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12/18/2012 10:26:06 PM · #1 |
Just a quick question about this rule
sharpen your entry using your editing software’s “sharpen” or equivalent option. The use of customizable sharpening tools, such as Unsharp Mask, is not allowed.
GIMP has a feature under Enhance called Sharpen, its just a slider back and forth with a number value of 1-100. Doesn't seem like anything that's "Customizable", but I could be wrong. Is that legal in Minimal to use??? |
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12/18/2012 10:28:03 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
Just a quick question about this rule
sharpen your entry using your editing software’s “sharpen” or equivalent option. The use of customizable sharpening tools, such as Unsharp Mask, is not allowed.
GIMP has a feature under Enhance called Sharpen, its just a slider back and forth with a number value of 1-100. Doesn't seem like anything that's "Customizable", but I could be wrong. Is that legal in Minimal to use??? |
sliders are bad... :(
Do they just have a sharpen without a slider?
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12/18/2012 10:53:48 PM · #3 |
Yup- sliders are your enemy, you'll face DQ.
For precedent here, see this image-
Richard kindly explained the DQ. |
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12/18/2012 10:58:31 PM · #4 |
I'm curious though, without a slider, how would you adjust the sharpen? There is no other option other than one slider that has a value of 1-100... It's not like there is a radius option or multiple sliders like an unsharpen mask...
It looks like this
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12/18/2012 11:14:15 PM · #5 |
| I think the idea is to only allow a small amount of non creatively-controlled sharpening. Submitting a RAW file would be the true minimal editing, but they allow jpgs because there is only a small amount of relatively uncontrolled sharpening that goes on during the compression the image. My understanding is that if you're Saving for Web in photoshop, you can use whichever mode you want, but it must be a one-time resize and similarly, if you're sharpening a JPG, you must use a very hands-off sharpen tool that goes along with the goal of Minimal Editing challenges trying to remove any influence due to editing wizardry. |
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12/18/2012 11:19:46 PM · #6 |
| Set it in your picture style settings instead, beforehand. Minimal is all about choosing these things beforehand if you can. Be very wary of anything done afterward. |
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12/18/2012 11:35:45 PM · #7 |
Sliding a slider is customizing the effect.
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12/18/2012 11:41:23 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by jomari:
Sliding a slider is customizing the effect. |
In the rules it clearly states that, You may: "sharpen your entry using your editing software’s “sharpen” or equivalent option. The use of customizable sharpening tools, such as Unsharp Mask, is not allowed."
how would you sharpen an entry without the use of a slider? I guess that's my question. Customizable to me means being able to customize features like radius, amount, and threshold that unsharpen mask gives you... Maybe I'm wrong but to have a slider that simply sharpens more or less is not customizable... or is it??? LoL..
Message edited by author 2012-12-18 23:42:09. |
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12/18/2012 11:42:55 PM · #9 |
just stay away from gimp, photoshop, lightroom, elements, picassa etc... i would suggest... use something like irfnview where you can do the basics in batch and in one go without actually having to worry about whether your contravening the rules, i dont think sharpening should need to be done in minimal anyway, and so what if a photo is a little less crisp than it might if you artificially sharpen it... its about the photo and being shot there and then and your photo skills not the post process skills or what you can and cant get away with etc...
learn to use the camera to its best possible level and i wish DPC would stop promoting photoshop etc as the only means to an end, that everything has to be 100% clean and focused etc.. we are not shooting for commercial purposes or coroporate clients or for money just loosen up on the post processing and get back to the photography for goodness sake its an art form not a perfectionist realm... |
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12/18/2012 11:45:29 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
how would you sharpen an entry without the use of a slider? |
You don't. The whole point is to use a sharpening step that ISN'T adjustable. If your software doesn't off such a basic tool, then use different software or don't sharpen. |
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12/18/2012 11:47:14 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
how would you sharpen an entry without the use of a slider? |
You don't. The whole point is to use a sharpening step that ISN'T adjustable. If your software doesn't off such a basic tool, then use different software or don't sharpen. |
+1 |
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12/18/2012 11:48:37 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Sirashley:
how would you sharpen an entry without the use of a slider? |
You don't. The whole point is to use a sharpening step that ISN'T adjustable. If your software doesn't off such a basic tool, then use different software or don't sharpen. |
hmmm... didn't know such a thing existed... See, I learn something new each day :) ... So in other words, there are programs out there that have a sharpen feature, but don't let you have any control over how much or how little they sharpen it? Any idea what program I could score for mac that's free that would do that? I don't see anything like that in GIMP. |
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12/19/2012 12:04:29 AM · #13 |
for example the later part of this you tube shows how you can batch even just one image to sharpen if you really need to... but batch things...
