Faith, Beliefs, & Choices... - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

12/07/2012 08:46:17 AM · #1

I understand this may end up in Rant, but I'm hoping that maybe some questions can be posed and answered without getting too carried away.

I am genuinely curious as to how faith and beliefs within an organized structure are dealt with in real life scenarios. Jason,

DrAchoo, and Mike,

myqyl seem to be fairly open and knowledgeable as far as how to walk that line and I'm hoping they might not object to some hypothetical situations presented and, hopefully, provide some insight as to how you tread a fine line in this day and age with things being so different than when the Bible was written.

The way the tone has changed in the other Rant thread that's been so busy about the New Mexico photog who's embroiled in his case leads me to want to ask about this marriage scenario first. Mike took care of his position quite nicely by stating that he wouldn't do it 'cause he sucks as a photog. Clever, humorous, and a very nice way of avoiding a potentially uncomfortable scenario.

Jason, I know you have mentioned that you have gay friends, and I'm hoping they feel that you are their friends as well. Since they most likely know that you do NOT suck as a photog, how would you deal with a request to shoot the first pictures of a baby they had just adopted?

At what point does extending the hand of friendship become outweighed by respect and/or adherence to a stated issue in your/the church?

To throw a further wrench into the works, the one person of the couple once threw himself into the river and rescued your child when she slipped on the riverbank and fell into the river at the park two years ago, so you know this person is selfless and of sterling character.

I guess I am just curious as to how you deal with dilemmas that must come up on a regular basis.

With me, I only have to answer to my own code of values, and without fear of repercussions from any organization to whom I answer.

I'm hoping to keep the wildly ridiculous analogies to a minimum, like a skinhead wedding next door kind of thing. Looking for realistic dilemmas.

Message edited by author 2012-12-07 08:46:35.

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

12/07/2012 08:54:12 AM · #2

i try to live by the golden rule: do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. likewise, judge not, lest ye be judged. and walk a mile in a man's moccasins.

i go to church, love my church, enjoy my church community, but refuse to let doctrine get in the way of how i view others, let alone treat them.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

12/07/2012 09:12:21 AM · #3

I am not a religious person, and I have always felt that there is absolutely no harm done to me by someone being gay. It just doesn't affect me.

Or at least it didn't (past tense). A very close family member is gay and so the issue is very much in my face now. I am not totally comfortable with it, but that's just my own awkwardness about it being so close to me now. My relationship has not changed. The person is the same person they always were, and their S.O. seems to be a good fit. All straight relationships should be this good.

As far as photography goes, I may be asked to do portraits of them sometime, and they will certainly be a couple in family photos from here on. The worst thing to do would be to give this person grief and drive them away from me.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

12/07/2012 09:42:52 AM · #4

I am a Christian, and a Baptist at that (Southern Baptist even :P).

That said, I was asked a few months ago if I would be willing to do a wedding of two gay men. (it was a mutual friend asking me). I told her if they wanted/needed me to. I never heard back from them so don't know what they ultimately decided, but for me the issue is NOT that they are gay (none of my business, frankly), but that I hate, detest, abhor, and loathe shooting weddings 98% of the time. When people ask me to do their wedding, I usually try to steer them to someone else and encourage them to use me as a last resort.

myqyl

Nikon D3100

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G DX VR

12/07/2012 11:03:00 AM · #5

Hi Jeb,

I can answer un-theoretically actually ;-)

I am a Catholic living in Washington State. I voted for the Equal Marraige Rights and when it won I violated my company's email policy and congradulated all my gay colleuges. I was promptly invited to several weddings that may happen in the next few years (no one has popped the question yet) and my wife and I accepted and plan to have a great time at these weddings.

Some in my Church say I'm sinning when I do this, but you really need to understand that is NOT the policy of the Catholic Church. It is the opinion of some politically right leaning Catholics and Bishops. Unfortunately they are the loudest members of our Church and the only ones that get interviewed on CNN. What you see on TV is NOT the actual Church.

Jesus went to weddings and even helped out at a few. Why would I as His follower do different?

