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09/07/2012 04:39:19 PM · #376 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It's not that hard to go through the budget and make it balanced. It's not even that hard for two people with different ideologies to do it. The hard part is getting hundreds of people in two parties and two chambers to do it. |
Difficult but not impossible. It's been done before. What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery; and half of that half are Tea Party hysterics who don't know the first thing about how an economy works and aren't interested in learning. |
Party wonk blathering.
My kids are 12 and 9. They fight and bicker. When I'm giving them a talking to all Caden wants to do is tell me about Laine and all Laine wants to do is tell me about Caden. You sound like my kids. |
I know kids pretty well, and generally when you have 2 kids bickering, one has manipulated the situation to their favor, but because you are so damn tired of their bickering you either refuse to, or cannot, see the manipulation so both kids lose TV priveleges for the rest of the afternoon. |
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09/07/2012 04:43:37 PM · #377 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I know kids pretty well, and generally when you have 2 kids bickering, one has manipulated the situation to their favor, but because you are so damn tired of their bickering you either refuse to, or cannot, see the manipulation so both kids lose TV priveleges for the rest of the afternoon. |
Doesn't Caden know it! |
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09/07/2012 04:43:39 PM · #378 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery ... |
It's hardly fair to say Obama's policies have failed when he's largely been blocked from implementing them. Remember that the Senate Minority Leader stated for the record that the Republicans' "Number One Priority" was to ensure that Obama was a one-term President -- not to bring down the deficit, not to control health care costs, not to do what's best for the country, or even for their own constituents, just to undermine any effective rule of their opponent. Now, which side has been "playing politics" with the US economy ...?
The "job creators" who are sitting on a few year's worth of "tax cut" generated cash simply have to hold onto it for a few more months to make sure the unemployment rate (and the stock market) stays up ... |
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09/07/2012 04:45:19 PM · #379 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I know kids pretty well, and generally when you have 2 kids bickering, one has manipulated the situation to their favor, but because you are so damn tired of their bickering you either refuse to, or cannot, see the manipulation so both kids lose TV priveleges for the rest of the afternoon. |
Doesn't Caden know it! |
Ah, so Laine is the republican? ;) |
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09/07/2012 04:49:25 PM · #380 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I know kids pretty well, and generally when you have 2 kids bickering, one has manipulated the situation to their favor, but because you are so damn tired of their bickering you either refuse to, or cannot, see the manipulation so both kids lose TV priveleges for the rest of the afternoon. |
Doesn't Caden know it! |
Ah, so Laine is the republican? ;) |
Yes. But Caden is the responsible Democrat so he gets punished for not being able to work it out. |
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09/07/2012 04:51:03 PM · #381 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery ... |
It's hardly fair to say Obama's policies have failed when he's largely been blocked from implementing them. Remember that the Senate Minority Leader stated for the record that the Republicans' "Number One Priority" was to ensure that Obama was a one-term President -- not to bring down the deficit, not to control health care costs, not to do what's best for the country, or even for their own constituents, just to undermine any effective rule of their opponent. Now, which side has been "playing politics" with the US economy ...?
The "job creators" who are sitting on a few year's worth of "tax cut" generated cash simply have to hold onto it for a few more months to make sure the unemployment rate (and the stock market) stays up ... |
This narrative has a huge hole. What about the first two years when Obama had zero obstruction? |
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09/07/2012 04:53:43 PM · #382 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You sound like my kids. |
In all probability, when faced with a scenario that would have a very negative impact on both of them, your kids would agree on a compromise... not so for the politicians.
Ray |
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09/07/2012 04:55:38 PM · #383 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery; and half of that half are Tea Party hysterics who don't know the first thing about how an economy works and aren't interested in learning. |
While I agree that the Tea Party has been a force of opposition to the Democratic agenda, Reid has been the exact opposing force. It IS a two way street. Your chosen media just doesn't portray it that way.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
The "job creators" who are sitting on a few year's worth of "tax cut" generated cash simply have to hold onto it for a few more months to make sure the unemployment rate (and the stock market) stays up ... |
Meanwhile the Democrats push for more quantitative easing. Half of QE's duties is to put more money and less risk into bank's assets. From the way I understand QE, it's essentially the exact thing you're complaining against. |
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09/07/2012 05:03:02 PM · #384 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by posthumous:
It's not that hard to go through the budget and make it balanced. It's not even that hard for two people with different ideologies to do it. The hard part is getting hundreds of people in two parties and two chambers to do it. |
Difficult but not impossible. It's been done before. What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery; and half of that half are Tea Party hysterics who don't know the first thing about how an economy works and aren't interested in learning. |
Party wonk blathering.
