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01/10/2013 12:15:49 PM · #476 |
Kennesaw, GA has had a law mandating gun ownership (with ammunition) for every head of household since 1982.
It was one of Family Circle magazine's 2007 "10 best towns for families"
Crime rates are well below average.
Originally posted by Kennesaw City Ordinances:
[Sec 34-21][19]
(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.
(b)Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony. |
The year before the ordinance passed, there were 65 burglaries, the year after (1983) there were 26 and just 11 in 1984. |
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01/10/2013 12:17:45 PM · #477 |
| Oh, and with respect to the original thread topic, I do find it hypocritical that Hollywood is anti gun but pro gun movies. Nice byproduct of a commercial society where money talks. It is what it is. |
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01/10/2013 12:20:54 PM · #478 |
| So if I did not personally wish to own a weapon, I would have been forced to leave town?? What was the penalty if you did not comply, do you know? |
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01/10/2013 12:25:41 PM · #479 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
So if I did not personally wish to own a weapon, I would have been forced to leave town?? What was the penalty if you did not comply, do you know? |
That was covered in part b. You would be exempt as a conscientious objector. |
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01/10/2013 12:29:32 PM · #480 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Melethia:
So if I did not personally wish to own a weapon, I would have been forced to leave town?? What was the penalty if you did not comply, do you know? |
That was covered in part b. You would be exempt as a conscientious objector. |
Part b sort of makes part a silly, doesn't it? What, exactly, was being legislated?
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01/10/2013 12:40:59 PM · #481 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Melethia:
So if I did not personally wish to own a weapon, I would have been forced to leave town?? What was the penalty if you did not comply, do you know? |
That was covered in part b. You would be exempt as a conscientious objector. |
Part b sort of makes part a silly, doesn't it? What, exactly, was being legislated? |
And NOW you seem to be starting to understand why I'm so against trying to legislate a solution to this problem. |
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01/10/2013 01:02:14 PM · #482 |
| Hey, don't yell at me. First time I've posted on this thread. I live in the land where we legislate everything. Pretty sure we legislate when you can pee.... |
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01/10/2013 01:14:20 PM · #483 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Hey, don't yell at me. First time I've posted on this thread. I live in the land where we legislate everything. Pretty sure we legislate when you can pee.... |
a single word in caps is intended to convey emphasis instead of yelling which would be represented by an entire post in capital letters.
Message edited by author 2013-01-10 13:14:53. |
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01/10/2013 01:21:14 PM · #484 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Hey, don't yell at me. First time I've posted on this thread. I live in the land where we legislate everything. Pretty sure we legislate when you can pee.... |
a single word in caps is intended to convey emphasis instead of yelling which would be represented by an entire post in capital letters. |
Now you're being condescending with all lower case!
Message edited by author 2013-01-10 13:21:37.
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01/10/2013 01:36:46 PM · #485 |
I think it is a good idea for the head of household to own a gun. Like Spork said...crime actually went down...Put yourself in a criminal's shoes....You have decided to break into a house...but there are 2 houses. One you believe possibly has a gun and one that you know does not have a gun. Which house do you break into???
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01/10/2013 01:39:22 PM · #486 |
Originally posted by Cory:
a single word in caps is intended to convey emphasis instead of yelling which would be represented by an entire post in capital letters. |
Take advantage of the ability to easily format in Bold, Italic, or Underline mode and there will be no question of whether you are "yelling" or simply providing emphasis ... ;-) |
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01/10/2013 01:41:30 PM · #487 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by yanko:
Shot at? Never. Had a gun raised at me? Yes. I didn't grow up behind a white picket fence. As to you're point, I agree, we all pay for that bill. What you seem to dismiss so easily is the toll we pay for having guns. It's far greater and you don't have to get shot to pay for it either. Just look around you. We live in a world that has been shaped by violence. Stiffer gun control (ie none of this pussyfooting grandfather clauses) is just the tip of the iceberg.
