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09/06/2012 11:54:58 AM · #101 |
Originally posted by markwiley:
Originally posted by Venser:
I don't see why we vilify a low average voter and glorify the opposite. |
Seriously? Because I think you can figure this one out if you give it some thought. I am pretty sure it's because we all want our entries to get high scores.
My impression (and I could have this all wrong) is that you give out a few very high scores and all the rest receive very low scores. I think reason you do this (and, again I could be wrong) is to maximize the impact of your vote on your high scoring images. I personally believe voters should give out the score they think each image deserves rather than try to game the system to maximize their favorites. If I think an image ranks in the high mid-pack I feel it deserves a score that reflects this rather than a smack down because it did not rank in my elite few. But that is my system.
I do believe you have every right to vote however you wish, but, please, don't feign surprise if people are unhappy with you because you adopt a system that consistently low-balls the vast majority of entries. |
I expect your impression may be correct Mark.
As far as voting any way we damn well please goes, fine. But those who are lowballing, do you want to see DPC stick around? There is another thread active where a new member just signed up and started a new thread to introduce himself, that's great!! We need many more new members, and how long do you think they are going to stick around if the first few images they post start getting super low votes simply because they are "conventional" or "eye candy" or whatever the lowballers hate? Would it really hurt you guys to take the negative effect on the community your irregular voting habits have and adjust them just a little? It really wouldn't kill you. |
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09/06/2012 12:02:35 PM · #102 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by markwiley:
Originally posted by Venser:
I don't see why we vilify a low average voter and glorify the opposite. |
Seriously? Because I think you can figure this one out if you give it some thought. I am pretty sure it's because we all want our entries to get high scores.
My impression (and I could have this all wrong) is that you give out a few very high scores and all the rest receive very low scores. I think reason you do this (and, again I could be wrong) is to maximize the impact of your vote on your high scoring images. I personally believe voters should give out the score they think each image deserves rather than try to game the system to maximize their favorites. If I think an image ranks in the high mid-pack I feel it deserves a score that reflects this rather than a smack down because it did not rank in my elite few. But that is my system.
I do believe you have every right to vote however you wish, but, please, don't feign surprise if people are unhappy with you because you adopt a system that consistently low-balls the vast majority of entries. |
I expect your impression may be correct Mark.
As far as voting any way we damn well please goes, fine. But those who are lowballing, do you want to see DPC stick around? There is another thread active where a new member just signed up and started a new thread to introduce himself, that's great!! We need many more new members, and how long do you think they are going to stick around if the first few images they post start getting super low votes simply because they are "conventional" or "eye candy" or whatever the lowballers hate? Would it really hurt you guys to take the negative effect on the community your irregular voting habits have and adjust them just a little? It really wouldn't kill you. |
I would rather someone stick around because they truly want to learn certain things about photography and have a desire to compete on any level, rather than being hand-held and coddled because people are too afraid or cowed to be honest about their own interpretations and understandings of the photography they perceive.
Voting low because of your own opinions about certain aspects of photography is NOT NEGATIVE. It is merely another aspect of the competition as a whole.
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09/06/2012 12:05:32 PM · #103 |
its much more detrimental to the community to ask people to adjust their votes to appease new users. why should we be asked to give up our honesty?
I'm sorry but i find it offensive that i would have to adjust my vote to make someone want to stick around, lets just give ribbons to everyone, we wouldn't want them to get their feelings hurt and leave.
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09/06/2012 12:11:42 PM · #104 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
its much more detrimental to the community to ask people to adjust their votes to appease new users. why should we be asked to give up our honesty?
I'm sorry but i find it offensive that i would have to adjust my vote to make someone want to stick around, lets just give ribbons to everyone, we wouldn't want them to get their feelings hurt and leave. |
I am not asking that people give a new user sixes to keep them around Mike (but a three or four would be better than a one). But when someone gives Tens to one particular look they like and ones to all the others, chances are a newbie is going to end up with one of those ones and blow this place off very quickly.
