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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> SC --- anyone there?? Please help!!
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 05/17/2012 09:34:18 PM · #1
Regarding the rain challenge -- I'm so confused...

There have been tutorials posted here that show how to create rain using noise & motion blur or render fibers and motion blur.

I would have thought this was perfectly legal.

It sounds like I can draw rain if I want, can I create it as stated above?

But then I heard that you're using a texture to create an element (rain) this way. But if the texture was created today, isn't that ok?

What if I took a picture of rain, and used that as part of an overlay, is that ok, if the picture was taken during the challenge shooting time?

Please help!!! There's a bit conflicting information going around.

Thanks. :)
 05/17/2012 09:41:01 PM · #2
any pictures YOU take during the challenge period are legal in expert. you can aslo draw in rain. You aren't allowed to use any brushes you did not create or downloaded.

//www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/09/25/38-photoshop-tutorials-on-rain-showers-and-water-drops/
 05/17/2012 09:42:54 PM · #3
Well the SC have said something entirely different and I'm sooooo confused!
 05/17/2012 09:44:05 PM · #4
Yes, but rumor has it that you can't create new elements to your image via blur. Which doesn't make much sense.
 05/17/2012 09:44:14 PM · #5
Wendy, it seems to me that all you mentioned is perfectly acceptable in expert editing. Whatever you do and create in the allowed period of time.
 05/17/2012 09:55:16 PM · #6
Originally posted by mariuca:
Wendy, it seems to me that all you mentioned is perfectly acceptable in expert editing. Whatever you do and create in the allowed period of time.


I would have thought so too. I think maybe there's just a miscommunication...

But hopefully as SC member will be bored and pop in. :)
 05/17/2012 10:11:55 PM · #7
Here's my SC opinion, for what it's worth.

To me, Expert is basically a free-for-all, with very few restrictions. There's not a whole lot of editing that will get you into trouble under this ruleset. The one rule that I'd be concerned about is: "You may not add graphics or clip art images to your entry or its border during editing."

For that reason, I'd be concerned about drawing anything into an entry in case it is deemed a "graphic." I would see no problem, personally, with taking a picture of rain and overlaying it onto the shot. Or even taking a picture of something else, and editing it to look like rain.

But you should be fine with doing pretty much any kind of editing to any of the photographic elements of the shot... blurring them, twisting them, whatever. Just be sure you're using photos that were taken within the proper timeframe.

Anywho... those are my thoughts.

EDIT: And the rules even say that things that are being used as textures don't need to meet the date requirements. ("You may use images that do not meet the source or date requirements as textures in your entry if they function specifically as textures and not to circumvent other rules")

Message edited by author 2012-05-17 22:15:18.
 05/17/2012 10:16:59 PM · #8
What about creating a new layer, filling it with noise, adding motion blur to create rain? Is that a texture creating a feature and is not allowed? Or is that acceptable?
 05/17/2012 10:18:20 PM · #9
Your edited statement is one of the issues -- is rain considered a texture, or is it considered a feature and you can't use textures (aka noise & motion blur) to create a feature.
 05/17/2012 10:27:37 PM · #10
from over in the In The Rain thread...

Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by mefnj:
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by ozmaster:
Assuming this is fake rain, does anybody know how to create rain like this?


rain

eta: There's also Ulead particle pro...


we had some rain, but may need to augment it... are we sure this method of creating a rain "texture" or effect is OK in Expert??

-mefnj


Yes. You're using tools in photoshop to create it. If you were for instance, borrowing a picture and using it as an overlay it might get touchy. But this way is within the rules.
05/17/2012 10:28:29 PM · #11
I remember reading one time that Gyaban used noise to create the stars in one of his photos.
 05/17/2012 10:53:43 PM · #12
Originally posted by vawendy:
What about creating a new layer, filling it with noise, adding motion blur to create rain? Is that a texture creating a feature and is not allowed? Or is that acceptable?


By these rules, this is OK...

apply a full range of editing tools to all or part of your entry.
use layers, layer masks, and alternative layer modes.

eta: The no new features rule is not part of the expert rule set.

Message edited by author 2012-05-17 22:55:04.
 05/17/2012 10:57:51 PM · #13
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by vawendy:
What about creating a new layer, filling it with noise, adding motion blur to create rain? Is that a texture creating a feature and is not allowed? Or is that acceptable?


