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08/31/2012 10:21:22 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
I think you are completely misunderstanding the way these laws are being written. You could not take a picture for free and give it to someone for ID. It must be state issued ID. In NJ you need to meet a point system number of ID's to obtain a state issued photo ID. There are lists of A through C items worth different points that you can use, and you must have at least one thing from each list. I'll give you some real world reasons why this is a bad thing. My grandmother, when she was alive, in her final years began running into all kinds of problems over ID. She was legally blind, had never in her life had a photo ID, never drove a car, etc. She also did not have a birth certificate. She did not use one to obtain social security, she used baptismal papers, because no birth certificate ever existed due to her being born at home. In her final years, whenever she used her medicare insurance at a doctors office that she hadn't been to before, they would ask for photo ID. Some turned her down for treatment when she couldn't produce it. She ran into a problems with using her credit cards as well with not having photo ID. Based on the state rules that we live in, she had no way possible to obtain a state issued photo ID. Then there was the expense of it even if she could come up with the requirements. I don't know how things are done in your state, but in NJ, they compare my signature to my previous voting signature every time I vote. When I moved to a different town, my records were transferred. I have a drivers licence so a law like this wouldn't affect me. But, it most certainly would have affected my grandmother. And, yes, she voted every presidential election. I'm sure there are tons of seniors in the same place that she was. |
Very possible.
You make a couple good points in my view regarding a problem with state ID cards and the pscific case of your grandmother. My answer was to replace the required state ID card with an optional free photo provided on the voter registration card. This could be used eslewhere as well thus solving a few other problems for your grandmother. You further adressed my signature proposal by indicating that in your case there is a signature comparison by comparing your last voter signature with your current signature. This seems to me to be a sensible solution for the country at large. It confirms you are who you claim. If that is the concern, then the problem should be solved.
I truly do not know how many seniors are in that position. I agree that they should have the right to vote - and encouraged to do so. I would hope that any that would meet similar conditions of ytour grandmother could be served by either a signature comparison Like you currently use) or a free photo affixed to their voter registration. |
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08/31/2012 10:35:05 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
I seem to recall that  BrennanOB did mention in a previous post that in order to obtain the ID stipulated in this instance that it could not be done in time for the next election.
If indeed such is the case, and considering that the numbers bandied about suggest that voting violations are but an infinitesimal number as to not really have an impact on the results, why not simply have this requirement in place for the next election.
Would that not be a proper solution for both parties.
Ray |
Yes. It was also posted elsewhere by another I believe. That time constraint argument is what bothers me as clearly elections are not a secret nor when they are coming. Thus the only reason for a time constraint to be an issue is during a massive last minute effort to register those who have chosen not to. The time for education in my view is the time between elections not patrolling the streets at the last minute to register persons who will likely vote for whomever you say as you've fed them (bought their vote).
I think I suggested above that preparing for the next election in 2 years is a reasonable compromise and further suggested that DPC volunteers be used to help in the effort. Post 171"We could even start with voltuneer photographers here at DPC around the country to help take ID photos for the next election in 2 years. FREE. "
To me, stopping the BS on the right and left is the goal and if a reasonable voter ID system -whether free photos on voter registration card or a signature comparison like the one used by Kelli - stops the intent to disenfranchise AND the last minute roundup, then I support it.
Message edited by author 2012-08-31 22:42:01. |
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08/31/2012 10:52:03 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Choosing which sort of existing IDs would qualify and which would not is fraught with challenges. |
Agreed - but doable. |
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08/31/2012 11:12:39 PM · #179 |
Political ploy is putting it nicely. More like armed robbery to me. |
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08/31/2012 11:49:05 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Political ploy is putting it nicely. More like armed robbery to me. |
Then you'll be delighted to know that one of the reasons a federal judge upheld Pennsylvania's photo ID law is that absentee ballots would be available online (like Arizona) for people who may have difficulty getting to the polls... a program the governor promptly scuttled that same day. A recent university study showed that a third of Pennsylvanians were unaware of the new requirements, and the contract to inform voters was given to the former state Republican Party executive director, a man who raised $30,000 for Romney. This isn't over by a long shot. |
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08/31/2012 11:59:56 PM · #181 |
| Meanwhile the election could be decided next Friday... |
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09/08/2012 11:20:11 PM · #182 |
yeah its pretty definite that people here don't like Obama
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09/13/2012 09:47:55 PM · #183 |
OK I just can not imagine that the polls are right. I just saw an MSN article (they have been biased since day 1)
Fla, Ohio, Va Here is the comment that I tried to leave and it said that I was too new of a user...I have been a member of news-vine for 2 years. So here is my post.
I can't believe it. People have more sense in this country than to re-elect someone that has no foreign policy, no domestic policy, no financial policy (except for spending us to death), I could go on but come on people...........really
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09/14/2012 01:23:54 AM · #184 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I can't believe it. People have more sense in this country than to re-elect someone that has no foreign policy, no domestic policy, no financial policy (except for spending us to death), I could go on but come on people...........really |
âThose who hear not the music think the dancers madâ Rumi
"Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear?" Mark 8:18
That you choose not see it, does not mean it is not there.
