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10/05/2012 01:09:20 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Wow... I don't remember one with flies before... |
Like yours better than the one I found...  |
Yours is really angry!!
I guess which one to use depends upon how far the thread degrades. :)
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10/05/2012 01:33:50 PM · #27 |
ooh, I hope the animal rights people don't see this.
I already weigh(t) my own votes as heavily as I can. |
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10/05/2012 01:38:12 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I can find no reason not to make votes public after the challenge is done ... |
You stated why yourself, to avoid forcing "*extreme* low voters to justify, or face wrath and scorn or the community" ...
This is not how voting is done, virtually anywhere. No one should have to "justify" or otherwise defend (or change) their vote. You are essentially suggesting that we allow coercing people into expressing your values, not their own. What's next, "Vote like this, or else ..."? |
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10/05/2012 02:39:45 PM · #29 |
| My point is, we get to vote. Everything else is irrelevant. |
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10/05/2012 02:46:33 PM · #30 |
If I enter a challenge and I vote, really that's only one vote and how much difference would that make in the final analysis? Not much. If people are here for the right reasons, which I assume they are, then this is a moot point.
i'm here to learn, and I learn from the challenges as well as from member feedback...or just taking a look at what others are doing. Methinks this is much ado about nothing. |
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10/05/2012 03:27:27 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by PuppyDogMom:
If I enter a challenge and I vote, really that's only one vote and how much difference would that make in the final analysis? Not much. If people are here for the right reasons, which I assume they are, then this is a moot point.
i'm here to learn, and I learn from the challenges as well as from member feedback...or just taking a look at what others are doing. Methinks this is much ado about nothing. |
To be fair - given the small number of votes in any challenge, your single vote can make a huge difference. In fact, with only 50 voters, your vote is worth exactly .2 on any image. Here's the formula
S is Score
C is current score
N is voter #
V is vote
S=C+((1/N)*V) |
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10/05/2012 03:46:34 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Cory:
To be fair - given the small number of votes in any challenge, your single vote can make a huge difference. In fact, with only 50 voters, your vote is worth exactly .2 on any image. Here's the formula
S is Score
C is current score
N is voter #
V is vote
S=C+((1/N)*V) |
Sort of. The "worth" of the vote is dependent on the current average compared to your vote. The absolute most at 50 votes you can sway an average is 0.2, and that's only if they had perfect 10s or 1s and your vote was the opposite. Chances are their average is somewhere in the middle, 5.5, and if you give a 1 or 10, then the most you can affect a score is 0.1, at 50 votes.
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10/05/2012 03:52:04 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by Cory:
To be fair - given the small number of votes in any challenge, your single vote can make a huge difference. In fact, with only 50 voters, your vote is worth exactly .2 on any image. Here's the formula
S is Score
C is current score
N is voter #
V is vote
S=C+((1/N)*V) |
Sort of. The "worth" of the vote is dependent on the current average compared to your vote. The absolute most at 50 votes you can sway an average is 0.2, and that's only if they had perfect 10s or 1s and your vote was the opposite. Chances are their average is somewhere in the middle, 5.5, and if you give a 1 or 10, then the most you can affect a score is 0.1, at 50 votes. |
You're quite right... Sorry was doing that in a hurry just to illustrate the idea that your vote is actually much more valuable than you might think, since 0.1 is often one place up or down in the standings.
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10/05/2012 04:07:04 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I can find no reason not to make votes public after the challenge is done ... |
You stated why yourself, to avoid forcing "*extreme* low voters to justify, or face wrath and scorn or the community" ...
This is not how voting is done, virtually anywhere. No one should have to "justify" or otherwise defend (or change) their vote. You are essentially suggesting that we allow coercing people into expressing your values, not their own. What's next, "Vote like this, or else ..."? |
It would only "coerce" low voters or high voters into public responsibility. Expressing the values of the group would be in their best interest if they want to maintain reputation. If the group doesn't mind as a whole, then no one else would mind.
Why post voting average of a member? whats the point in that? - or, why stop there? |
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10/05/2012 04:13:06 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
It would only "coerce" low voters or high voters into public responsibility. Expressing the values of the group would be in their best interest if they want to maintain reputation. If the group doesn't mind as a whole, then no one else would mind. |
See post #14 for the only two response I would give if I was forced to do so. |
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10/05/2012 04:30:04 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Why post voting average of a member? whats the point in that? - or, why stop there? |
Because it gives a statistically valid approximation of someone's overall voting style and patterns. It does not allow individuals to get into disputes over votes applied to specific entries.
Message edited by author 2012-10-05 16:30:28. |
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10/05/2012 04:51:32 PM · #37 |
edit: doubled.
Message edited by author 2012-10-05 16:53:22. |
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10/05/2012 04:56:19 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I have never been for forcing people to leave comments, but how about if you enter a challenge and vote in a challenge, your votes become public after rollover- That would essentially force "extreme" low voters to justify, or face wrath and scorn or the community,(much like Gollum being kicked out of his community for fratricide.) |
Conversely should the "extreme" high voters have to justify their votes also? Ohh, what's that you say, gold stars for everyone. Yay!
