Birth control rant - DPChallenge Forums

05/11/2012 04:21:50 PM · #1326

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

The issue is so polarizing that the shines with a glare so bright as to blind those against PP to its other benefits. PP is the de facto abortion provider in the US.

Planned Parenthood accounts for less than a quarter of abortions in the U.S., and those only represent 3% of the organization's services. Contraception accounts for 35% services, which ironically makes PP, the nation's largest abortion preventer.

05/11/2012 04:44:16 PM · #1327

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
The issue is so polarizing that the shines with a glare so bright as to blind those against PP to its other benefits. PP is the de facto abortion provider in the US.

Planned Parenthood accounts for less than a quarter of abortions in the U.S., and those only represent 3% of the organization's services. Contraception accounts for 35% services, which ironically makes PP, the nation's largest abortion preventer.

I saw 300,000 listed as the number per year reported by wiki among 800,000 a year. That means 37% and my meaning by "de facto" is "the largest single provider" (probably not the proper use for the term). It's 3% of the organization's serives by number of services, but 15% of their budget by dollars. (a good example of "spin". 3% is true, but sounds a lot lower than 15%. It's no accident PP phrases it in this manner.) But there is no need to argue. Two facts. 1) They perform abortions. 2) They perform other services. I am personally happy to accept #2 while some people are so blinded by #1 they would rather just do away with PP altogether.

If we want to quibble about them being the largest preventer you'd have to show me that they prescribe the most birth control prescriptions (assuming we use this as a proxy for "preventing" abortions). I have no idea, but I'd guess there may be other significant players. Large insurance companies (Blue cross?), the government in other capacities, etc.

Message edited by author 2012-05-11 17:00:42.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

05/11/2012 05:05:46 PM · #1328

Why does birth control have to be limited to prescriptions? If they handed out condoms does that count?

05/11/2012 05:06:13 PM · #1329

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

The most recent annual figure I could find was 1.21 million, which makes 300,000 less than 25%. They are indeed the largest provider... and no more the de facto provider than HP is the de facto provider of personal computers.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

It's 3% of the organization's serives by number of services, but 15% of their budget by dollars. (a good example of "spin". 3% is true, but sounds a lot lower than 15%. It's no accident PP phrases it in this manner.

A car or house represents a tiny percentage of my purchases, but because there are more dollars involved they should count as a major fraction of my shopping habits? Yes, that's an excellent example of spin. It's a larger percentage of their budget because the other services are subsidized while this comes entirely out of their budget (which, again, should be obvious to a doctor).

Message edited by author 2012-05-11 17:09:46.

05/11/2012 05:09:16 PM · #1330

Originally posted by mike_311:

Why does birth control have to be limited to prescriptions?

Because the whole brouhaha was an insurance issue. If you could walk into a 7-11 and buy the pill, this would be a different conversation.

05/11/2012 05:19:14 PM · #1331

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I saw 300,000 listed as the number per year reported by wiki among 800,000 a year. That means 37% and my meaning by "de facto" is "the largest single provider" (probably not the proper use for the term).

The most recent annual figure I could find was 1.21 million, which makes 300,000 less than 25%. They are indeed the largest provider... and no more the de facto provider than HP is the de facto provider of personal computers.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's 3% of the organization's serives by number of services, but 15% of their budget by dollars. (a good example of "spin". 3% is true, but sounds a lot lower than 15%. It's no accident PP phrases it in this manner.

A car or house represents a tiny percentage of my purchases, but because there are more dollars involved they should count as a major fraction of my shopping habits? Yes, that's an excellent example of spin. It's a larger percentage of their budget because the other services are subsidized while this comes entirely out of their budget (which, again, should be obvious to a doctor).

Probably they should just report the actual number and let the reader judge whether they think it is a lot or not, eh? "Planned Parenthood provides 300,000 abortions a year." The 15% is as good a number as the 3% but I agree it is also "spun".

Where did you find the 1.21 million abortions number? That would be a significant increase over the CDC statistics which seem to hold stable at 800,000 for the last number of years. Again, the point was "they are the largest". If there's someone that provides more, then let me know.

You can actually work the numbers backward to figure the rough number of women served by their contraceptive services (and Mike, you are correct, giving out condoms should "count" as well, I was just being lazy in my terminology).

300,000 abortions is 3% of "services".
Total services is then 10,000,000.
Contraception is 35% of services.
number of contraceptive services is then 3.5 million.

It gets a little tricky here becuse we don't know what they count as "a service". But let's assume for a year each women gets between 1 and 12 "services" to be fully protected by birth control. This makes the highest likely number of women served 3.5 million. The lowest would be around 300,000. This is out of a population of (according to the CDC) 38 million women (in 2008) who use birth control. So the population served is between 0.7% and 9% of the "piece of the pie". Assuming those are the bounding limits we can see they probably only provide a small piece of the country's contraceptive needs.

Message edited by author 2012-05-11 17:20:32.

Mike

Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 Di VC USD Canon Mount

05/11/2012 05:22:52 PM · #1332

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by mike_311:
Why does birth control have to be limited to prescriptions?

Because the whole brouhaha was an insurance issue. If you could walk into a 7-11 and buy the pill, this would be a different conversation.

Oh, well its kind of dumb to exclude the most popular form of birth control for the group most likely to get an abortion.

05/11/2012 05:25:21 PM · #1333

BTW, the CDC numbers for abortion I reported on for 2008 only came out six months ago so I doubt there are more recent numbers.

You can also find a really interesting report on birth control use in the US 1982-2008 from the CDC here.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/11/2012 09:55:30 PM · #1334

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Where did you find the 1.21 million abortions number? That would be a significant increase over the CDC statistics which seem to hold stable at 800,000 for the last number of years.

