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06/06/2012 09:41:38 AM · #176 |
And out come the bigots...
Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
It's hard to sympathize with bigots, especially ones who claim religious superiority.
CS |
It's hard to sympathize with homosexuals, especially ones who claim whatever. Feel free to change homosexuals to little people, black, white, Asian, fat skinny, bald, hairy or whatever. It's just getting old. If there was actual discrimination then sure I can see a problem, but there wasn't. I just saw an article where the little people of America, or whatever the organization is called, are claiming discrimination because the new Snow White movie didn't cast little people in the role of the dwarfs. Should the owner of the business bash someone for who they are, absolutely not. Should they be allowed to adhere to their moral beliefs as long as they are not harming another person? I think so. Perhaps a person who's religious beliefs don't allow them to eat or touch pork, should they claim discrimination if a bbq caterer refuses to do their wedding because all they serve is pork or vice versa? Discrimination is thrown around far too loosely. Yes there are still real cases of it but for the most part it is bs. |
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06/06/2012 09:44:54 AM · #177 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
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06/06/2012 09:48:06 AM · #178 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
After all, this is what the conversation is about... |
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06/06/2012 09:50:44 AM · #179 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
After all, this is what the conversation is about... |
i know it seems inconcievable, but it IS possible to disagree with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc without hatred, i didnt see anything in the article where the owner delared hatred
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 09:51:21. |
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06/06/2012 09:53:31 AM · #180 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots... |
Hum, i don't think Joshua has come out with anything overtly bigoted here. Rather, i think he's mentioning something that others have alluded to in this thread and that can be seen as 'getting old', and that is an over-litigious society and i can understand that. But i do think that some cases are important and that is important not to throw the baby out with the bath water as it were.
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 09:56:53. |
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06/06/2012 09:56:02 AM · #181 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
i know it seems inconcievable, but it IS possible to disagree with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc without hatred, i didnt see anything in the article where the owner delared hatred |
Sure, but bigot is still the correct definition. Hatred isn't essential to be a bigot, just intolerance.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 10:17:20. |
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06/06/2012 09:56:21 AM · #182 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
After all, this is what the conversation is about... |
i know it seems inconcievable, but it IS possible to disagree with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc without hatred, i didnt see anything in the article where the owner delared hatred |
Maybe not hatred, but intolerance definitely. And again, it's not about disagreeing with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc it's about intolerance and discrimination against certain people. |
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06/06/2012 09:57:16 AM · #183 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Oh yes, this tired argument... "If you're not tolerant of my right to treat people different than me like shit, you're the intolerant one" business. |
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06/06/2012 09:57:58 AM · #184 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
After all, this is what the conversation is about... |
i know it seems inconcievable, but it IS possible to disagree with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc without hatred, i didnt see anything in the article where the owner delared hatred |
This is an excellent point. The bigot word came out way too quick.
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06/06/2012 10:01:48 AM · #185 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
|
and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
After all, this is what the conversation is about... |
i know it seems inconcievable, but it IS possible to disagree with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc without hatred, i didnt see anything in the article where the owner delared hatred |
He didn't declare it with words. But as usual, his actions said everything. |
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06/06/2012 10:04:43 AM · #186 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
i know it seems inconcievable, but it IS possible to disagree with a belief,lifetyle,choice etc without hatred, i didnt see anything in the article where the owner delared hatred |
i guess the point of thread has been made that you are allowed to do just that in your personal life, just not in your business. at that point seem fair.
in this particular case, its a fine line when one conducts their own business and one must keep that in perspective. however i still dont see anything wrong with politely declining to perform a service and the other party having the understanding to accept it.
it would be nice if that were the way things were. |
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06/06/2012 10:05:20 AM · #187 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Oh yes, this tired argument... "If you're not tolerant of my right to treat people different than me like shit, you're the intolerant one" business. |
I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, I have a sister that is gay. Love her? Yes. Help her out when she needs it? Yes. Agree with her lifestyle? No. Treat her like shit? No. |
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06/06/2012 10:05:48 AM · #188 |
Originally posted by MinsoPhoto:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
It's hard to sympathize with bigots, especially ones who claim religious superiority.
