| Author | Thread |
|
|
03/28/2012 11:08:01 PM · #301 |
Ha...me too. Now ABC put out a video of Zimm getting out of the police car all clean with the headline Trayvon Martin Video Shows No Blood or Bruises on George Zimmerman It is a video taken after he was given aid at the scene and transported to the station. The video is bad and doesn't show much of anything. However, at one point you can see an officer actually move behind Zimm and look at the back of his head for a few seconds as if he is checking out "the" injury. Another thing about the video is the size of Zimm...he looks a lot smaller than the 230 pounds that has been being reported. Those are just my observations though.
I believe ABC has done a disservice to that Florida community by posting this video with that headline. It is just going to inflame everyone and may even boil the pot over.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by kenskid:
This is NOT even remotely what is being reported. This looks like something Jessie and Al would like to see.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
911: Do not follow him. Wait for officers.
Zimmerman: *follow, scuffle, bang!*
Police: Clear case of self defense.
I agree that it doesn't make any sense and also agree that we are missing big chunks of the facts from this story. At a minimum, the local police are guilty of the worst possible handling of the situation. At this point, it is a senseless tragedy. Let's hope it does not escalate into a series of more senseless tragedies. |
|
Paraphrasing what I heard reported a few days ago. Since then, I've heard lots more details, but much of it still confusing, conflicting and contradictory.
As mentioned, my main beef at the moment is the lack of coherent facts coming out. I'd like to see a timeline of witness reports and evidence. |
|
|
|
|
03/28/2012 11:30:38 PM · #302 |
I cannot believe the people defending Zimmerman here. Innocent until proven guilty, sure. But the family isn't even getting the CHANCE to prove he's guilty because he hasn't been taken to stand trial.
It's not oh well, you're not proven guilty so we won't arrest you in the first place. What country do you live in?
Everyone is trying to say this is about race. It IS but only in the way that it's painfully obvious that if Treyvon wasn't black, the shooter would be arrested. Trying to spin it like "oh there wouldn't be outrage if he was white" is nonsense. Of course there would be. But it wouldn't happen because a hooded white kid wouldn't have made Zimmerman feel so threatened that he had to follow him and shoot him in the rain.
Defending a grown man shooting an unarmed kid on the street is very telling for the kind of person you are. All of you on the side of the shooter, for shame. |
|
|
|
03/28/2012 11:34:43 PM · #303 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
a hooded white kid wouldn't have made Zimmerman feel so threatened that he had to follow him and shoot him in the rain. |
Wow, it's like you were actually there, witnessing all that occurred from inside Zimmerman's head. You really should avail yourself to the Special Investigator and tell them all that you know. |
|
|
|
03/28/2012 11:38:29 PM · #304 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
a hooded white kid wouldn't have made Zimmerman feel so threatened that he had to follow him and shoot him in the rain. |
Wow, it's like you were actually there, witnessing all that occurred from inside Zimmerman's head. You really should avail yourself to the Special Investigator and tell them all that you know. |
The public had to step in and show their outrage because no special investigator is now are they? I don't CARE what was in his head right now, that's for later. He can defend himself in a proper trial. He killed someone, he needs to be arrested. End of story.
Him calling the cops what, 40 something times? Sounds like he needs some mental help for his rampant paranoia. But no no, keep diluting yourself into thinking Treyvon deserved this.
This just shows how ready people are to empathize with a killer, but not with this victim. You'd be singing a different tune if it was your son that got shot. How would you feel?
Message edited by author 2012-03-28 23:39:17. |
|
|
|
03/28/2012 11:50:17 PM · #305 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
Seconds, a second or part of a second to make a decision and act. Months and years to decide if the guy made the right decision. How fair is that?
Please forgive me, but being from a country with crime written all over it and utmost protection of the criminal, I am very strong on the right to self defense. |
Yea that argument holds ground in court I'm certain. What about Treyvon's seconds, months and years.