God bless and thanks for the question.

Edit : But I'll leave my camera at home... I really do suck

Message edited by author 2012-12-07 12:13:09.

tanguera

Nikon D750

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D IF-ED

12/07/2012 11:45:21 AM · #6

I have always felt that many people point to their religion to back up personal prejudices, since some of the basic tenets of all judeo-christian religions is "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others". There are no qualifiers or quantifiers about who or what that neighbor should be. Love is love. Like Karma, I would not shoot a gay wedding simply because I do not shoot ANY kind of wedding. That being said, as my brother is gay, if he were to marry his partner, I'm pretty certain I'd be delighted to be their photographer.

Apple iPhone 5

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/07/2012 01:02:06 PM · #7

Hello, I'm just posting here so I can say I posted in the thread when it was still in 'General' - So this'll be a nice non-controversial non-ranty post telling you all how much I love this thread, and DPC in general. Thank you.

Mike

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

12/07/2012 01:12:49 PM · #8

since nobody cares what anyone else believes, they just cant wait to tell you what they believe.

i'm going to save the energy typing it up :)

MinsoPhoto

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

12/07/2012 01:17:59 PM · #9

Easy enough for me to answer... now at least as I have grown and whatnot. I am a Christian, I follow my beliefs but don't expect someone who doesn't share my beliefs to follow those guidelines. So as long as something wasn't unethical I would have no problem shooting whatever. I have a gay brother, I have photographed gay friends, black, white, christian, agnostic, atheist, indifferent. The fact is me photographing (or providing any other service) to anyone doesn't change my beliefs and is really a non issue.

I draw the line with snakes though, I hate snakes and don't think I could be in the room with someone to take photos...

12/07/2012 01:18:00 PM · #10

I'm an existentialist

12/07/2012 01:27:14 PM · #11

Originally posted by tanguera:

This is what has always puzzled me about so many righteous folks. How can you use the tenets of a faith for anything more than guidelines?

If we're supposed to follow the teachings of a good and merciful god and love or neighbors, et.al, shouldn't it stand to reason that sometimes we will have to take ourselves out of any safety zone given to us by our codes of morality? We are not supposed to judge, but if we're called on by someone who might not normally be within our sphere of life, aren't we supposed to try to help this person in need?

People help addicts/alcoholics all the time, homeless people get help, but what about others who need help but are those whom normally you may not associate with because of some preset value structure that normally you favor?

I guess it comes down to being human and fallible......I hope that in whatever case may come along where I'm called upon to step outside of myself long enough to be courageous for someone else that it would be my heart that was judged rather than my head.

Sigma 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 EX Aspherical DG HSM for Nikon

12/07/2012 01:29:43 PM · #12

Originally posted by HCvE:

I'm an existentialist

I'm sorry.......you'll have to leave.

Just the mere possibility that you're not really here is not in keeping with the spirit of this thread.

bohemka

Nikon D700

12/07/2012 01:33:55 PM · #13

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I hope that in whatever case may come along where I'm called upon to step outside of myself long enough to be courageous for someone else that it would be my heart that was judged rather than my head.

And that your heart, after years and years of chicken wings and cheese burgers, would be pardoned.

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

12/07/2012 01:35:35 PM · #14

I saved a sheep this morning which was stuck with its head in a fence, forgot to ask if it was gay or not...

Cory

Canon EOS-1D Mark IV

12/07/2012 01:36:49 PM · #15

Originally posted by HCvE:

I saved a sheep this morning which was stuck with its head in a fence, forgot to ask if it was gay or not...

Might depend upon who stuck it's head in the fence. ;)

12/07/2012 01:38:10 PM · #16

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by HCvE:
I'm an existentialist

I'm sorry.......you'll have to leave.

Just the mere possibility that you're not really here is not in keeping with the spirit of this thread.

No no, I'm here! I just don't know why!

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

12/07/2012 01:38:56 PM · #17

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by HCvE:
I saved a sheep this morning which was stuck with its head in a fence, forgot to ask if it was gay or not...