I am not asking that new members be coddled, learning is more important than winning and they should get critiques to help them learn. But how is a one vote with no comment going to help them learn?
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 12:12:08. |
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09/06/2012 12:14:48 PM · #105 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Originally posted by mike_311:
its much more detrimental to the community to ask people to adjust their votes to appease new users. why should we be asked to give up our honesty?
I'm sorry but i find it offensive that i would have to adjust my vote to make someone want to stick around, lets just give ribbons to everyone, we wouldn't want them to get their feelings hurt and leave. |
I am not asking that people give a new user sixes to keep them around Mike (but a three or four would be better than a one). But when someone gives Tens to one particular look they like and ones to all the others, chances are a newbie is going to end up with one of those ones and blow this place off very quickly.
I am not asking that new members be coddled, learning is more important than winning and they should get critiques to help them learn. But how is a one vote with no comment going to help them learn? |
Talk about hyperbole. The number of users in this place that vote on 10s on one style and 1s on everything else (or high and low, if not at that extreme) are not in the numbers that are going to cause people to even notice they are doing it.
This kind of thing is NOT going to affect anyone's score on a scale like this in any stretch of the imagination. |
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09/06/2012 12:17:04 PM · #106 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
We need many more new members, and how long do you think they are going to stick around if the first few images they post start getting super low votes simply because they are "conventional" or "eye candy" or whatever the lowballers hate? |
Not my problem. If we need new members maybe Langdon should do some better advertising, be a little more vocal out there. Putting the demise squarely the low-ballers is disingenuous.
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Would it really hurt you guys to take the negative effect on the community your irregular voting habits have and adjust them just a little? It really wouldn't kill you. |
You know what wouldn't kill you, and many others in your boat, is to stop asking certain members to vote inline with your beliefs. That is truly an insult because you're surmising your opinion is of greater value.
When I get a crappy vote, I don't berate imaginary trolls endlessly in the forums. I reflect and think where could I have missed the mark. Obviously many people haven't put their work up for sale, because it's quite humbling to hear a real person rip your work to shit not knowing you're the photographer on the plaquette. You swallow, listen, and learn.
If it truly bothers you that much, petition Langdon or SC to make it an official rule or policy that 6.435 needs to be the average we hit during voting else suffer repercussions.
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 12:20:45. |
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09/06/2012 12:21:01 PM · #107 |
Originally posted by littlemav:
I feel this person is entitled to understand what I did or didn't like about their shot. |
And that's your right, but entering a challenge does not entitle anyone to a comment......merely to be presented for voting.
Originally posted by littlemav:
I challenge everyone on this thread to try to leave a one liner on what you think that person could've done more to any image you vote below a 5 |
I never comment on what I think someone could/should have done with an image I vote upon. Who am I to tell someone how they should shoot/edit? I will be happy to give my impression as to what did/didn't work for me, but I also don't like to be made to feel that I have to justify my vote. I don't necessarily have the luxury of the time to spend a great deal of time commenting, so if that ever becomes a part of voting, I may not be able to vote.
Besides, some of us vote high or low simply because we do/don't like the way an image resonates with us. Do we have to pass that along? Doesn't the low vote convey that?
Personally, I don't need much explanation when I crank in a 4.xxxx score. Duh, it sucked.....
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09/06/2012 12:21:54 PM · #108 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
The number of users in this place that vote on 10s on one style and 1s on everything else (or high and low, if not at that extreme) are not in the numbers that are going to cause people to even notice they are doing it. |
If they even exist. |
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09/06/2012 12:30:50 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
I am not asking that people give a new user sixes to keep them around Mike (but a three or four would be better than a one). But when someone gives Tens to one particular look they like and ones to all the others, chances are a newbie is going to end up with one of those ones and blow this place off very quickly.
I am not asking that new members be coddled, learning is more important than winning and they should get critiques to help them learn. But how is a one vote with no comment going to help them learn? |
if a newbie blows this place off because of votes they received, either they dont have the backbone to handle criticism or their work sucks. either way i dont care if they stay or not, its not my job to encourage participation here, im not here to line Langdon's pockets.