You honestly think Zimmerman was SO THREATENED that he HAD to make the life or death decision on someone else's behalf? NO. He could have gone inside and driven the other way if he was so scared. But so far I've been given absolutely NO cause to believe he was acting in self defense. A trial is absolutely necessary.
You take a life, you shouldn't be allowed to just go on with no repercussions whatsoever. A trial IS fair. Social outrage IS fair. It's MORE THAN FAIR to the shooter. It's very unfair for Treyvon. He gets no trial. He gets no inconvenience. He gets no life.
Your lack of empathy for Treyvon is alarming. What did he do that was criminal? Walk in the rain with a hoodie and skittles? The shooter isn't a criminal? Just a man defending his "hood"? Because he couldn't fathom that a black kid could be walking around it and actually live there?
Message edited by author 2012-03-28 23:52:21. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 01:35:37 AM · #306 |
In addition to the images of a cleaned up Zimmermam not showing any blood on him (what a surprise!) the press can't be proud of the amazing number of details coming out about Mr Martin's school disciplinary record. Though he was never charged in court, we have been told he was a vandal(sprayed graffiti on school grounds), was found with women's jewelry and a "burglary implement" and was suspended for drug possession. Pretty damning information, especially for a kid who was never charged with anything in court, and never was asked to defend himself.
So my question is two fold; aren't these sorts of school disciplinary issues supposed to be privileged? These sort of punishments are not part of the public record since they involve minors, and there is not the degree of due process that exists in court cases. How was the press made aware of these charges? In the "drug charge" since case since Martin was suspended with another kid who talked to the press, we know that a baggie with trace amounts of marijuana was found and the school could not determine who's it was, so the school suspended both of them. I wonder when the rest of what is supposed to be a private record is forced open, if the rest of the leaked information will be seen to be as distorted in what we have been presented with.
No surprise but this case is not exactly covering the press in glory.
|
|
|
|
03/29/2012 05:27:30 AM · #307 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
I cannot believe the people defending Zimmerman here. Innocent until proven guilty, sure. But the family isn't even getting the CHANCE to prove he's guilty because he hasn't been taken to stand trial. |
There is a process to be adhered to when dealing with situations such as these.
The police gather information, make representations to the District Attorney and it is that person who makes the ultimate decision whether to proceed or not.
In this instance it would seem that the DA opted not to proceed for reasons unknown to us.
In time I am certain we will be informed as to the reasons why and until such time, Mr. Zimmerman has not been charged nor convicted of an offence.
Like it or not... at this juncture he is very much innocent in the eyes of the law.
Ray |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 11:32:22 AM · #308 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by escapetooz:
I cannot believe the people defending Zimmerman here. Innocent until proven guilty, sure. But the family isn't even getting the CHANCE to prove he's guilty because he hasn't been taken to stand trial. |
There is a process to be adhered to when dealing with situations such as these.
The police gather information, make representations to the District Attorney and it is that person who makes the ultimate decision whether to proceed or not.
In this instance it would seem that the DA opted not to proceed for reasons unknown to us.
In time I am certain we will be informed as to the reasons why and until such time, Mr. Zimmerman has not been charged nor convicted of an offence.
Like it or not... at this juncture he is very much innocent in the eyes of the law.
Ray |
I'm not ignorant to the way things work. I don't share your trust in the sound decision making of the DA. The FBI might be taking a different stance. I hope so. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 11:39:25 AM · #309 |
I have a feeling that the police don't have enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of the crime at hand. And yes he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty by a panel of his peers.
