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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Private emails during challenge about comments.
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 04/29/2004 10:41:36 AM · #1
I am trying to give honest critiques as often as I can - both for pictures I like and don't like.

I have been recieving private emails from photographers complaining or refuting my comments. Usually this is after the challenge is over, but I got a couple on the last challenge while the voting was still going on. Are their rules about this?

The emails are not mean or malicious, although a couple have bordered on rude. What should I do? It is making me leery of commenting.
 04/29/2004 10:47:45 AM · #2
If they are abusive or out of line with the site's TOS, then report them. Otherwise I would either ignore them, or respond with a brief "I don't discuss the photos during the challenge" comment, and decide whether or not to reply after the voting is done and you can assess it more dispassionately.

For every person who replies defensively, I bet there are at least five who appreciate your comment, but don't want to reply during the challenge, and are insufficiently motivated to do so afterwards when they're busy with the next entry, or posting long, unnecessary comments in every forum thread they can find.

Message edited by author 2004-04-29 10:48:14.
 04/29/2004 10:55:16 AM · #3
I try do add as many comments as time alow me. I get at least 2 or 3 PM´s back every challenge, most often when voting is still going on, and I don´t think I´ve got 1 rude or offensive mail (jet). I try to make my comments constructive but if I don´t like something about images I try to be compleatly honest and say what I think.
I´ve never changed voting after a PM and to be honest I just like getting some feedback.
 04/29/2004 11:23:04 AM · #4
I try to reply to every comment, and do so during the challenge. If I wait until afterward, then I probably would not take the time.
In my reply, the first line is ALWAYS "Thanks for your comment". More often than not, the comments are constructive and I learn from them.
Rude comments are the exception and I just ignore them, maybe the commenter is just having a bad day.
 04/29/2004 12:00:10 PM · #5
IMO, this is exactly why it should not be possible to PM on a comment during the challenge. The only way to eliminate this is to make the comments anonymous until after the challenge.
This would have the additional benefit that you would not know who made the comment, and thus could not pre-judge the content based on the author. I believe this would help us to evaluate each comment on a "level playing field", which can only be a good thing.
 04/29/2004 12:05:41 PM · #6
Originally posted by kirbic:
IMO, this is exactly why it should not be possible to PM on a comment during the challenge. The only way to eliminate this is to make the comments anonymous until after the challenge.
This would have the additional benefit that you would not know who made the comment, and thus could not pre-judge the content based on the author. I believe this would help us to evaluate each comment on a "level playing field", which can only be a good thing.
text

Anonymity is fine, but the value of the comments and appreciation of the comments is the issue. Both comment and reply could be anonymous.
 04/29/2004 12:15:00 PM · #7
Originally posted by ElGordo:
Originally posted by kirbic:
IMO, this is exactly why it should not be possible to PM on a comment during the challenge. The only way to eliminate this is to make the comments anonymous until after the challenge.
This would have the additional benefit that you would not know who made the comment, and thus could not pre-judge the content based on the author. I believe this would help us to evaluate each comment on a "level playing field", which can only be a good thing.
text

Anonymity is fine, but the value of the comments and appreciation of the comments is the issue. Both comment and reply could be anonymous.