You are attacking a fuzzy centrist as if he were the Devil himself. If the left had a voice in the popular press you would know they don't much like him either. His policies wanders the middle path, so it is more poorly lit. |
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09/14/2012 10:22:57 AM · #185 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
You are attacking a fuzzy centrist as if he were the Devil himself. If the left had a voice in the popular press you would know they don't much like him either. His policies wanders the middle path, so it is more poorly lit. |
Are you trying to say Obama is middle of the road??? Neither left or right. He is so far left it hurt...Look at all the things he has socialized...i.e. healthcare. Also are you trying to say that the left is not in the media. That is a joke. Have you ever watched CNN.
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09/14/2012 01:39:12 PM · #186 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Are you trying to say Obama is middle of the road??? Neither left or right. He is so far left it hurt...Look at all the things he has socialized...i.e. healthcare. Also are you trying to say that the left is not in the media. That is a joke. Have you ever watched CNN. |
If that's what "socialization" is, the country was "socialized" LONG before Obama came along. Socialized schools, socialized police, socialized fire departments, socialized water departments, socialized highway networks, socialized-practically-everything. That's what human beings DO; they socialize. They band together and make decisions, ostensibly for the common good, though lately blind greed seems to be trumping the common good. |
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09/14/2012 02:44:18 PM · #187 |
| The fact that you think CNN is the voice of the far left proves my point, you have no idea what the left is because you have never heard it's voice. |
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09/14/2012 02:46:09 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The fact that you think CNN is the voice of the far left proves my point, you have no idea what the left is because you have never heard it's voice. |
+1 |
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09/14/2012 03:42:45 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Are you trying to say Obama is middle of the road??? Neither left or right. He is so far left it hurt...Look at all the things he has socialized...i.e. healthcare. Also are you trying to say that the left is not in the media. That is a joke. Have you ever watched CNN. |
If that's what "socialization" is, the country was "socialized" LONG before Obama came along. Socialized schools, socialized police, socialized fire departments, socialized water departments, socialized highway networks, socialized-practically-everything. That's what human beings DO; they socialize. They band together and make decisions, ostensibly for the common good, though lately blind greed seems to be trumping the common good. |
Yes, for the most part schools are socialized, as with the other things you mentioned. Most people do believe in socializing certain parts of the economy, that's no real question. The question is where the power is held, and where you draw the line. If you draw no line, eventually you have communism - well, according to Marx. |
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09/14/2012 04:28:19 PM · #190 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
Are you trying to say Obama is middle of the road??? Neither left or right. He is so far left it hurt...Look at all the things he has socialized...i.e. healthcare. Also are you trying to say that the left is not in the media. That is a joke. Have you ever watched CNN. |
If that's what "socialization" is, the country was "socialized" LONG before Obama came along. Socialized schools, socialized police, socialized fire departments, socialized water departments, socialized highway networks, socialized-practically-everything. That's what human beings DO; they socialize. They band together and make decisions, ostensibly for the common good, though lately blind greed seems to be trumping the common good. |
Yes, for the most part schools are socialized, as with the other things you mentioned. Most people do believe in socializing certain parts of the economy, that's no real question. The question is where the power is held, and where you draw the line. If you draw no line, eventually you have communism - well, according to Marx. |
There is nothing wrong with Communism at a base level either. It is actually a better system than capitalism if kept out of the hands of the power-hungry. This is, of course, where the problem lies with all systems. Power corrupts the top every time. |
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09/14/2012 05:31:18 PM · #191 |
| I agree with your second bit, corruption is the enemy of the governed, no matter what form you're under. The question remains how easily corruption can affect your system. Communism tends to invite corruption. Humans can be greedy and lazy - which is why communism doesn't work. Communism is potentially viable only if you remove that little inconvenience. Governments are not capitalist and are inherently somewhat socialistic no matter what you do. Our founding fathers knew this and tried their best to create a system where corruption was checked as much as possible - but it still rears its ugly head. While power corrupts the top, laziness corrupts the bottom. |
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09/14/2012 06:22:47 PM · #192 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The fact that you think CNN is the voice of the far left proves my point, you have no idea what the left is because you have never heard it's voice. |
I had someone on Facebook yesterday scoff at Snopes as a source of factual info and refer to Factcheck, Politifact, StraightDope, AP, Reuters, NY Times, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, LA Times, Washington Post, BBC, and NPR (ALL OF THEM) as "liberal rags." Meanwhile, each of her sources were bordered by ads for Romney and various conservative causes. Even after years of seeing similar attitudes and denial in the forums here, I found this shocking. |
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09/14/2012 06:54:08 PM · #193 |
I sorta enjoyed seeing Sununu blast Soledad O'brien on CNN. She probably deserved it. We do have to understand that all agencies or reports have bias and we also need to understand that studies do show a left lean to the media. But this is far short of everybody being a "liberal rag" or some far left conspiracy.