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09/06/2012 12:34:55 PM · #110 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
if a newbie blows this place off because of votes they received, either they dont have the backbone to handle criticism or their work sucks. either way i dont care if they stay or not. |
Shoot em Mike. |
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09/06/2012 12:36:28 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by mike_311:
if a newbie blows this place off because of votes they received, either they dont have the backbone to handle criticism or their work sucks. either way i dont care if they stay or not. |
Shoot em Mike. |
Headbutt 'em John. |
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09/06/2012 12:37:22 PM · #112 |
Challenges Entered: 192
Votes Cast: 72,003
Avg Vote Cast: 5.5460
Votes Received: 43,796
Avg Vote Received: 5.6232 |
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09/06/2012 12:43:27 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
We need many more new members, and how long do you think they are going to stick around if the first few images they post start getting super low votes simply because they are "conventional" or "eye candy" or whatever the lowballers hate? |
Originally posted by Venser:
Not my problem. If we need new members maybe Langdon should do some better advertising, be a little more vocal out there. Putting the demise squarely the low-ballers is disingenuous. |
Perhaps, Brent, if you could explain how we can tell whom these folks are that need this kinder, gentler treatment during voting, then we can be nicer.
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Would it really hurt you guys to take the negative effect on the community your irregular voting habits have and adjust them just a little? It really wouldn't kill you. |
Originally posted by Venser:
You know what wouldn't kill you, and many others in your boat, is to stop asking certain members to vote inline with your beliefs. That is truly an insult because you're surmising your opinion is of greater value. |
Gotta agree that this is pretty much dead-on. What makes your voting style any better, or "more right" than his? If he's consistent, which he is, and votes most or all of the entries in a challenge, which he does, then how is his voting any issue at all?
Actually, since he's cast about twice the number of votes than you have, yet received only half that number, whereas you've received about 4-1 on yours, maybe he's a more willing and active participant than you are. Perhaps you could take some pointers from him on commitment to voting and consistency.
Originally posted by Venser:
When I get a crappy vote, I don't berate imaginary trolls endlessly in the forums. |
What a concept! Live and learn, and work at getting better.
What REALLY needs to happen is people telling the rest of us how to vote and comment because it doesn't suit THEM We get to vote, and comment, or not, as we see fit.
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09/06/2012 12:51:12 PM · #114 |
Well possibly I haven't expressed myself well in this thread and using ones and tens as extreme examples to make a point was dumb on my part.
At any rate, it seems most people in this thread are just looking for something to pounce on. I won't say anything more here. Life is negative enough for me right now having just lost 70% of my business and now having to make drastic lifestyle chances in quick order. |
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09/06/2012 01:02:15 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Well possibly I haven't expressed myself well in this thread and using ones and tens as extreme examples to make a point was dumb on my part.
At any rate, it seems most people in this thread are just looking for something to pounce on. I won't say anything more here. Life is negative enough for me right now having just lost 70% of my business and now having to make drastic lifestyle chances in quick order. |
I just lost my job of 5 years and am moving to a new city with an overdraft in my bank account and no job prospects in sight myself. This is a nice distraction :D |
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09/06/2012 01:05:24 PM · #116 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
At any rate, it seems most people in this thread are just looking for something to pounce on. |
That's not really the point, I would think. You have to look at things like what your comment conveyed..
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Would it really hurt you guys to take the negative effect on the community your irregular voting habits have and adjust them just a little? It really wouldn't kill you. |
Hey,  Venser votes consistently, thoroughly, and enthusiastically, yet you managed to make it sound like he's some kind of bad guy.
How is that reasonable?
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09/06/2012 01:05:29 PM · #117 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I just lost my job of 5 years and am moving to a new city with an overdraft in my bank account and no job prospects in sight myself. This is a nice distraction :D |
That puts things in perspective. Sorry to hear things are so sucky right now.