In theory, yes, but by enabling communication between photographer and commentor we allow voting anonymity to be compromised; it allows the commentor and photographer to inadvertently or intentionally reveal their identities through the communication.
While my position on this may seem overly conservative, it is based on the simple fact that in order to have truly anonymous voting, there can be no communication between the voters and the photographers during the voting. If an avenue of influence is open, it will be used. Do a forum search on this topic, you will see that there are some who have openly admitted to rebutting comments in the hope of a changed vote.
04/29/2004 12:20:21 PM · #8
I will occassionally respond to a comment, (not rudely) usually to answer a question. I do not think there is anything wrong with this. I dont expect my score to be changed, and sometimes I have asked questions that I wanted answers to, which may or may not effect the score I give.
This is not to say people should bully others into getting higher scores.
04/29/2004 12:22:36 PM · #9
part 2
I want to know if the person who says my shot sucks is a decent fotog or not, I am glad we know who the commenters are. If someone with a 3.9 average says my shot is awful, I take it with a grain of salt, if setz or beguin say it, i would listen to them a little more.
 04/29/2004 12:24:12 PM · #10
Any system can be abused and frequently those that wish to 'beat the system', or those that have a quick temper, will succumb to temptation.
Perhaps you are right, just withhold all comments until after the voting.
 04/29/2004 01:05:36 PM · #11
I have PM'd commenters once or twice when they have said doesn't meet the challenge to explain why I took the photo (I know dreadging for a point or 2). But normally I don't send PM's as it is revealing who took the photo, as IMHO it should remain anonomyous.
 04/29/2004 02:03:54 PM · #12
Originally posted by ellamay:
part 2
I want to know if the person who says my shot sucks is a decent fotog or not, I am glad we know who the commenters are. If someone with a 3.9 average says my shot is awful, I take it with a grain of salt, if setz or beguin say it, i would listen to them a little more.


Would knowing who made the comment be less usefull if we had to wait a few days until voting finishes?

As the site becomes more popular and the community grows, we should realize that relying on the honor system will become less effective. I think going back to comments being anonymous until after voting may be an idea whose time has arrived.
 04/29/2004 02:13:46 PM · #13
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
I am trying to give honest critiques as often as I can - both for pictures I like and don't like.

I have been recieving private emails from photographers complaining or refuting my comments. Usually this is after the challenge is over, but I got a couple on the last challenge while the voting was still going on. Are their rules about this?

The emails are not mean or malicious, although a couple have bordered on rude. What should I do? It is making me leery of commenting.


What should you do? Give 'em a 1 and change your comment to tell them you are voting a 1 because you don't appreciate during-challenge PM's.

(and this is one of many threads complaining about this. I believe the site people should start taking that to heart. I rarely leave comments anymore because of it.)

Message edited by author 2004-04-29 14:15:08.
 04/29/2004 02:55:18 PM · #14
Originally posted by EL-ROI:
What should you do? Give 'em a 1 and change your comment to tell them you are voting a 1 because you don't appreciate during-challenge PM's.


That seems a little like revenge voting, which I think is against the site's mission in general.

I don't know how it would be possible to try to get someone to boost their vote unless they told you in their comment what they rated your photo. Most people genuinely want constructive feedback on their work, or the opportunity to explain or answer questions someone has about it. Your solution seems very vindictive and harsh for a site that is supposed to be about helping others improve. If someone leaves a comment that is asking a question, I will answer it in the best way possible, but I don't say the title of the photo or offer any other obvious linking information. If they figure it out, so be it, if not, oh well, I just want the commenter to know they have been heard.
04/29/2004 03:25:48 PM · #15
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=77015
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=53316

This horse gets a regular beating. :P
 04/29/2004 03:58:36 PM · #16
There does seem to be an increased amount of whining regarding comments lately. It's usually rather funny, if annoying.
 04/29/2004 04:14:35 PM · #17
I do agree that there should be a way to make comments anonymous until voting is complete, however. It would make things more fair all the way around. I also think it would me more fair to have only full-fledged members make comments on photos. If anyone can register and make comments on others' work without contributing their $ to the site, and never enter any challenges themselves or post any photos to their portfolios, how do we know that they know what they are talking about? I am sure that thought "gets a regular beating" in threads as well, but I'll say it anyway as I haven't looked for it yet.
 04/29/2004 07:30:05 PM · #18
There is merit in Lauriel's comment there.

I remember a couple of months back when some joker registered and just made stupod comments, suck as "this sucks".

Constructive critism is one thing, but not that sort of thing, although it is easy to ignore.

I admit I seldom leave anything but positive comments simply to avoid abusive PM's back. I often find myself writing a comment and then deleting it as it's not worth it.

