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09/05/2012 11:22:32 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
In the heat ankle high should suffice I would think. :O) |
Oh, Ok. In that case, send the women back in. |
Why ruin it with women?
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09/05/2012 11:54:35 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by Venser:
Originally posted by Neat:
You have given an average score of 8.1034. |
You don't see a problem with your average? It's further from center than mine. |
A very valid point. I would argue that more people give out way too many 8s, 9s and 10s than 1s or 2s, but that goes against my belief that everyone should vote how they see fit. |
I was feeling generous, ok I will go and change them now!!
Message edited by author 2012-09-05 23:54:46. |
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09/05/2012 11:57:40 PM · #78 |
| I guess I need to apologize. I Started this thread as a way to have people come out and explain their voting strategy not squabble like school children. I personally appreciate people that have a strong leaning in a particular direction and are articulate when criticizing. More importantly the beauty of DPC is that we are allowed to vote without prejudice or censorship of the way we choose to utilize the point system. If one decides the whole lot sucks and gets 1s across the board or whatever, that is their business. All I would like to see is if you feel inclined to praise or hammer me just tell me why....Ok, so lets all kiss and make up after all this is a community of relatively like-minded and talented folks. Share; remember your sandbox rules. |
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09/05/2012 11:58:49 PM · #79 |
Let's try an exercise to explore how bad low voters really are. First I'll identify a few scenarios low voters might employ.
Then, for anyone who thinks those are "wrong" in some absolute, platonic-truth, let's invert them and see whether you'd still criticize them.
Low-scoring scenarios:
Maybe some folks like to pick their top 3 to give them the best shot at a ribbon and nail everyone else to the wall.
Maybe some like to dump most entries into a 2 or 3 and then use the rest of the scale to differentiate among their top picks (5, 10, 50, or whatever).
Maybe people think that if it's DNMC, they hit 1, and then only because they can't hit 0.
Maybe some really think most of what's "popular" is boring drivel, deserving of very low scores, and they only like what most would call "crap."
Maybe some people think that technical perfection yields zero emotional content and really want to reward people who take risks to make people feel.
Now for the mirror images:
Maybe some folks like to pick their bottom 3 just to be sure they don't ribbon and generally like everything else.
Maybe some like to dump most entries into an 8 or 9 and then use the rest of the scale to differentiate among the ones they really don't like.
Maybe people think that if it nails the challenge, they hit 10 for effort, and then only because they can't hit 11.
Maybe some really think most of what's "popular" is just fantastic stuff, regardless of how many times it's been shot before, so deserving of very high scores, and they only dislike what most would call "crap."
Maybe some people think that technical perfection yields really nice stuff to look at and really want to punish people who seem to deliberately ignore the challenge and "accepted" standards of photo quality.
So - anyone still complaining about low scorers?
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 00:00:22. |
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09/06/2012 12:15:40 AM · #80 |
Anyone that complains about "troll" voting is complaining about one of two things:
1 - People that vote against the grain of popular opinion. To these people, anyone voting against the popular vote (for instance, giving a ribbon winner a 5 or less), is ONLY doing so because of petty jealousy, 'strategic' voting, or some other ridiculous concept.
2 - People that vote your entry lower than YOU feel it should have been. Self explanatory. We all love our own images more than anyone else, even if we think that we have an ability to look at them objectively. It HURTS to have someone vote your photo low. It really does, but it's not because someone is being purposely destructive.
Let's face it. Trolls are mythical. Both in literature, and in voting.
They only exist in two places. Fantasy media, and forums ;) |
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09/06/2012 12:29:27 AM · #81 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Anyone that complains about "troll" voting is complaining about one of two things:
1 - People that vote against the grain of popular opinion. To these people, anyone voting against the popular vote (for instance, giving a ribbon winner a 5 or less), is ONLY doing so because of petty jealousy, 'strategic' voting, or some other ridiculous concept.
2 - People that vote your entry lower than YOU feel it should have been. Self explanatory. We all love our own images more than anyone else, even if we think that we have an ability to look at them objectively. It HURTS to have someone vote your photo low. It really does, but it's not because someone is being purposely destructive.
Let's face it. Trolls are mythical. Both in literature, and in voting.
They only exist in two places. Fantasy media, and forums ;) |
It's like some comedian said about other drivers: anyone who drives slower than you is a moron, anyone who drives faster is an idiot.
But, dear God, these endlessly recycling explain/justify your voting/average-score-given threads are mind-numbing, wearying things.