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I can find no reason not to make votes public after the challenge is done- except to, what- "protect the privacy of extreme low voters and those who slag all other entries but theirs" - My take is that from all these threads the people who vote the way they like will continue without regard for public opinions, feelings, etc. |
I wouldn't change the way I vote if my votes where made public. It would just lead to me either writing, "Don't need to justify shit to you" or "Suck it up you whinny bitch" ad infinitum. |
Its Ironic that you insult those who disagree with you over and over in this thread, but you are protected by the powers that be from "coercion by the offended masses." |
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10/05/2012 05:16:04 PM · #39 |
| Those "insults" might be completely valid but would still not be tolerated in comments (comments pretty much have to follow the Forum rules (they are individual threads) and the TOS) -- so why propose something which will virtually assure that the threads and comments are filled with ever-escalating levels of bipartisan vitriol? |
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10/05/2012 05:20:48 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
.... so why propose something which will virtually assure that the threads and comments are filled with ever-escalating levels of bipartisan vitriol? |
What else do we have to do? ;) |
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10/05/2012 05:26:03 PM · #41 |
| You already have all four possible entries submitted? |
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10/05/2012 05:55:26 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You already have all four possible entries submitted? |
Meh, that's not as much fun. ;) |
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10/05/2012 07:21:15 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Those "insults" might be completely valid but would still not be tolerated in comments (comments pretty much have to follow the Forum rules (they are individual threads) and the TOS) -- so why propose something which will virtually assure that the threads and comments are filled with ever-escalating levels of bipartisan vitriol? |
You are correct, leading by example is a better way. |
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10/05/2012 09:32:47 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I have never been for forcing people to leave comments, but how about if you enter a challenge and vote in a challenge, your votes become public after rollover- That would essentially force "extreme" low voters to justify, or face wrath and scorn or the community,(much like Gollum being kicked out of his community for fratricide.) |
Conversely should the "extreme" high voters have to justify their votes also? Ohh, what's that you say, gold stars for everyone. Yay!
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I can find no reason not to make votes public after the challenge is done- except to, what- "protect the privacy of extreme low voters and those who slag all other entries but theirs" - My take is that from all these threads the people who vote the way they like will continue without regard for public opinions, feelings, etc. |
I wouldn't change the way I vote if my votes where made public. It would just lead to me either writing, "Don't need to justify shit to you" or "Suck it up you whinny bitch" ad infinitum. |
Its Ironic that you insult those who disagree with you over and over in this thread, but you are protected by the powers that be from "coercion by the offended masses." |
I find it insulting that you even brought this up yet again. Sure GeneralE said my responses may not be tolerated, but look where you're coming from. It essentially boils down to my two comments, and it always will. I shouldn't have to defend my vote for anybody unless I was doing something scrupulous, and I'm not.
I do disagree with you because you want justification for my votes simply because of my average. That's insulting on so many levels. Unless you have some reason to believe I'm doing something against the site rules, ignore me. |
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10/05/2012 09:57:55 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Those "insults" might be completely valid but would still not be tolerated in comments (comments pretty much have to follow the Forum rules (they are individual threads) and the TOS) -- so why propose something which will virtually assure that the threads and comments are filled with ever-escalating levels of bipartisan vitriol? |
You are correct, leading by example is a better way. |
Unlike the most interesting man in the world, I'm only a fighter, never a lover. |
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10/05/2012 11:42:31 PM · #46 |
| as an aside on 'voter average', it has almost no bearing on anything.. if I vote high for the pics i think i will beat, and low on the ones I think will do better than mine, i can still show a decent average and be doing scrupulous things... |
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10/06/2012 12:04:28 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by apercep:
If I vote high for the pics i think i will beat, and low on the ones I think will do better than mine, i can still show a decent average and be doing scrupulous things... |
I doubt it. |
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10/06/2012 12:52:57 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by apercep:
If I vote high for the pics i think i will beat, and low on the ones I think will do better than mine, i can still show a decent average and be doing scrupulous things... |
I doubt it. |
Why?
(Theoretical situation):
Say I am in a challenge with 70 entries.. And I believe that under normal circumstances I think that my photo will place about 15th.. Now, if I add a point of vote on all the entries that fall into the bottom 80% of my votes, and detract a point on the top 20% of my votes, I will, in effect, show a jump of about 0.85 to my voting average..
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10/06/2012 02:00:33 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by apercep:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by apercep:
If I vote high for the pics i think i will beat, and low on the ones I think will do better than mine, i can still show a decent average and be doing scrupulous things... |
I doubt it. |
Why?
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Because I find your proposed system quite unscrupulous. |
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10/06/2012 10:25:24 AM · #50 |
The primary definition of "scrupulous" is "Painstaking, exact, meticulous"; for whatever that's worth :-)
Message edited by author 2012-10-06 13:51:11. |
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