|
|
|
|
03/29/2012 12:00:36 PM · #310 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I have a feeling that the police don't have enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of the crime at hand. |
Agreed, but I'll bet the FBI is able to find enough to charge him with a crime. The local cops in Sanford have a pretty poor record of finding anything to charge people with on this sort of case. The FBI rarely has that problem. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 12:41:40 PM · #311 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
I have a feeling that the police don't have enough evidence to convict Zimmerman of the crime at hand. And yes he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty by a panel of his peers. |
Again the point. There was no panel of his peers. He was just assumed innocent and let go until this outcry. No one's trying to pass up his trial, they're trying to get one. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 02:57:28 PM · #312 |
Personally I'm with Monica on this one. But regardless of who is guilty of what, the local officials are acting like what is sometimes called the "Good ole boy network". I first heard this term years ago when my husband was being sued by a woman in a small town here in KY. There were two classes of people there, the city officials and everybody else. The sheriff was brother of the woman, the prosecuting attorney was her best friend, etc. Zimmerman's dad is a judge. He has been arrested and slapped on the wrist for assault on an officer and still allowed to carry a gun. I believe this is a case of a spoiled asshole with a gun and a state with insane defense laws and local officials without a conscience.
Innocent until proven guilty, but he took a life and there needs to be a trial. Now that the locals are off the case, I think everything will come out eventually. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 03:12:52 PM · #313 |
If the cops screwed up the investigation bad enough that the evidence needed to lay a charge and take it to trial isn't there, it doesn't matter if he stands up and confesses in the media right now about what happened; we don't have the evidence.
I know of a case going through the courts right now here in BC where a guy murdered his wife and we have to take a plea to manslaughter because the police screwed up the investigation so bad, we aren't even sure that we can get in the evidence of the BODY let alone the confession made. If they had done their job right, we would have had second degree murder in the bag!
Its really easy to condemn the prosecutorial decision making process, but they have an obligation to only lay charges that meet a charge approval standard. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 06:01:24 PM · #314 |
Originally posted by frisca:
If the cops screwed up the investigation bad enough that the evidence needed to lay a charge and take it to trial isn't there, it doesn't matter if he stands up and confesses in the media right now about what happened; we don't have the evidence.
I know of a case going through the courts right now here in BC where a guy murdered his wife and we have to take a plea to manslaughter because the police screwed up the investigation so bad, we aren't even sure that we can get in the evidence of the BODY let alone the confession made. If they had done their job right, we would have had second degree murder in the bag!
Its really easy to condemn the prosecutorial decision making process, but they have an obligation to only lay charges that meet a charge approval standard. |
I completely agree with the comments contained in your last paragraph and would hasten to point out that in the case mentioned here that the ultimate decision rested solely with the DA and not the police.
Notwithstanding my respect for both you and your profession, I can't say that I agree with the bolded portion of your comment. I spent 30 years working in the RCMP, prepared many a court brief, and found that the vast majority of cases I dealt with resulted in plea bargaining... saves time, money and meets the old "a bird in the hand" adage.
Mind you, things might have changed a tad since I retired in 1996.
Ray |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 06:21:08 PM · #315 |
He needs a trial but they need to move it to a different city
|
|
|
|
03/29/2012 06:23:15 PM · #316 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
He needs a trial but they need to move it to a different city |
or an island. ...like GTMO. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 06:29:02 PM · #317 |
Originally posted by cowboy221977:
He needs a trial but they need to move it to a different city |
...Wanting a trial and actually meeting the requirements to have a decent expectation of a conviction are two separate and very distinct things.
Ray |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 06:40:20 PM · #318 |
I don't want to be anywhere near the city where this guy is tried or not tried. Powder keg.
It could turn out once all the evidence is in that it was justified and even if not, he might only end up being involuntary manslaughter - if either of those end up being the case, buildings will burn regardless of the facts or the evidence because of all the hype and rhetoric. For that I place much of the blame back on the cops for not foreseeing all this and doing a better PR job. But more to blame are the folks jumping to conclusions and all kinds of ignorant assumptions.
Monica - what are you going to say if he goes to trial and it turns out he was justified or if a jury finds him not guilty of anything? Riot in the streets? Burn buildings and shops of innocent people? What good came out of the Rodney King riots??
I'm not saying he is innocent - that would be stupid since I don't have anywhere near the information a jury would end up having - but I am not calling him a murderer or even a racist because that would be equally stupid for the same reasons. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 10:14:49 PM · #319 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
I don't want to be anywhere near the city where this guy is tried or not tried. Powder keg.