My kids are 12 and 9. They fight and bicker. When I'm giving them a talking to all Caden wants to do is tell me about Laine and all Laine wants to do is tell me about Caden. You sound like my kids. |
And you sound like the same crank that you have always been. You're not even familiar with recent history. |
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09/07/2012 05:05:29 PM · #385 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery; and half of that half are Tea Party hysterics who don't know the first thing about how an economy works and aren't interested in learning. |
While I agree that the Tea Party has been a force of opposition to the Democratic agenda, Reid has been the exact opposing force. It IS a two way street. Your chosen media just doesn't portray it that way.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
The "job creators" who are sitting on a few year's worth of "tax cut" generated cash simply have to hold onto it for a few more months to make sure the unemployment rate (and the stock market) stays up ... |
Meanwhile the Democrats push for more quantitative easing. Half of QE's duties is to put more money and less risk into bank's assets. From the way I understand QE, it's essentially the exact thing you're complaining against. |
The Democrats are pushing for this? What are you talking about? Which Democrats? The Fed is independent, and Bernanke is a Republican.
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09/07/2012 05:05:51 PM · #386 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Meanwhile the Democrats push for more quantitative easing. Half of QE's duties is to put more money and less risk into bank's assets. From the way I understand QE, it's essentially the exact thing you're complaining against. |
They might not have to do that if (for example) Romney's money was in a local credit union contributing to the economy instead hiding in a Swiss vault ... |
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09/07/2012 05:06:11 PM · #387 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
The Democrats are pushing for this? What are you talking about? Which Democrats? The Fed is independent, and Bernanke is a Republican. |
Ya. I agree with Judith on this one. |
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09/07/2012 05:11:20 PM · #388 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
What makes it nearly impossible now is that half the participants have colluded to sabotage and bring down the president and have thereby sabotaged the economic recovery; and half of that half are Tea Party hysterics who don't know the first thing about how an economy works and aren't interested in learning. |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
While I agree that the Tea Party has been a force of opposition to the Democratic agenda, Reid has been the exact opposing force. It IS a two way street. Your chosen media just doesn't portray it that way. |
Of course the two parties are going to battle it out on major issues, but I think you must admit that it's quite a different dynamic when one side has decided to oppose ANY and EVERY policy coming from the other side, including policies that it would otherwise support under any other circumstances. |
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09/07/2012 05:17:09 PM · #389 |
| You and Paul still haven't explained how we manage to blame the first 50% of Obama's record on the Republicans... |
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09/07/2012 05:24:48 PM · #390 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You and Paul still haven't explained how we manage to blame the first 50% of Obama's record on the Republicans... |
Could be that, as the old adage says: "When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial priority was to drain the swamp"
Maybe it's a religious thing... The people saw a new messiah, believed he could produce miracles and are now dissillusioned that he is a mere mortal. :O)
Ray |
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09/07/2012 05:31:35 PM · #391 |
| Frankly I see the recession as an elephant and the two parties are flies on its back. They can stomp and push, obstruct and sabotage, but nothing those flies do will make one damn bit of difference in which way the elephant goes. |
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09/07/2012 05:36:04 PM · #392 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Frankly I see the recession as an elephant and the two parties are flies on its back. They can stomp and push, obstruct and sabotage, but nothing those flies do will make one damn bit of difference in which way the elephant goes. |
Perhaps not, but do remember that the rest of the world is watching and sadly, the images portrayed give a very distinct impression that the governing bodies really do not care on iota about the problems of the average American... it is all about winning.