04/29/2004 07:52:51 PM · #19
I've said this before, but I believe it:

We all have delete buttons on our email. If a PM bothers you, hit the delete key, and accept the fact that this is a global site, where some people will be rude, and some will simply seem rude to you because of the way they communicate. You aren't really hurt in any way.

Taking other action (ie: making comments anonymous)seems to be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Most of the feedback that is useful is not the positive "I think your photo ROCKS!" comments that we are all comfortable leaving. Instead, the people who take the risk and say "This photo could have been better if you ____" are much more helpful.

When guaging that feedback, I like to know a little about the photographer's style/skill. Some of the best comments I get come not from the consistently high scorers (though I appreciate that as well) but from the others who are trying to perfect their techniques and thinking about the same issues I am facing.

So, if you have stopped commenting because somebody sent you a PM that you didn't like, you are punishing the rest of the community, not just the offender, and I'll ask you to reconsider (and use your delete button extensively if you must.)

Best,
Bill
 04/29/2004 08:37:46 PM · #20
Originally posted by laurielblack:
I do agree that there should be a way to make comments anonymous until voting is complete, however. It would make things more fair all the way around. I also think it would me more fair to have only full-fledged members make comments on photos. If anyone can register and make comments on others' work without contributing their $ to the site, and never enter any challenges themselves or post any photos to their portfolios, how do we know that they know what they are talking about? I am sure that thought "gets a regular beating" in threads as well, but I'll say it anyway as I haven't looked for it yet.

I agree that perhaps we should be able to see the comments, but not who submitted them until after the voting is ended.

But I am a bit insulted by the idea that I must pay in order to comment. I'm an "empty-fledged" member, but doesn't make my opinion invalid. You're painting an awful lot of users with an unappealing brush. The non-paying members are still part of this community.

I'm still getting the lay of the land and at the moment I find the open challenges to be enough for me. I wanted to get a sense of the community before I took the plunge.

I'm trying my best to be conscientious - I look at all entries, vote on all entries and comment on at least 20%. I check them on two monitors to be sure that I'm not missing something. I've joined the critique club to hone my skills and give others feedback (because there's another thread that mentioned that the club is overwhelmed and not finishing comments every week).

Yes, I'll admit that when someone leaves a comment I find a bit snarky, I will check out their profile to figure out where their sensibilities are. But I can wait until the challenge is over in order to do that.
 04/29/2004 08:50:32 PM · #21
Originally posted by beckettboots:
But I am a bit insulted by the idea that I must pay in order to comment. I'm an "empty-fledged" member, but doesn't make my opinion invalid. You're painting an awful lot of users with an unappealing brush. The non-paying members are still part of this community.


I wasn't trying to insult you or any other non-paying member. I simply think that it's hard to gauge where someone's comments are coming from if they have nothing on their profile to show otherwise. I did not say a non-paying member's opinion was invalid. The negative comments I have received (which aren't that many) have mostly been from non-paying members who do not participate in challenges nor do they have anything posted in their portfolios. I think you took it a little personal...not intending to be that way. You are the exception to what I have experienced.
 04/29/2004 09:10:05 PM · #22
I have received a handleful of PM's during the voting process, but two of particular interest. Both were from famous characters on this site and were worlds apart. One person thanked me for comments, was very careful not to reveal which picture was theirs, and thereby preserved anonimity. The other, insulted my lack of skill and equipment, while not refering by name to their submission was very sure to give me enough detail that I would be certain, and then instructed me to go back and reevaluate. Anonimity was clearly blown, not to mention the rather blatant attempt to affect the vote.

I am a fringe player here. I am one of those horrid people that looks to push boundaries, rather than play inside of the confines of the sandbox that the majority here are trying to sqeeze smaller and smaller. If the way that my second example is the way that we play the game, I should start sending PM's to every person who claims my work to be off topic (a huge percentage of my comments), and lobby for vote changing.

I support anonomys comments that are revealed at the end of voting.

Message edited by author 2004-04-29 21:11:48.
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