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04/29/2004 09:04:00 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
So, if anyone wanted to join the club, how would they do it?
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under the "community" menu at the top, there is a link for the critique club. you can email or pm konador, as i guess he's taken charge.
as a side note, it looks like i've been booted from the club. ah well. i'm enjoying my own commenting thing much more. and i've been spending more and more time critiquing and submitting to photosig anyway.
i guess i just prefer being able to choose which images i critique. if i'm more into it, i feel that i can give better commentary.
Message edited by author 2004-04-29 09:04:56.
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04/29/2004 09:16:29 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
I am an inactive member of the CC. I used to love to do critiques. I could only manage one a day at best. I would think about the image overnight and it would take an hour to write the critique. Why did I lose interest? 1. (silly reason) Several of my page long critiques were not marked helpful. 2, (almost as silly reason) unpleasant private message responses. 3. (somewhat silly reason) some pictures didn't weem to be serious attempts. 4. (maybe ok reason) some pictures had plenty of comments, more than I could add to. 5. time, dial up, family etc.
Maybe I'll be back someday. I appreciate that the membersip roster includes inactive members. There used to be a # of critiques per week requirement. Each critique is better than no critiques.
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I feel the same way. I used to make a great effort when I first joined the CC, but after spending the time commenting and then not being appreciated, I kind of lost interest.
I still try to comment on a couple a week, but it has been hard lately, with stuff going on in my personal life. Hopefully, I will be able to get back to commenting on more photos soon.
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04/29/2004 10:04:41 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
I am an inactive member of the CC. I used to love to do critiques. I could only manage one a day at best. I would think about the image overnight and it would take an hour to write the critique. Why did I lose interest? 1. (silly reason) Several of my page long critiques were not marked helpful. 2, (almost as silly reason) unpleasant private message responses. 3. (somewhat silly reason) some pictures didn't weem to be serious attempts. 4. (maybe ok reason) some pictures had plenty of comments, more than I could add to. 5. time, dial up, family etc.
Maybe I'll be back someday. I appreciate that the membersip roster includes inactive members. There used to be a # of critiques per week requirement. Each critique is better than no critiques.
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How does one pull up a list of comments by user, as you have linked to above?
thanks
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04/29/2004 10:09:08 AM · #29 |
| Click on the persons name. That opens their profile page. On the left, click on their comments either all or only the helpful ones. All the comments that person has made will come up. |
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04/29/2004 10:09:38 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
I am an inactive member of the CC. I used to love to do critiques. I could only manage one a day at best. I would think about the image overnight and it would take an hour to write the critique.
Why did I lose interest? 1. (silly reason) Several of my page long critiques were not marked helpful. |
I do understand your feelings but I also appreciate that a lot of people just don't use that facility. Many recipients emailed me to say thanks for taking the time and that was great. It's a shame more didn't though as it is common courtesy to thank someone who provides a service to you, even if they do so partly for their own enjoyment.
Originally posted by emorgan49:
2, (almost as silly reason) unpleasant private message responses. |
Report them. This should be stamped out. I have received a couple of hilarious ones but they were so funny that they were worth getting for the laughter value. If I ever receive anything offensive of hurtful or abusive I will not hesitate to forward it to SC.
Originally posted by emorgan49:
3. (somewhat silly reason) some pictures didn't weem to be serious attempts. |
I totally agree with you on this too. It's one of the reasons I wanted to be able to skip an assigned image if I didn't feel want to do it. It's not like there is any guarantee of receiving a critique and since it's voluntary it would be nice to be able to retain some control over what one has to do. I found it frustrating having to waste time commenting on entries about which I really had nothing to say.
Originally posted by emorgan49:
4. (maybe ok reason) some pictures had plenty of comments, more than I could add to. |
I agree again. Sometimes it felt I was adding a CC for the sake of it but the image had received so many good comments during voting that there was nothing additional to say. For this reason I do not believe the check box should be offered on submitting an image but available to be checked after results come out so that only those who actively still want a CC comment can request one.
Originally posted by emorgan49:
There used to be a # of critiques per week requirement. Each critique is better than no critiques. |
This is an argument I made several times. If a CC member provides a single (good) critique a month that's one more than was provided before and benefits that one recipient.
