a "gun free" home?

... I would.

Ray

Photo please....and leave the sign up for one year too. Sleep well my friend.

Read the initial comment again... and yes I would have no problems putting up a sign that says exactly that... and I would sleep quite well, considering that I don't even lock the doors to my house.

Just as some have an irrational fear of guns...others have an irrational fear of being unarmed, and I feel sorry for both groups.

Ray

Does this mean you're putting up the sign?

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

01/20/2013 11:50:32 AM · #714

Feds investigate how suspected white supremacist -- a felon -- obtained arsenal

01/20/2013 01:42:30 PM · #715

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
... He said he would love to be able to do this with his wife but told me that he would need a a permit just to go to a shooting range to shoot in NYC. So continuing education and training is not possible for him.

Just out of curiosity, what type of permit are we talking about here...a permit to convey?

Ray

I need to talk to him more about it but it is not a permit to convey. He needs a permit just to go and rent a pistol to shoot. In NYC I guess the only thing you can go rent and shoot at a shooting range is a .22LR Rifle anything else requires a permit to shoot. We are not even talking about owning or transporting.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/20/2013 01:46:43 PM · #716

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Feds investigate how suspected white supremacist -- a felon -- obtained arsenal

This is fantastic, this discovery through law enforcement investigation of a criminal who is hell bent on breaking the law was caught and discovered his illegal cache of firearms and the the existing laws on the books will put him away. I love it! This is how it is supposed to work.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/20/2013 01:57:35 PM · #717

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

... you can go rent and shoot at a shooting range is a .22LR Rifle anything else requires a permit to shoot.

One way to control the accumulation of huge amounts of ammunition might be to make sales over a certain quanitity be limited only to on-site at shooting ranges, and to control the price to prevent gouging in a monopoly market.

01/20/2013 02:10:06 PM · #718

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Feds investigate how suspected white supremacist -- a felon -- obtained arsenal

This is fantastic, this discovery through law enforcement investigation of a criminal who is hell bent on breaking the law was caught and discovered his illegal cache of firearms and the the existing laws on the books will put him away. I love it! This is how it is supposed to work.

With all due respect this is not how it should work. We shouldn't have to rely on the criminal to commit other crimes that are easier to investigate just to prosecute illegal gun ownership. It's a good thing the counterfeit sports jersey manufacturing industry doesn't have an NRA-like lobby making those crimes difficult to investigate otherwise this criminal would never have been found, period.

Message edited by author 2013-01-20 14:11:14.

01/20/2013 02:39:44 PM · #719

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Feds investigate how suspected white supremacist -- a felon -- obtained arsenal

This is fantastic, this discovery through law enforcement investigation of a criminal who is hell bent on breaking the law was caught and discovered his illegal cache of firearms and the the existing laws on the books will put him away. I love it! This is how it is supposed to work.

With all due respect this is not how it should work. We shouldn't have to rely on the criminal to commit other crimes that are easier to investigate just to prosecute illegal gun ownership. It's a good thing the counterfeit sports jersey manufacturing industry doesn't have an NRA-like lobby making those crimes difficult to investigate otherwise this criminal would never have been found, period.

I understand your point but the way I see it is that it would be OUR rights restricted in favor of your approach and this where we differ in our opinions. I have the upmost respect for you Man and we may have to just agree do disagree here.

01/20/2013 02:48:47 PM · #720

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Feds investigate how suspected white supremacist -- a felon -- obtained arsenal

This is fantastic, this discovery through law enforcement investigation of a criminal who is hell bent on breaking the law was caught and discovered his illegal cache of firearms and the the existing laws on the books will put him away. I love it! This is how it is supposed to work.

With all due respect this is not how it should work. We shouldn't have to rely on the criminal to commit other crimes that are easier to investigate just to prosecute illegal gun ownership. It's a good thing the counterfeit sports jersey manufacturing industry doesn't have an NRA-like lobby making those crimes difficult to investigate otherwise this criminal would never have been found, period.

I understand your point but the way I see it is that it would be OUR rights restricted in favor of your approach and this where we differ in our opinions. I have the upmost respect for you Man and we may have to just agree do disagree here.

Same here Erick. Your opinion has been quite reasonable. Just don't stay too long in rant otherwise it might start to degrade over time. :P

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/20/2013 02:52:29 PM · #721

No Sh*t! :-D

blindjustice

Canon EOS-7D

01/20/2013 03:16:19 PM · #722

shot at gun shows

strange times. These people should start collecting Pez dispensers.