The number reported to CDC in 2008 excluded California, Maryland and New Hampshire. The total number reported by Guttmacher (the reference used by National Right to Life, Pro-Choice America, USA Today, MSNBC, NY Times, Politifact, National Review, FactCheck, ABC News, etc.) is 1.2 million.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Again, the point was "they are the largest". If there's someone that provides more, then let me know.

HP provides the most computers, GM provides the most cars, Viacom provides the most movie experiences, and the market share for each is just a little lower than Planned Parenthood, so that must make them the de facto providers, too. If there's someone that provides more, let me know.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

05/11/2012 11:00:06 PM · #1335

For those having trouble keeping up with the discussion:

How To Lie With Statistics

05/12/2012 02:02:55 AM · #1336

Ok Shannon,you win. Planned Parenthood is the General Motors of abortions. I'll just have to live with that.

Btw, you were correct that the 800,000 was not a complete number. I had thought it to be an extrapolated one, but I was wrong.

Message edited by author 2012-05-12 02:33:30.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

05/12/2012 02:15:16 AM · #1337

Originally posted by GeneralE:

For those having trouble keeping up with the discussion:

How To Lie With Statistics

I seem to recall an old say that went something like: " There are lies, damn lies and then stastitics".

Mind you, there are instances when another old adage might be applicable, namely "My mind is made up... don't confuse me with facts."

... and on that note..."Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are. (Methinks I might be showing my age with this one.

Ray

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

05/12/2012 01:18:03 PM · #1338

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Mind you, there are instances when another old adage might be applicable, namely "My mind is made up... don't confuse me with facts."

This conservative's mantra was one of my dad's favorites ... he also used to point out that changing your mind could be a good thing -- it provided proof that you had one ...

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

05/12/2012 02:22:20 PM · #1339

Originally posted by RayEthier:

"Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are." (Methinks I might be showing my age with this one.

I can still see the spotlight, the empty-but-for-the-Schnoz stage... I loved that man... I'll be old along with you, OK?

R.

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/15/2012 05:20:36 PM · #1340

It's starting to happen.

Franciscan University of Steubenville drops student health plan over HHS mandate

Originally posted by from site:

An employee of the university, Tom Crowe, wrote his employerâ��s message was brisk and clear: â��We. Will. Not. Comply. And our students are the first one who will feel the pinch.â�� He added that the university is not self-insuring and would not have been exempt from the mandate, adding such an exemption exists â��on paper only.â��

Catholics universities are not the only religious institutions poised to take drastic action as a result of the Obama administrationâ��s abortifacient decree.

Chicagoâ��s Francis Cardinal George has warned all Catholic hospitals will close in two years unless the religious exemption is expanded. Together, the nationâ��s Catholic hospitals account for 13 percent of the nationâ��s hospitals.

If these hospitals closed it would create a supply shortage, with the likely effect being government programs will be forced to pick up the slack.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

05/15/2012 05:34:08 PM · #1341

[quote=Nullix] It's starting to happen.

What is it exactly that is happening?

If Catholics truly adhere to the directions of the church, they will not use the pill, not use condoms and of course not engage in pre-marital sex.

Since sex for married couples is solely for procreation, what is the problem here.

Ray

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

05/15/2012 05:52:23 PM · #1342

I am looking forward to the supreme court ruling over Obama Care.

I think that this will end up hurting his campaigne because a lot of people are so bitter over it.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/15/2012 06:02:33 PM · #1343

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

I am looking forward to the supreme court ruling over Obama Care.

I think that this will end up hurting his campaigne because a lot of people are so bitter over it.

I think you're forgetting, a lot more people aren't.

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

05/15/2012 06:07:02 PM · #1344

Well around here I am hard pressed to find some1 that wants it.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/15/2012 06:13:53 PM · #1345

Originally posted by Kelli:

Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I am looking forward to the supreme court ruling over Obama Care.

I think that this will end up hurting his campaigne because a lot of people are so bitter over it.

I think you're forgetting, a lot more people aren't.

Though I stand with you on this issue, I think you always assume "a lot more people" are always in your corner when the reality is stark division.

It doesn't matter though, the question is not whether SCOTUS will strike it down but whether they will strike down the entire bill or only portions.

Message edited by author 2012-05-15 18:14:42.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

05/15/2012 06:25:53 PM · #1346

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Well around here I am hard pressed to find some1 that wants it.

This is a pretty good article... //biasinonlinesurveys.idiary.com/?p=64

Public support for health care reform

When asked about what should be the goals of health care reform, about 90% of all Americans indicated that it was important to find a way to get health insurance for those who are uninsured, to prevent insurance companies from refusing to ensure people with pre-existing conditions, and to prevent insurance companies from dropping persons due to illness. About six out of every 10 said these goals were â��critically importantâ��. Only one of every 10 said they were not important. These goals remain at the core of Mr. Obamaâ��s health care reforms. Other goals were less popular but still had the support of a majority of Americans.

Secondly, Pew Research polls reported that 71% to 76% of Americans felt that the US health care system needed to be completely rebuilt or fundamentally changed. The status quo was unacceptable. One would conclude that if Obamacare was to be faulted, it would be because the changes it proposed were not fundamental enough.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/15/2012 06:36:01 PM · #1347

Of course, Kelli. That's like polling with the question, "Are you against AIDS?" and then taking that result to claim a government mandate of publically funding medicines for all HIV patients.

We're all for affordable healthcare. Democrats. Republicans. Everybody. Nobody is even arguing that the current system seems to be broken. But the big argument is HOW to fix it...

Message edited by author 2012-05-15 18:36:56.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

05/15/2012 06:38:34 PM · #1348

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Well, duh. Did you even read the article?