Might depend upon who stuck it's head in the fence. ;)

Lol, you think it was a setup?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

12/07/2012 01:48:17 PM · #18

Originally posted by HCvE:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by HCvE:
I saved a sheep this morning which was stuck with its head in a fence, forgot to ask if it was gay or not...

Might depend upon who stuck it's head in the fence. ;)

Lol, you think it was a setup?

Shouldn't you have stopped to take pictures first? ;-)

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

12/07/2012 01:50:36 PM · #19

I am religious person. I know that one church that I was in, it was certainly a sin. It's an issue that's kind of skirted around in the church that I'm in currently.

My view is this:

oh wait -- first of all: The different churches that I've been in have had different views as to women's roles in the church and what is and what is not a sin. My pastor may be disappointed in seeing me saying this, but he would never condemn me, and I would feel completely comfortable talking to him about it and disagreeing with him about it.

Ok -- my view is this:

I am taught first and foremost that my God is a loving God. That is taught above everything else. He loves us.

I also believe that homosexuality is not a choice or a lifestyle, but it is part of you.

With those two beliefs, I cannot believe, whatever my church teaches, that my God would purposely make it so that some people are inherently interested in the same sex, and yet it's a sin to find love and happiness there.

It just doesn't work.

Luckily, my pastor might shake his head, he might try to explain, but when all is said and done, it is perfectly ok to question, to have different views, different beliefs, and this works for me.

(Lutheran, btw)

Message edited by author 2012-12-07 13:51:32.

jagar

Samsung Galaxy S9/S9+

Sony Sonnar FE 2.8 35mm ZA

12/07/2012 01:57:16 PM · #20

Originally posted by HCvE:

I saved a sheep this morning which was stuck with its head in a fence, forgot to ask if it was gay or not...

Were you wearing wellington boots?

Message edited by author 2012-12-07 13:57:37.

RyanW

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/07/2012 01:59:32 PM · #21

personally i feel that no religion has it right therefore i go by my own set of morals.
I think the 10 commandments are a good basis for how to be a good person (don't kill, don't worship others humans as being the be-all and end-all, be a good person, don't steal from your neighbor, etc).
I think that buddhism has a better interpretation for the energy connecting all life in the circle of life than heaven/hell in christianity (i die, my body decomposes and feeds nutrients into the soil, which feed other life, which feed even different life, etc - so a small bit of me lives on as life in other animals that will exist after i die).

That said - questions about sexuality are null and void in my view - you are who you are, through choice or genetic predisposition. You're a human being and have every right to life on your terms the same as anybody else; i will choose who i support based on my own merit and organized impositions can (pardon the intentionally ironic pun) go to hell if they try to tell me to think/do otherwise.

12/07/2012 02:05:01 PM · #22

Originally posted by RyanWareham:

I just can *NOT* leave this alone.......

If you just feed the earth and there is no hell.....where do you want them to go?

New Jersey?

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

12/07/2012 02:07:22 PM · #23

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by HCvE:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by HCvE:
I saved a sheep this morning which was stuck with its head in a fence, forgot to ask if it was gay or not...

Might depend upon who stuck it's head in the fence. ;)

Lol, you think it was a setup?

Shouldn't you have stopped to take pictures first? ;-)

Guess what?

RyanW

Nikon D7000

12/07/2012 02:28:48 PM · #24

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I just can *NOT* leave this alone.......

If you just feed the earth and there is no hell.....where do you want them to go?

New Jersey?

Yeah, the "go to hell" line was intentionally used as irony. Just saying for them to go somewhere far away and leave me alone :)

as for the feed the earth, i don't know what else may occur, there are too many weird and unexplained phenomona to say that there's no possibility of something more fo the self remaining after the body dies, but there's also no proof to support it. Hence the imposition of faith to the scene.

The biggest issue i have with organized religion is the organization. faith is belief, i believe what i believe, i don't need to be told what to believe. if your beliefs and mine line up - fantastic. if they don't, well, facts can certainly help, but unsubstatntiated pressure and repetition is only going to cause me to shut off my brain and block you out.