CS |
It's hard to sympathize with homosexuals, especially ones who claim whatever. Feel free to change homosexuals to little people, black, white, Asian, fat skinny, bald, hairy or whatever. It's just getting old. If there was actual discrimination then sure I can see a problem, but there wasn't. I just saw an article where the little people of America, or whatever the organization is called, are claiming discrimination because the new Snow White movie didn't cast little people in the role of the dwarfs. Should the owner of the business bash someone for who they are, absolutely not. Should they be allowed to adhere to their moral beliefs as long as they are not harming another person? I think so. Perhaps a person who's religious beliefs don't allow them to eat or touch pork, should they claim discrimination if a bbq caterer refuses to do their wedding because all they serve is pork or vice versa? Discrimination is thrown around far too loosely. Yes there are still real cases of it but for the most part it is bs. |
If people wouldn't discriminate based on how a person looks, where they're from, who they love etc., the problem would go away...but they do. Then to mask their hateful actions in the cloak of religion...that's even worse. |
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06/06/2012 10:08:29 AM · #189 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
i still dont see anything wrong with politely declining to perform a service and the other party having the understanding to accept it.
it would be nice if that were the way things were. |
Like signs in windows politely declaring that the business does not serve blacks. That IS the way things were and didn't work out so well. |
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06/06/2012 10:09:45 AM · #190 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by mike_311:
i still dont see anything wrong with politely declining to perform a service and the other party having the understanding to accept it.
it would be nice if that were the way things were. |
Like signs in windows politely declaring that the business does not serve blacks. That IS the way things were and didn't work out so well. |
eta, in hindsight i resind that statement
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 10:13:20. |
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06/06/2012 10:10:06 AM · #191 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
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and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Oh yes, this tired argument... "If you're not tolerant of my right to treat people different than me like shit, you're the intolerant one" business. |
I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, I have a sister that is gay. Love her? Yes. Help her out when she needs it? Yes. Agree with her lifestyle? No. Treat her like shit? No. |
I would appreciate you understanding how this whole forum thing works. My initial reply that you removed from context wasn't directed at you, was it? It was to another post by another person. Not you. Please figure it out. |
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06/06/2012 10:12:54 AM · #192 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
|
and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Oh yes, this tired argument... "If you're not tolerant of my right to treat people different than me like shit, you're the intolerant one" business. |
I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, I have a sister that is gay. Love her? Yes. Help her out when she needs it? Yes. Agree with her lifestyle? No. Treat her like shit? No. |
I would appreciate you understanding how this whole forum thing works. My initial reply that you removed from context wasn't directed at you, was it? It was to another post by another person. Not you. Please figure it out. |
Well I guess that works both ways, this is a public forum after all and it wasn't a pm you sent. Whatever, I'm done with you, you obviously seem to have trouble with a civil exchange of ideas. |
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06/06/2012 10:22:04 AM · #193 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Spork99:
And out come the bigots...
|
and what is a bigot? wait, don't tell me, anyone who doesn't share the same world view or moral compass as you right? give me a break, it sure is funny that in these conversations and threads the so-called "enlightened" people are the ones that seem to end up doing all the name calling and insulting. |
Oh yes, this tired argument... "If you're not tolerant of my right to treat people different than me like shit, you're the intolerant one" business. |
I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, I have a sister that is gay. Love her? Yes. Help her out when she needs it? Yes. Agree with her lifestyle? No. Treat her like shit? No. |
I would appreciate you understanding how this whole forum thing works. My initial reply that you removed from context wasn't directed at you, was it? It was to another post by another person. Not you. Please figure it out. |
Well I guess that works both ways, this is a public forum after all and it wasn't a pm you sent. Whatever, I'm done with you, you obviously seem to have trouble with a civil exchange of ideas. |
You're right, it wasn't a pm. You still took my remark out of context, took it personally and then got up in arms about my reply, waving your sister about like a flag of validation. Whatever...I guess your "enlightenment" is all shot to Hell now too.
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 10:26:05. |
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06/06/2012 10:59:09 AM · #194 |
The End Result
We should all learn to get along and play nicely in this sandbox. We have both peer-enforced rules that we have learned from playing with others, we have playground rules that we may stretch when convenient, and we have adults sitting off to the side, ready to step in when we can't settle things ourselves. Sometimes when the adults step in, they wipe clean the dirty signs with the playground rules and are a little quicker to enforce them, at least until they think we've shown them that we can handle things without as much adult supervision.
And sometimes some kids have to be sent home to learn their lesson. (And sometimes it takes a quick punch in the gut to let someone know they've really stepped out of line.)