Look, nobody is saying get rid of x guns means a completely safe society, but it's a start. There's a reason why prison guards don't carry guns around the cells. To do so would give prisoners too much of an opportunity to access those guns. However the lack of gun access doesn't stop the prisoners from finding other less effective weapons to use, if they are creative enough. The solution to that isn't to introduce more guns into the environment. Such is the same in society. We allow guns to be too accessible in this country. When a pipe breaks we turn off the water flow. We don't let it run and run until we fix other problems that may have led to the break in the first place. This doesn't me we ban all guns or treat everyone like a criminal but surely we can do more than where doing now. |
Yes, let's make the world MORE like prison. Great idea. |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by yanko:
... This doesn't me we ban all guns or treat everyone like a criminal but surely we can do more than where doing now. |
Good thing you added that, cause, ya know... It sounded kinda exactly like that, didn't it? |
It was added for the reading-comprehension-challenged. Not that it worked for Spork. |
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01/10/2013 01:42:03 PM · #488 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I think it is a good idea for the head of household to own a gun. Like Spork said...crime actually went down...Put yourself in a criminal's shoes....You have decided to break into a house...but there are 2 houses. One you believe possibly has a gun and one that you know does not have a gun. Which house do you break into??? |
So put one of those Protected by Smith & Wesson bumper stickers in your window ΓΆ€” if your theory is correct then the potential criminal won't be interested in finding out whether or not you're a liar ... |
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01/10/2013 01:43:02 PM · #489 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I think it is a good idea for the head of household to own a gun. Like Spork said...crime actually went down...Put yourself in a criminal's shoes....You have decided to break into a house...but there are 2 houses. One you believe possibly has a gun and one that you know does not have a gun. Which house do you break into??? |
I break into the house with the gun, steal it, and trade up to armed robbery at shops and banks because it's a pain in the neck to carry and fence stolen property. Since I'm a criminal, I don't always think rationally.
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01/10/2013 02:04:27 PM · #490 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Cory:
a single word in caps is intended to convey emphasis instead of yelling which would be represented by an entire post in capital letters. |
Take advantage of the ability to easily format in Bold, Italic, or Underline mode and there will be no question of whether you are "yelling" or simply providing emphasis ... ;-) |
Not as easy as one would like on a smartphone. |
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01/10/2013 02:08:34 PM · #491 |
Just to be fair to the "shoot em all and let god sort em out" crowd - I do wonder WTF we should do with people like this. And, remember kids - Knives DO kill.
The video of the girl hit by the car I think would have provided justification for shooting. The scooter theft probably wasn't justifiable, although it may be arguable - but the knife video, well.. I do wish that driver would have had a gun.
Message edited by author 2013-01-10 14:09:26. |
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01/10/2013 02:09:37 PM · #492 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I would bet that I have read more on this topic than most in this thread. |
And? Appeal to authority fallacy.
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Nice parsing Job. Looks like you missed the point and focused on the minutia. |
The devil is in the details.
I see little reason to continue in this discussion with the three main opposing parties. There's going to be no movement, and thus I would rather vice my ballsack. Time to block rant. |
OK if you feel that my expertise is a fallacy so be it and if you so deem, I will not stop you from taking your ball and going home.
Best regards,
-Erick |
Switzerland is a good example. I would be in favor of the US adopting their system. It seems to be working. It actually would fix a lot of things. Just think no more wars or federal budget problems! I'm curious though, are you only offering up this example to win an internet argument or do you actually support the terms of their gun ownership policies? |
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01/10/2013 02:18:10 PM · #493 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I would bet that I have read more on this topic than most in this thread. |
And? Appeal to authority fallacy.
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Nice parsing Job. Looks like you missed the point and focused on the minutia. |
The devil is in the details.
I see little reason to continue in this discussion with the three main opposing parties. There's going to be no movement, and thus I would rather vice my ballsack. Time to block rant. |
OK if you feel that my expertise is a fallacy so be it and if you so deem, I will not stop you from taking your ball and going home.