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_eEKD8AJz0
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12/19/2012 12:34:11 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Sirashley:
So in other words, there are programs out there that have a sharpen feature, but don't let you have any control over how much or how little they sharpen it? |
Photoshop is one. Filter > Sharpen or Ctrl+F. GIMP should offer a similar option, but if not... skip it. |
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12/19/2012 11:33:46 PM · #15 |
Okay, so I downloaded a trial of Adobe Elements 11 and used the "Auto-sharpen" feature, which has no sliders or adjustments of any kind. Is that legal? I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything...
While I'm at it, since I've never used Photoshop, I brought the photo in the from the memory card, ran the auto-sharpen, then the save for web option, I simply put in the 800 x whatever pixel number it was, and set it to jpg. I'm not missing any other adjustment there that could cause me trouble am I???
Message edited by author 2012-12-19 23:38:36. |
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12/19/2012 11:48:09 PM · #16 |
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12/20/2012 02:25:14 AM · #17 |
In GIMP, if you go "select" - "select all" (i.e your whole image) you get an option "sharpen". Its only 1 click. You can't adjust anything, you can't slide anything, you either click "sharpen" or you don't.
I think that complies with minimal editing rules.
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12/20/2012 03:50:22 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by kasaba:
In GIMP, if you go "select" - "select all" (i.e your whole image) you get an option "sharpen". Its only 1 click. You can't adjust anything, you can't slide anything, you either click "sharpen" or you don't.
I think that complies with minimal editing rules. |
If you're talking about the Select>>Sharpen option then that is "sharpening" the shape of the selection, not the contents of the selection: //docs.gimp.org/2.8/en/gimp-selection-sharpen.html
Kevin |
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12/20/2012 04:03:41 AM · #19 |
The nonsense of this rule is that I could very easily script a wrapper round the sharpen command, with a fixed value in the script, offer it to  Sirashley as a one-click, no adjustment, sharpen and he'd be fully within the rule. Of course that is with the proviso that I didn't tell him how it works and he didn't peek inside the script ;) and I couldn't use it ???
This "ignorance is bliss" state of affairs is true for many of the rules - we allow Topaz for basic without knowing how many, if any, layers it creates in the progress of doing it's thing. "Smart sharpen" is almost certainly doing selections to only sharpen parts of the image, but because we don't know it's allowed.
I think the no-adjustment sharpen rule should be re-worded to say that you must only use the default settings in the case where adjustments are available.
Kevin
and no, I didn't sharpen my entry :)
Message edited by author 2012-12-20 04:06:24. |
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12/20/2012 10:52:01 AM · #20 |
| Good boy,hope you put your name on it. |
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12/20/2012 11:25:44 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by paynekj:
The nonsense of this rule is that I could very easily script a wrapper round the sharpen command, with a fixed value in the script, offer it to Sirashley as a one-click, no adjustment, sharpen and he'd be fully within the rule. Of course that is with the proviso that I didn't tell him how it works and he didn't peek inside the script ;) and I couldn't use it ???
This "ignorance is bliss" state of affairs is true for many of the rules - we allow Topaz for basic without knowing how many, if any, layers it creates in the progress of doing it's thing. "Smart sharpen" is almost certainly doing selections to only sharpen parts of the image, but because we don't know it's allowed.
I think the no-adjustment sharpen rule should be re-worded to say that you must only use the default settings in the case where adjustments are available.
Kevin
and no, I didn't sharpen my entry :) |
Personally, I don't see why we allow ANY sharpening in minimal editing... Why is that the ONE exception to "get it right in-camera"? Why aren't we expected to get the image sharpening right in-camera as well? |
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12/20/2012 11:32:26 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Personally, I don't see why we allow ANY sharpening in minimal editing... Why is that the ONE exception to "get it right in-camera"? Why aren't we expected to get the image sharpening right in-camera as well? |
I believe it was due to many editing packages not offering a sharpen-when-resizing option, and since resize is required in order to make the image meet the resolution requirements, it was determined that it would be best to allow the simple one-step sharpen/equivalents.
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12/20/2012 12:11:25 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Manic:
I believe it was due to many editing packages not offering a sharpen-when-resizing option, and since resize is required in order to make the image meet the resolution requirements, it was determined that it would be best to allow the simple one-step sharpen/equivalents. |
^ What he said. Getting it right in camera still requires sharpening when you scale down from many megapixels to 800px. |
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