If it's deemed to be unfair that low-activity CC members are first in queue for a critique then coding could be changed (yes I appreciate this involves time and input on the part of Drew and Langdon) to enable that preference for each member on a sort of token basis - each critique submitted builds up a bank and whilst there is currency in that bank a CC member retains his/ her preferential position in the assignment of their own images for critique. Or something.
Anyway, interesting discussion...
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04/29/2004 10:32:01 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by emorgan49:
3. (somewhat silly reason) some pictures didn't weem to be serious attempts. |
I totally agree with you on this too. It's one of the reasons I wanted to be able to skip an assigned image if I didn't feel want to do it. It's not like there is any guarantee of receiving a critique and since it's voluntary it would be nice to be able to retain some control over what one has to do. I found it frustrating having to waste time commenting on entries about which I really had nothing to say.
Anyway, interesting discussion... |
Just like the "meeting the challenge" issue, I think this requires you to read the submitter's mind. Maybe they were deeply serious in their submission, but are a raw beginner, or had technical or time problems, or just their idea of what constitutes a "serious" entry is different from your's.
You can always say that you see the photo as a less-than-serious attempt, so long as you're willing to change your mind given further explanation ...
I agree that giving any reviews is better than none at all ... although there should be some way to distinguish between someone who reviews infrequently and someone who's dropped out. Personally, I've never gotten one which wasn't helpful in some way. |
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04/29/2004 10:52:35 AM · #32 |
FYI, since myself and Konador took over at the beginning of the year (I think it was then), we've not removed any current club members - it's better to have inactive users who critique occasionally than to not!
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04/29/2004 11:15:47 AM · #33 |
I've been an infrequent commenter. I try to put a lot of effort into my CC comments. As Ellen knows, those long critiques can take quite a long time to compose and review. Its important to me that I make an adequate review of the work rather than giving a "Liked it" or "Pretty".
Between needing to focus more on work and also starting a photography business as a side business my time for involvement has been limited to posting my own work for comment and making the occaisional comments during the workday.
I do still want to contribute to the community through in-depth critiques and comments but I'm barely finding time to spend with family right now.
Sometimes time commitments ebb and flow and perhaps the springtime is such a time for several people here in the western hemisphere.
Kev
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04/29/2004 11:19:43 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by emorgan49:
3. (somewhat silly reason) some pictures didn't weem to be serious attempts. |
I totally agree with you on this too. It's one of the reasons I wanted to be able to skip an assigned image if I didn't feel want to do it. It's not like there is any guarantee of receiving a critique and since it's voluntary it would be nice to be able to retain some control over what one has to do. I found it frustrating having to waste time commenting on entries about which I really had nothing to say.
Anyway, interesting discussion... |
Just like the "meeting the challenge" issue, I think this requires you to read the submitter's mind. Maybe they were deeply serious in their submission, but are a raw beginner, or had technical or time problems, or just their idea of what constitutes a "serious" entry is different from your's.
You can always say that you see the photo as a less-than-serious attempt, so long as you're willing to change your mind given further explanation ...
I agree that giving any reviews is better than none at all ... although there should be some way to distinguish between someone who reviews infrequently and someone who's dropped out. Personally, I've never gotten one which wasn't helpful in some way. |
I agree that it's always safer to assume the image was a serious attempt but sometimes one really is lost for words or plain and simple doesn't WISH to critique that image.
I personally would rejoin the CC if I were able to skip images that I did not wish to comment on but until that changes I'll stick to commenting outside the CC.
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04/29/2004 11:45:08 AM · #35 |
Not that I have time to participate in many challenges, but I stopped ticking that little box. After a challenege I often know what I did wrong, so I save my desires for someone else...
Maybe some more calculations could be added into the who can qualify for getting the CC reply. Maybe only 2 times a month and/or maybe those in the top 20% and bottom 10% don't qualify at all in THAT specific challenge. Those people always get tons of replies anyway!!! |
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04/29/2004 12:00:39 PM · #36 |
Not to speak for anyone else, I am a member of the club. I have a full time job as a manager of a pizza place that delivers to Michigan State University. This entails many night time hours. We also have a contract with East Lansing School District supplying pizzas for their school lunches. This means that I have to work 2-3 hours in the morning, go home, try to take a nap, then go back and work at night. I also have a wife and 11 year old son who demand that I give them my attention. I only have two nights off a week so I try and always spend them with my son. I have been trying to get him interested in photography also, but eleven year olds have MANY other interests that I have to keep up with. Thus you can see that I have a very full schedule.