Best regards,
-Erick |
Switzerland is a good example. I would be in favor of the US adopting their system. It seems to be working. It actually would fix a lot of things. Just think no more wars or federal budget problems! I'm curious though, are you only offering up this example to win an internet argument or do you actually support the terms of their gun ownership policies? |
For me? That's a real hard question... Why? Because, the policy makes really good sense, although I would want ammo for sporting purposes.. The problem I have is that I simply don't trust the government, not in the conspiracy theory sort of way, but more in the gross incompetence and group-think way. If I was able to believe that the government would do a good job, then I'd be all for this. The problem is that I've been to the DMV and ridden public transportation, and have tried to understand the tax code. Frankly it's all a dysfunctional mess, and I see no reason to add to a workload that is already overwhelming the system, especially when they are already doing such a poor job on so many other things.
Can anyone here tell me why you actually think they will do a good job of this? I really, honestly, seek to understand your reasoning here. We can, and have, talked about gun statistics all day long - and I agree that at least the stats look promising (even if I think the stats are somewhat invalid due to inapplicability).. But if we look at the statistics concerning the effectiveness of our government, I think the argument becomes pretty clear - there's no way I'm going to be OK with someone who can't even agree to spend the money they've already spent making any of my decisions for me. They're really bad at this, really. If only I had confidence in them I have little doubt that my answer would be different, unfortunately they have proven, repeatedly, that they do not serve as representatives of anything more than their own best interests. |
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01/10/2013 02:38:20 PM · #494 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I would bet that I have read more on this topic than most in this thread. |
And? Appeal to authority fallacy.
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Nice parsing Job. Looks like you missed the point and focused on the minutia. |
The devil is in the details.
I see little reason to continue in this discussion with the three main opposing parties. There's going to be no movement, and thus I would rather vice my ballsack. Time to block rant. |
OK if you feel that my expertise is a fallacy so be it and if you so deem, I will not stop you from taking your ball and going home.
Best regards,
-Erick |
Switzerland is a good example. I would be in favor of the US adopting their system. It seems to be working. It actually would fix a lot of things. Just think no more wars or federal budget problems! I'm curious though, are you only offering up this example to win an internet argument or do you actually support the terms of their gun ownership policies? |
For me? That's a real hard question... Why? Because, the policy makes really good sense, although I would want ammo for sporting purposes.. The problem I have is that I simply don't trust the government, not in the conspiracy theory sort of way, but more in the gross incompetence and group-think way. If I was able to believe that the government would do a good job, then I'd be all for this. The problem is that I've been to the DMV and ridden public transportation, and have tried to understand the tax code. Frankly it's all a dysfunctional mess, and I see no reason to add to a workload that is already overwhelming the system, especially when they are already doing such a poor job on so many other things.
Can anyone here tell me why you actually think they will do a good job of this? I really, honestly, seek to understand your reasoning here. We can, and have, talked about gun statistics all day long - and I agree that at least the stats look promising (even if I think the stats are somewhat invalid due to inapplicability).. But if we look at the statistics concerning the effectiveness of our government, I think the argument becomes pretty clear - there's no way I'm going to be OK with someone who can't even agree to spend the money they've already spent making any of my decisions for me. They're really bad at this, really. If only I had confidence in them I have little doubt that my answer would be different, unfortunately they have proven, repeatedly, that they do not serve as representatives of anything more than their own best interests. |
The government is what we have to work with. There's lots of incompetent and negligent gun owners in this country as well. If the govt can't be trusted to regulate then many gun owners shouldn't be allowed to own guns. How do you suppose we fix both of these problems? Maybe we should turn the keys over to Switzerland and call them our daddy?
Message edited by author 2013-01-10 14:39:16. |
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01/10/2013 02:49:34 PM · #495 |
Originally posted by yanko:
The government is what we have to work with. There's lots of incompetent and negligent gun owners in this country as well. If the govt can't be trusted to regulate then many gun owners shouldn't be allowed to own guns. How do you suppose we fix both of these problems? Maybe we should turn the keys over to Switzerland and call them our daddy? |
Given the options, letting Switzerland take over does seems pretty darn good doesn't it? Think they could fix all the lazy m**%K*#s around here too?