Carry on. |
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09/14/2012 06:59:08 PM · #194 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
The fact that you think CNN is the voice of the far left proves my point, you have no idea what the left is because you have never heard it's voice. |
I had someone on Facebook yesterday scoff at Snopes as a source of factual info and refer to Factcheck, Politifact, StraightDope, AP, Reuters, NY Times, CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, LA Times, Washington Post, BBC, and NPR (ALL OF THEM) as "liberal rags." Meanwhile, each of her sources were bordered by ads for Romney and various conservative causes. Even after years of seeing similar attitudes and denial in the forums here, I found this shocking. |
Someone posted a fabulous opinion piece on reddit about the "liberal media" insult that gets thrown about a lot these days. I thought I might post it here because I think there is a lot of insight here:
//www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xod9d/mitt_romney_was_caught_lying_about_filing_his_tax/c5ogemh |
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09/14/2012 07:36:48 PM · #195 |
Wiki is a reasonable start to view the studies that have been done. Media Bias in the United States. It makes natural sense there is a liberal bias because most media agencies are centered in large urban areas. The majority of their employees come from these areas and these areas have a higher number of liberal voters (as compared to rural areas). The studies quoted seem to back this up and you can't really expect someone to remove all sources of possible bias from their own views in how they present a story. This doesn't mean for a minute that the story is wrong, or non-factual or propaganda. Sometimes I think liberals feel they can't admit the left bias because to do so is to somehow give up any claim that the stories reported are true.
I love NPR, but they clearly have a left-leaning stance. I doesn't mean I don't listen or discount what they say, but one should be aware of it when evaluating what they hear. |
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09/14/2012 07:40:43 PM · #196 |
| what is a "left lean" or a "liberal bias"? I think these terms are quite undefined and everyone seems to impart their own definition of what that means. The only study I could find on the topic of the "left lean" was something done in 2005 [and I haven't read the study itself yet, just a quick summary to determined whether it was on topic for what I was searching for]. |
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09/14/2012 07:43:04 PM · #197 |
When I was a kid in San Francisco The Daily Worker was sold in news stands next to the Wall Street Journal. That was leftist media. Sure there is the Nation, Mother Jones, the Activist and a few other lefty magazines, but almost no electronic media. The fact that virtually all media in the US is operated for profit and is owned by a handful of mega-corporations, tends to make a revolutionary socialist message unlikely to get through. Expecting leftist thought from a corporate media is like expecting a good steak at a vegan restaurant.
It amazes me how few Americans know the difference between Socialism, Communism, Social progressivism, let alone Fabianism, Christian socialism and the like. Of course the reason few know of them is they are as prominent on the political landscape as the Whigs and the Know Nothings.
We still have one Socialist in the US senate, Bernie Sanders of Vermont, but we sure don't see that voice in the media. |
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09/14/2012 07:53:49 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by frisca:
what is a "left lean" or a "liberal bias"? I think these terms are quite undefined and everyone seems to impart their own definition of what that means. The only study I could find on the topic of the "left lean" was something done in 2005 [and I haven't read the study itself yet, just a quick summary to determined whether it was on topic for what I was searching for]. |
It all depends on your scale and point of view used. Politically, I believe the united states is generally considered a center-left country, with Republicans actually still somewhat left of the universal "center".
Message edited by author 2012-09-14 19:55:15. |
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09/14/2012 08:04:10 PM · #199 |
Originally posted by frisca:
what is a "left lean" or a "liberal bias"? I think these terms are quite undefined and everyone seems to impart their own definition of what that means. The only study I could find on the topic of the "left lean" was something done in 2005 [and I haven't read the study itself yet, just a quick summary to determined whether it was on topic for what I was searching for]. |
I generally think of it as the framing of a story and not necessarily the facts or opinions within. Take the Macondo oil spill. One could report on all sorts of aspects. Without looking back, I would suspect NPR would have more coverage of the environmental impact of the spill or malfeasance done by the corporations versus aspects like the boon for local businesses helping in the cleanup or the economic harm done by shutting oil production down in the gulf or the quest for energy indepennce that drilling in the gulf brings. Each and every story could be presented fairly and excellently, but the lean comes from the selection of WHICH stories are presented fairly and excellently.
Message edited by author 2012-09-14 20:05:12. |
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09/14/2012 08:24:57 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by JamesDowning:
Politically, I believe the united states is generally considered a center-left country, with Republicans actually still somewhat left of the universal "center". |
If you are comparing the USA to all the world's governments, maybe. Most of Africa and central Asia tends towards the ruthless totalitarian tribal kleptocracy, so we balance out to the left of them.
If you compare the USA to first world countries, we are pretty far to the right, in fact we are the only first world nation without universal healthcare, with a high poverty rate, a low life expectancy, low taxation, we have the death penalty....Im sure it could be a long list.
Of course where we land on your balance will depend where you place your fulcrum. |
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