However, when you are BUYING something,
wouldn't you want the best that you can afford? And wouldn't you want the best from whomever you are buying from?
Laws and rulings and ethics and morals and beliefs and philosophies aside, wouldn't you simply want someone who can do their best for you?
The BUYER should be the one doing the discriminating. They should be doing the research and asking the questions, looking for the best fit for whatever service they are purchasing. Rather than forcing a service provider to be all things to all people, let the service providers specialize. If they pick the wrong specialty (ie, there's not enough of a market to support their niche), then they will fail.
If I were [whatever] and I needed a [whatever] and I made contact with someone who could do [whatever], I would start off by asking them if they did much work with [whatever] and if so, how did they feel about the results. I would not take my minivan to an import garage. I would not interview a BBQ joint about catering my black-tie dinner. I would be looking for someone who could best handle my particular situation rather than trying to force someone out of their comfort zone. Sure, all the arguments in the world about fairness and equality and discrimination could require every provider to serve me, but is that really in my best interest? I think not...
[note: personally, I'll photograph anything (that won't get me put in jail) for anyone, especially if they're willing to pay.] |
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06/06/2012 11:04:15 AM · #195 |
Originally posted by Skip:
Sure, all the arguments in the world about fairness and equality and discrimination could require every provider to serve me, but is that really in my best interest? I think not... |
You're right, but like you mentioned, it should be the buyers choice, not the sellers. Then it's not discriminating but good decision making.
Originally posted by Skip:
[note: personally, I'll photograph anything (that won't get me put in jail) for anyone, especially if they're willing to pay.] |
You whore.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 11:04:33. |
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06/06/2012 11:08:42 AM · #196 |
This is a long thread with a lot of interesting points. Lots to think about.
I have another question to pose. What if we replaced the word "gay" with the word "ugly?"
As a photographer, do I have a right to refuse service to the less fortunate looking?
"I'm sorry. I don't do ugly weddings."
*tongue partially in cheek* |
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06/06/2012 11:10:42 AM · #197 |
Originally posted by adigitalromance:
This is a long thread with a lot of interesting points. Lots to think about.
I have another question to pose. What if we replaced the word "gay" with the word "ugly?"
As a photographer, do I have a right to refuse service to the less fortunate looking?
"I'm sorry. I don't do ugly weddings."
*tongue partially in cheek* |
Not protected under the law.
Ugly is subjective. Being gay, black, Jewish, ...., is not. It's pretty definitive if you're in one of those minority classes.
CS
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 11:11:02. |
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06/06/2012 11:14:02 AM · #198 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Not protected under the law.
Ugly is subjective. |
If ugly was protected under the law I would have had a much better adolescence. LOL |
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06/06/2012 11:15:28 AM · #199 |
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by adigitalromance:
This is a long thread with a lot of interesting points. Lots to think about.
I have another question to pose. What if we replaced the word "gay" with the word "ugly?"
As a photographer, do I have a right to refuse service to the less fortunate looking?
"I'm sorry. I don't do ugly weddings."
*tongue partially in cheek* |
Not protected under the law.
Ugly is subjective. Being gay, black, Jewish, ...., is not. It's pretty definitive if you're in one of those minority classes.
CS |
you mean a once hot young weather girl cant sue if she gets fired from the tv station after she has a few kids and get a few wrinkles?
or is that accepted practice?
any group can become a protected minority provided they have enough political influence.
Message edited by author 2012-06-06 11:17:48. |
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06/06/2012 11:19:02 AM · #200 |
Originally posted by mike_311:
Originally posted by cosmicassassin:
Originally posted by adigitalromance:
This is a long thread with a lot of interesting points. Lots to think about.
I have another question to pose. What if we replaced the word "gay" with the word "ugly?"
As a photographer, do I have a right to refuse service to the less fortunate looking?
"I'm sorry. I don't do ugly weddings."
*tongue partially in cheek* |
Not protected under the law.
Ugly is subjective. Being gay, black, Jewish, ...., is not. It's pretty definitive if you're in one of those minority classes.
CS |
you mean a once hot young weather girl cant sue if she gets fired from the tv station after she has a few kids and get a few wrinkles?
or is that accepted practice?
any group can become a protected minority provided they have enough political influence. |
Wrong country but //www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11696591 ;)
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