Anyway, the problem here is that the gun owners aren't asking to regulate your life - the equivalent would be gun owners who insisted upon following you around with shouldered weapon, you know, just to make sure you're safe.
The idea here is pretty simple - "Just leave me alone please, your incompetence worries me to the point that I think I'm better off without your help. Thanks though."
Message edited by author 2013-01-10 14:52:01. |
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01/10/2013 03:30:14 PM · #496 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
I would bet that I have read more on this topic than most in this thread. |
And? Appeal to authority fallacy.
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Nice parsing Job. Looks like you missed the point and focused on the minutia. |
The devil is in the details.
I see little reason to continue in this discussion with the three main opposing parties. There's going to be no movement, and thus I would rather vice my ballsack. Time to block rant. |
OK if you feel that my expertise is a fallacy so be it and if you so deem, I will not stop you from taking your ball and going home.
Best regards,
-Erick |
Switzerland is a good example. I would be in favor of the US adopting their system. It seems to be working. It actually would fix a lot of things. Just think no more wars or federal budget problems! I'm curious though, are you only offering up this example to win an internet argument or do you actually support the terms of their gun ownership policies? |
I think it is a great system and if adopted I would follow the letter of the law, as I do now, but it could/would never happen here so understanding this I feel I need to be more pragmatic about it.
I am all for doing something. I have no issue with background checks or the requirement for training I just feel it is the State that needs to create these regulations not the Feds. Even though I am Gun owner and a NRA member it does not mean I march in lock step with all of their Ideology. The most important thing for me is no infringement on my 2A right, education, training and safety but I don't want to be made into a criminal. So I will continue to do the things that I know work from a grass roots kind of perspective like talking to my peers, lending advice and helping to educate those I come into contact with about the responsibility of gun ownership and safety.
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01/10/2013 03:36:59 PM · #497 |
EEEEEEEEEE........how have you been? :)
:P Same it seems, lmbo! (hugs) |
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01/10/2013 03:48:53 PM · #498 |
Originally posted by bergiekat:
EEEEEEEEEE........how have you been? :)
:P Same it seems, lmbo! (hugs) |
Hi ya love!!! Happy New Year! I am great and big hugs right back at ya! |
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01/10/2013 05:53:08 PM · #499 |
Originally posted by Cory:
NONE of these shooters/mass murderers are affluent, and this type of behavior(pay me), tends to be well correlated with poverty. |
I thought most of these mass shootings were carried out by middle-class white men.
Message edited by author 2013-01-10 17:54:52. |
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01/10/2013 05:56:42 PM · #500 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Flash:
Bear - The NRA clearly focuses on SAFE gun handling practices and makes it a paramount factor in any firearm training. Thus the NRA understands the inherant "danger" in the potential mis-use of firearms. |
Yeah, you're right, sorry. I was trying to think of a relatively acceptable name to attach to people like cowboy/spork who seem to be denying that "guns are dangerous", and my brain went out to lunch. |
Pretty much anything can be labelled as dangerous. Lets start with knives. Knives are dangerous so lets ban them. How about blow darts...(yes I know both are weapons and both are harmless unless there is an individual using them) As Cory said earlier about the hammer. A hammer is dangerous so lets just ban them too. My point is....attack the problem at it's root. 1st of all safety classes offered in school. Teach our young how to use and handle firearms. (this would help minimize accidents) Next enforce the laws already on the books. If you are a felon and posses a firearm, you get another felony with a heafty jail sentence. This would be a good start to making this country safer. |
... and I am still waiting for someone to give me a list of the number of mass murders committed by someone wielding a hammer.
With regards to teaching firearms training in schools, considering the sad shape of education in North America, this would not be at the forefront of my list of things to be taught to students.
I do wholeheartedly agree that a lot more needs to be done to enforce existing laws regarding firearms.
Ray |
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