Quantifying a subjective thing is by definition imprecise and inconsistent. It always has been, always will be. If numbers and scores were the essential, absolute measures of the images we create, most of us wouldn't bother to create them--we'd find another medium.
We put our images in the challenges here largely to gauge the reaction to them. The scores are not absolute values against a golden touchstone standard, they are relative, in relationship to the other entries, to the challenge theme, to the mood of the voters as they vote, to the generalized demographics and tastes and preferences of the voting population.
No one would tolerate an endless series of "justify your entry" threads, but justifying your vote is almost de rigueur.....
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 00:31:47. |
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09/06/2012 12:41:24 AM · #82 |
| I hate when my brilliantly funny comments go unacknowleged,i'm leaving the site |
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09/06/2012 12:45:32 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
I don't know if I would call myself a "low-baller" but I do turn 43 this month and, well, you know, things start to sag as you get older.... |
I saw it old balls. How bout a pic for illustrative purposes... haha |
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09/06/2012 12:48:54 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
I hate when my brilliantly funny comments go unacknowleged,i'm leaving the site |
You can't do it this way. You have to start a thread in the rant forum threatening to leave so everyone can tell you how important you are to the DPC community and please stay. It has to go on for a minimum of 4 pages until everyone realizes you are now gone and haven't been in the thread after the initial post.
Lay low for about 6 months, then return as if nothing happened.
Repeat.
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 00:49:46.
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09/06/2012 12:52:09 AM · #85 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by smardaz:
I hate when my brilliantly funny comments go unacknowleged,i'm leaving the site |
You can't do it this way. You have to start a thread in the rant forum threatening to leave so everyone can tell you how important you are to the DPC community and please stay. It has to go on for a minimum of 4 pages until everyone realizes you are now gone and haven't been in the thread after the initial post.
Lay low for about 6 months, then return as if nothing happened.
Repeat. |
Exxxxaaaccccttlllyyy |
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09/06/2012 01:47:34 AM · #86 |
The one thing that makes me feel bad about so called low-ballers, is leaving a low score with out commenting. I've seen some images that even I voted low on that probaly belonged to a newbie, or even a new camera owner. I try to leave a honest critique on an image that I vote below a 5, I feel this person is entitled to understand what I did or didn't like about their shot. Not that everyone needs to vote the same, we all have different eyes as to what is beauty or moveing. It's real easy to leave a comment on an image you think is great, but I challenge everyone on this thread to try to leave a one liner on what you think that person could've done more to any image you vote below a 5
I just had a Example of that, one of my shots in judgeing started out at a 4 then went to a 3+ and stayed there two days. I was really wondering what was so bad about the thing. The 4th day it started shooting up like a rocket and ended up this eve at a 5.8. I have two comments both of which are positive, sooo I wonder what the lower voters saw ....
Don't jump on  Neat about her score's being "off center" Some of us just vote higher than others. I say Those Folks can eat crackers in my bed ANY day!!! LOL |
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09/06/2012 02:38:54 AM · #87 |
I think low balling is more relevant in open challenges for obvious reasons. I've been around here long enough now to know that if I have an image that will score a 6.8 in a member challenge, the same image would have a hard time pulling a 6.5 in an open challenge, that's just the way it is, where it gets on my nerves is when similar images in a challenge don't get the same punishment. Having an easily recognizable style and also posting in tumultuous forums, is a sure way of getting a lot of low votes, human nature is what it is. This is a small group, we make opinions of people we've never met, to think that those opinions don't effect the voting in anyway is naive at best. This is a great site and there is no other place like it but If I ever feel that it's becoming too much of popularity contest, then I may as well just go and post on flicker, where all it's about is how loud and false you shout, like talking to yourself.
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09/06/2012 03:22:16 AM · #88 |
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09/06/2012 03:27:51 AM · #89 |
Ok by a lot I mean several :)
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09/06/2012 03:29:21 AM · #90 |
Do you have the saying in the USA about flogging a dead horse.....
Let people vote how they please if venser aka comicassasin is a visery who thinks the vast majority of entries are poor then let him
I thought stranger in a strange land was an awful set of entries I think I managed 2x9, 3 x 8, 5 x 7 and that was being kind, the majority were sub 5
My average is given is something like 5.4 ish but that challenge just didn't connect and I like a wide spectrum of styles and subjects
You have rated 72 of 72 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 1 images (1%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 4.0278.
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 03:44:50. |
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09/06/2012 03:33:57 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by Giles_uk:
Let people vote how they please |
I've already +1'd this, but I'll do it again.