By these rules, this is OK...

apply a full range of editing tools to all or part of your entry.
use layers, layer masks, and alternative layer modes.

eta: The no new features rule is not part of the expert rule set.


oooh -- good noticing, Kelli! Good answer!

Mine actually is real water, but I've been discussing this with people and surprised at some of the responses. :)
 05/17/2012 11:03:43 PM · #14
In the future, please submit a ticket to SC well before the deadline... that way we can discuss it internally and give you a better, cohesive answer. Waiting until just before the deadline and trying to get quick responses isn't going to necessarily yield the best answers, I'm afraid...
 05/17/2012 11:21:01 PM · #15
The only trick with textures is that in order to qualify for the extra leniency of that file type, those files MUST be used as textures (and not something else).
 05/18/2012 06:14:47 AM · #16
when i "expert" edit, if i took or created it myself withing the time period, its legal.

I'd really be curious to find out what if anything in expert editing would go against that mindset. i doubt there will be any.

fwiw, i recently had an image validated in expert where i use motion blur to create rain and replaced the entire background with a gradient. passed with flying colors.

Message edited by author 2012-05-18 06:16:17.
 05/18/2012 07:21:05 AM · #17
See now I am confused because I have an idea for superpowers where I would need to draw something in to the picture or at least extend a part of the picture by hand drawing and manipulating parts of a fairly major element in the image.

I thought we had pretty much a free hand in Expert I didn't realise drawing some elements in or generating elements from scratch would be cause for concern. I do know that I the guideline is to keep it photographic in nature and I believe I can draw the element I want in a fairly realistic manner but don't want a DQ on my hands....

The image is going to take me most of the week as it requires a fair amount of planning and lots of trips out to get various photos, so I am not sure I will be able to submit it to SC before hand to get a verdict on the final image, could SC confirm if we are allowed to hand draw an element even if it's only under certain circumstances, because if this is not the case then I will need to approach the who picture from a different angle.

TIA
Mark
05/18/2012 08:02:26 AM · #18
Originally posted by Mark-A:
See now I am confused because I have an idea for superpowers where I would need to draw something in to the picture or at least extend a part of the picture by hand drawing and manipulating parts of a fairly major element in the image.

I thought we had pretty much a free hand in Expert I didn't realise drawing some elements in or generating elements from scratch would be cause for concern. I do know that I the guideline is to keep it photographic in nature and I believe I can draw the element I want in a fairly realistic manner but don't want a DQ on my hands....

The image is going to take me most of the week as it requires a fair amount of planning and lots of trips out to get various photos, so I am not sure I will be able to submit it to SC before hand to get a verdict on the final image, could SC confirm if we are allowed to hand draw an element even if it's only under certain circumstances, because if this is not the case then I will need to approach the who picture from a different angle.

TIA
Mark


I know in past expert challenges, it was ok to render an element from scratch. The one that comes to mind is the winner of the Michael Jackson tribute challenge where Jackson's silhouette was drawn in.


Might possibly make a difference as to how big the element is? Not sure.
 05/18/2012 08:16:16 AM · #19
That's helpful thanks Mark.

Can SC confirm this is still the case please :)
 05/18/2012 08:52:04 AM · #20
Originally posted by Expert Editing Rules:
You may:

ΓΆ€ΒΆ apply a full range of editing tools to all or part of your entry.

You may not:

ΓΆ€ΒΆ add graphics or clip art images to your entry or its border during editing.

ΓΆ€ΒΆ add text or any legible characters to your entry or its border during editing. This includes copyright statements.

As I interpret the rules, you can use painting/drawing tools to create elements, but do not use "clip art" or special brushes with pre-defined shapes, or the text tool(s).
 05/18/2012 09:57:40 AM · #21
clip art or graphics aren't items you created.

05/18/2012 02:19:51 PM · #22
Originally posted by mike_311:
clip art or graphics aren't items you created.

Right, but they are sometimes bundled with editing software, and so might be considered (by some) to be "part" of the program, as might be packages of pre-defined brushes. Just trying (in vain) to cover all the ways people might make a mistake ...
Originally posted by (attributed to) H.D. Thoreau:
It is impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious.
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