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 13:05:37.
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09/06/2012 01:13:01 PM · #118 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I just lost my job of 5 years and am moving to a new city with an overdraft in my bank account and no job prospects in sight myself. This is a nice distraction :D |
That puts things in perspective. Sorry to hear things are so sucky right now. |
I second that, I hope things start looking up for you real soon!!
I think this thread is making me 
Vote how you want, Explain or don't explain, thats your right.. We live in a Free World.... I think everyone has expressed their opinion very well and those of us who disagree with someone else should just shake hands and aggree to disagree... Peace/Love |
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09/06/2012 01:40:42 PM · #119 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I just lost my job of 5 years and am moving to a new city with an overdraft in my bank account and no job prospects in sight myself. This is a nice distraction :D |
That puts things in perspective. Sorry to hear things are so sucky right now. |
Well, let me qualify that. By 'lost' I mean that the job ended. I knew it was coming and it was always going to be this way, however, it's still very emotional, but it's actually a positive change. A chance to start anew. I only have myself to blame for the financial situation. I didn't prepare. C'est la vie. However, the move IS taking its toll. |
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09/06/2012 01:48:02 PM · #120 |
Originally posted by littlemav:
I second that, I hope things start looking up for you real soon!!
I think this thread is making me
Vote how you want, Explain or don't explain, thats your right.. We live in a Free World.... I think everyone has expressed their opinion very well and those of us who disagree with someone else should just shake hands and aggree to disagree... Peace/Love |
You forgot the sex and the rock and roll. |
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09/06/2012 02:09:26 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by littlemav:
I second that, I hope things start looking up for you real soon!!
I think this thread is making me
Vote how you want, Explain or don't explain, thats your right.. We live in a Free World.... I think everyone has expressed their opinion very well and those of us who disagree with someone else should just shake hands and aggree to disagree... Peace/Love |
You forgot the sex and the rock and roll. |
You forgot the drugs!!
No wonder this thread has taken a dive. It's all John's fault for forgetting the drugs...
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09/06/2012 02:16:02 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
You forgot the drugs!!
No wonder this thread has taken a dive. It's all John's fault for forgetting the drugs... |
thats becuase he's too busy headbutting things :) |
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09/06/2012 02:43:00 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by Brent_S:
Well possibly I haven't expressed myself well in this thread and using ones and tens as extreme examples to make a point was dumb on my part.
At any rate, it seems most people in this thread are just looking for something to pounce on. I won't say anything more here. Life is negative enough for me right now having just lost 70% of my business and now having to make drastic lifestyle chances in quick order. |
You did a good job of explaining Brent. You are up against it. Its all a trial by fire around here.
And I, as you can see from my scores, would have left a very long time ago if I cared about "low votes."
Would there be cause for action by the SC if an individual voted a "1" on every single photo? probably? illustrating the point that one's own reason to vote is not sacrosanct. Is it one's right to vote "1" on all entry's?I do not believe there should be guidelines to voting, just a method to remove the outliers.
It's not unreasonable to bring this stuff up without being hammered and "pounced on" in the forums.
"Artists," all the way from hobbyists to those exhibiting at MOMA can be helped by honest criticism, In the form of comments or lower votes, but the problem is that this is really not a sports competition and hence we don't need it to feel like an aggressive, testosterone filed, locker room mentality. That is detrimental to the site.
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09/06/2012 02:48:27 PM · #124 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
we don't need it to feel like an aggressive, testosterone filed, locker room mentality. That is detrimental to the site. |
And I was just about to start snapping towels at people. What a killjoy.
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09/06/2012 02:48:46 PM · #125 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by jagar:
Originally posted by littlemav:
Peace/Love |
You forgot the sex and the rock and roll. |
You forgot the drugs!! |
Geezer #1: I don't know what's wrong with the kids these days ΓΆ€” all they're interested in is sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll.
Geezer #2: Yes, what was so bad about the old days, when all we had was wine, women and song ...? |
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