Originally posted by jagar:
Ok by a lot I mean several :) |
LOL - I wore out my copy/paste keys. |
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09/06/2012 03:57:07 AM · #92 |
Yes/No
You have rated 77 of 77 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 19 images (24%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.2987.
This is way below my average vote cast of 6.02. I left comments on the first 19 images to cross my screen. Then I stopped commenting because it was just taking too darn long and I need to go home to my family now :) I will try to comment more before the challenge rolls over. If anyone would like a comment specifically on your image, pm me. I've been a bit blunt with this lot of comments though, so if I've offended anyone, or if you want further explanation, pm me and I will happily comply :) |
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09/06/2012 07:30:51 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by pamb:
Yes/No
You have rated 77 of 77 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 19 images (24%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.2987.
This is way below my average vote cast of 6.02. I left comments on the first 19 images to cross my screen. Then I stopped commenting because it was just taking too darn long and I need to go home to my family now :) I will try to comment more before the challenge rolls over. If anyone would like a comment specifically on your image, pm me. I've been a bit blunt with this lot of comments though, so if I've offended anyone, or if you want further explanation, pm me and I will happily comply :) |
Not offended but would love to know if you were really unsettled by the tilt, or whether it was hyperbole hehe |
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09/06/2012 09:35:56 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by littlemav:
It's real easy to leave a comment on an image you think is great, but I challenge everyone on this thread to try to leave a one liner on what you think that person could've done more to any image you vote below a 5 |
Re-post from above:
A lot of my low votes have nothing to do with the technicality of the photo. Sometimes it's as simple as simply being overdone, or unoriginal, or uninspiring. It could be technically flawless, I really don't care.
I'm sure people really want to hear those reasons. In those cases, I'd rather not leave any comment. Doing so would only serve to try and sway the photographer from doing what they want to what I want to see. When I look at a photo here, I assume every edit is deliberate, that they have the skill to do as they wish, and that the final product is the one they're happy with. If they really want honest feedback to improve they'll ask after the challenge.
Originally posted by littlemav:
Don't jump on Neat about her score's being "off center" Some of us just vote higher than others. I say Those Folks can eat crackers in my bed ANY day!!! LOL |
The converse should also hold true. Don't jump on the users who vote lower than others. I don't see why we vilify a low average voter and glorify the opposite. |
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09/06/2012 09:40:06 AM · #95 |
Originally posted by Tiny:
This is really really interesting. |
Told you. |
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09/06/2012 09:51:16 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by Venser:
The converse should also hold true. Don't jump on the users who vote lower than others. I don't see why we vilify a low average voter and glorify the opposite. |
easy, high votes dont conflict with ones won perception of their work. People dont care why someone likes their work, only that they like it, the opposite is true for negative votes.
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09/06/2012 10:56:06 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by Venser:
I don't see why we vilify a low average voter and glorify the opposite. |
Seriously? Because I think you can figure this one out if you give it some thought. I am pretty sure it's because we all want our entries to get high scores.
My impression (and I could have this all wrong) is that you give out a few very high scores and all the rest receive very low scores. I think reason you do this (and, again I could be wrong) is to maximize the impact of your vote on your high scoring images. I personally believe voters should give out the score they think each image deserves rather than try to game the system to maximize their favorites. If I think an image ranks in the high mid-pack I feel it deserves a score that reflects this rather than a smack down because it did not rank in my elite few. But that is my system.
I do believe you have every right to vote however you wish, but, please, don't feign surprise if people are unhappy with you because you adopt a system that consistently low-balls the vast majority of entries.
Message edited by author 2012-09-06 11:09:27. |
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09/06/2012 11:13:15 AM · #98 |
We could argue all day about "freedom to vote the way you want" or "stop bitching and take the criticism for what its worth..."etc.
But really it comes down to negativity. Its rude and antisocial behavior in the forums that seems to have taken hold lately.
One could also argue that voting with a huge deviation from the norm, like a super low average,
or an out of the "ordinary voting pattern" towards the "negative" is a bad thing.
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09/06/2012 11:20:25 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:
Originally posted by smardaz:
I hate when my brilliantly funny comments go unacknowleged,i'm leaving the site |
You can't do it this way. You have to start a thread in the rant forum threatening to leave so everyone can tell you how important you are to the DPC community and please stay. It has to go on for a minimum of 4 pages until everyone realizes you are now gone and haven't been in the thread after the initial post.
Lay low for about 6 months, then return as if nothing happened.
Repeat. |
Change user name. |
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09/06/2012 11:41:04 AM · #100 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Change user name. |
I forgot that very important step, thanks.
Perhaps a good name for this might be "Blather, Rinse, Repeat".
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