If you look in my portfolio, you may notice that I like to SHOOT photos as well as look at them. This has to fit into my schedule as well. I sometimes (every day) get kind of tired. When this happens I don't really feel like doing critiques. I'd rather do them when I am awake and in a decent mood. This means that I have even less time to do GOOD CONSTRUCTIVE critiques! When I do them, I usually do 2-4 in one sitting because I do enjoy doing them!
This summer, when the schools are closed, I will have LOTS of time on my hands. I have intended since christmas to do more than my share of critiques at this time!
Remember, I VOLUNTEERED to do this. It ain't my JOB!
Yours,
TC |
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04/29/2004 12:07:37 PM · #37 |
Thanks to Manic for readding me. I just completed 5 and am going back for more after a lunch. :)
M |
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04/29/2004 01:11:44 PM · #38 |
I used to be really into the critiquing business. Honestly, I do enjoy it. I've been as busy as ever in my real life and unfortunately, taking pictures and DPC has been forced into taking a backseat. I'm hoping that someday soon I'll be able to get back into it. I just spent a ton of money on lights and backgrounds and stuff for portraits that I've been barely able to use. That's rather disheartening. Especially since I have a baby who I haven't taken any really good pictures of yet. I hope to soon get more involved, but it's gonna be tough going for the first few months with new babies and a new house and all... No one said it'd be easy though.
Bob
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04/29/2004 04:35:56 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
I agree that it's always safer to assume the image was a serious attempt but sometimes one really is lost for words or plain and simple doesn't WISH to critique that image.
I personally would rejoin the CC if I were able to skip images that I did not wish to comment on but until that changes I'll stick to commenting outside the CC. |
One of the structural problems with the CC as it exists (on-line individuals) is that you miss one of the most important parts of thorough review -- discussion/collaboration with your peers. When I was regularly reviewing medical charts, we met as a group and two people reviewed each chart, and we could discuss it if necessary. When someone submits a dissertation, it's reviewed by several professors.
Maybe when you get a photo you don't want to deal with, you could send another CC member a note saying "what do you make of this?!" and get some assistance in composing a suitable response.
I don't think the idea is to force any single person to review a photo they don't like, but to avoid having the entire CC passing on some photos and un-randomizing the process. I think as long as someone gives some kind of reasonable response, you have fulfilled your duties as a group. |
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04/29/2004 04:50:30 PM · #40 |
I'm a newbie that has entered just 3 challenges. on the first i ticked the 'critique me' box but very quickly I realised the comments I was getting would suffice so the box was unchecked. yes, it would be nice to ask for and receive a critique. I have read many critiques of other people works and can see that much more time is (normally) put into these than a challenge comment. I'll also agreee that many requests are probably made cos the button is there. How about charging a small fee for a critique? If I really wanted one I'd pay a couple of dollars and it would make people think before requesting one. Any money raised could either be spent on the site or given to charity? (or sent to me for my D70 fund)
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04/29/2004 05:02:47 PM · #41 |
I have been commenting less lately, I think sometimes I feel overwhelmed by the sheer number of shots waiting to be critiqued, other times I look at shots that have won a ribbon and wonder what could i say to improve this??
I prefer to comment on shots that really could use some input. just me tho. |
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04/29/2004 05:09:25 PM · #42 |
To me a critique and a comment are two different things. A comment consists of one or two lines expressing very briefly what is good/bad and what could be done to improve.
A critique on the other hand involves a much more detailed explanation of the good and bad points of the image and what could be done to improve.
When I comment I usually only point out one or two things.
When I critique I cover all aspects of the image in detail from composition to impact. I provide both positive and negative information as sell as a summary of how I feel about the photo.
All in all, I take about 30 seconds to a minute to comment and sometimes up to 30 minutes to critique.
I was a member of the critique club at one point but have since not had enough time to give my best effort. Since I've been inactive I have been removed from the club.
Just my two cents.
Message edited by author 2004-04-29 17:09:42.
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