SAD,
Ray |
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09/07/2012 07:15:09 PM · #393 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
This narrative has a huge hole. What about the first two years when Obama had zero obstruction? |
What about it? What is it specifically that you're criticizing? |
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09/07/2012 07:20:19 PM · #394 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
This narrative has a huge hole. What about the first two years when Obama had zero obstruction? |
What about it? What is it specifically that you're criticizing? |
I think he's referring to the fact that the current administration had a majority in the House and the Senate. |
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09/07/2012 07:23:51 PM · #395 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
You and Paul still haven't explained how we manage to blame the first 50% of Obama's record on the Republicans... |
I don't give credit, let alone blame, to the Republicans for the legislative accomplishments of the Obama Administration. Should I give the Republicans credit for lowering the unemployment rate from a high of 10.1 percent to its present 8.2 percent? Should I give the Republicans credit for passing Wall Street reform legislation? Should I give the Republicans credit for saving the auto industry, and 1 million jobs? The Republicans get credit for NOTHING that's happened since Obama took office that has been positive for the economy, NOTHING!! |
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09/07/2012 07:25:52 PM · #396 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
The Democrats are pushing for this? What are you talking about? Which Democrats? The Fed is independent, and Bernanke is a Republican. |
//www.nasdaq.com/article/fed-officials-see-more-easing-warranted-fairly-soon-20120822-00748
Originally posted by Nasdaq article:
Democrats have urged the central bank to take steps to bolster growth, pointing to high unemployment, but Republicans have urged caution, pointing to the risk of inflation and a weaker dollar. |
In a similar fasion to the Republicans posturing against the Dems in congress, the Dems are desperate and know that these poor jobs numbers can severely affect the race.
Message edited by author 2012-09-07 19:27:01. |
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09/07/2012 07:26:56 PM · #397 |
WOW, think I'll just continue to lurk here.
Message edited by author 2012-09-07 19:28:04. |
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09/07/2012 07:27:53 PM · #398 |
Originally posted by kawesttex:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
This narrative has a huge hole. What about the first two years when Obama had zero obstruction? |
What about it? What is it specifically that you're criticizing? |
I think he's referring to the fact that the current administration had a majority in the House and the Senate. |
Yes, and that's when the Obama Administration managed to accomplish everything in my previous post, when Democrats controlled the Congress. Since the Republicans took control of the House almost two years ago, the only cooperation from Republicans on any economic initiatives has been two pieces of a jobs bill that Obama tried to get passed, the extension of the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits.
Oh, and I forgot to mention health care reform which, despite right-wing propaganda, is going to HELP the economy, not hurt it. |
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09/07/2012 07:46:50 PM · #399 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by kawesttex:
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
This narrative has a huge hole. What about the first two years when Obama had zero obstruction? |
What about it? What is it specifically that you're criticizing? |
I think he's referring to the fact that the current administration had a majority in the House and the Senate. |
Yes, and that's when the Obama Administration managed to accomplish everything in my previous post, when Democrats controlled the Congress. Since the Republicans took control of the House almost two years ago, the only cooperation from Republicans on any economic initiatives has been two pieces of a jobs bill that Obama tried to get passed, the extension of the payroll tax cut and unemployment benefits.
Oh, and I forgot to mention health care reform which, despite right-wing propaganda, is going to HELP the economy, not hurt it. |
Here's the catch-22 of that argument.
The current criticism of Obama is that the economy is no better off than it was in the beginning of his term.
You reply the Republicans were obstructionists and if they would just get in line we would have been much better off.
I pointed out that the first two years (literally half of his presidency) had no obstruction.
You reply, well, look at all that he did in those two years.
Here's where the argument gets bad for democrats. If Obama did so much in the first two years, why did it have such a weak effect on the recession? If the answer is that it takes more time and more action (at which point the Republicans became obstructionists) the rebuttal is that it then seems like he didn't really do as much as one gives him credit (he made little headway in turning things around while racking up huge bills). In other words, he had the chance for two years to turn the jets to maximum with little standing in his way. Not only that, but his policies have had an additional two years to sink in and work yet he couldn't effect much change despite all his efforts. We have only had a tepid, tepid recovery. It seems quite ridiculous to suddenly blame the Republicans. They only got in the way, they didn't actually reverse anything that had been done. Nothing was revoked. Nothing was rescinded. Obama's actions from the first two years have had another two years to sink in and work. They have not.
I'm not saying the Republicans have any better ideas (and they might easily be worse), but to waltz into the conversation and say we'd be doing fine if the damn Republicans would have let us keep doing our thing just doesn't cut it in my book. The blinders are on in full effect at that point. |
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09/07/2012 07:47:36 PM · #400 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
...saving the auto industry |
Yeah... //www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/
Seems the government just pushed chapter 11 a little further down the road. |
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