It could turn out once all the evidence is in that it was justified and even if not, he might only end up being involuntary manslaughter - if either of those end up being the case, buildings will burn regardless of the facts or the evidence because of all the hype and rhetoric. For that I place much of the blame back on the cops for not foreseeing all this and doing a better PR job. But more to blame are the folks jumping to conclusions and all kinds of ignorant assumptions.
Monica - what are you going to say if he goes to trial and it turns out he was justified or if a jury finds him not guilty of anything? Riot in the streets? Burn buildings and shops of innocent people? What good came out of the Rodney King riots??
I'm not saying he is innocent - that would be stupid since I don't have anywhere near the information a jury would end up having - but I am not calling him a murderer or even a racist because that would be equally stupid for the same reasons. |
I don't think Monica is calling Zimmerman a racist or a murderer, but she is saying that there appears to be a double standard at work here. Beyond what Zimmerman did and whether he's a racist, the problem is with the investigation and the decision not to arrest and prosecute. Do you really think that if the shooter had been black, and given all the other information that has come to light, that no charges would have been brought against that person? First there was the excuse that the Stand Your Ground law made it impossible to prosecute, but then we discover that the shooter was in pursuit. Then we're told that the kid beat up Zimmerman, but then we see with our own eyes that a half-hour after the incident there's no blood or bandages on Zimmerman (who supposedly had suffered a broken nose and head injuries). Apparently the police didn't think he was injured sufficiently to warrant a visit to the hospital. Then it comes out that the police did a drug test on the dead kid but not on the shooter. Did you ever hear of such a thing? Now we're hearing that the lead investigator wanted at least manslaughter charges brought against Zimmerman, and he said he's looking forward to "the truth coming out." And last but not least, they're now trying to slime the dead kid, making it out like he was a thug. I mean, if you've got honest-to-goodness justification for letting Zimmerman off, you don't need to discredit the dead kid, do you?
You say you're willing to wait for a jury to make a decision, but the whole point is that a trial would never take place had the public not been outraged by the handling of this case. Why is this so difficult to understand? |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 11:20:04 PM · #320 |
Your lack of empathy for Treyvon is alarming. What did he do that was criminal? Walk in the rain with a hoodie and skittles? The shooter isn't a criminal? Just a man defending his "hood"? Because he couldn't fathom that a black kid could be walking around it and actually live there?[i][/i]
Alarming in the sense that I stand for facts and not emotion? Let it be known the truth is out there somewhere; but not you or any one including me know all of it.
In a civilization the citizens wait for the court to decide. |
|
|
|
03/29/2012 11:24:49 PM · #321 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
In a civilization the citizens wait for the court to decide. |
And the popular call is for Mr Zimmerman to have his day in court, not to allow a small town police department to be the sole arbiters of any possible criminal wrong doing; Which would have been the outcome had there not been a hue and cry. |
|
|
|
03/30/2012 12:48:27 AM · #322 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by docpjv:
In a civilization the citizens wait for the court to decide. |
And the popular call is for Mr Zimmerman to have his day in court, not to allow a small town police department to be the sole arbiters of any possible criminal wrong doing; Which would have been the outcome had there not been a hue and cry. |
Are you suggesting you are NOT a civilization? ;-)
So I said from the beginning. Get the truth. Emotions are strangle unreliable and lead to assume (ass/u/me) which leads to hysteria which leads to riots and street justice. Take every assumption and opinion and speculation and perceived truths and half truths and emotions out of this thread and it will not be a page long!
I pray never to be in either of the two situations. Life itself has enough trials and tribulations. |
|
|
|
03/30/2012 01:28:52 AM · #323 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
Your lack of empathy for Treyvon is alarming. What did he do that was criminal? Walk in the rain with a hoodie and skittles? The shooter isn't a criminal? Just a man defending his "hood"? Because he couldn't fathom that a black kid could be walking around it and actually live there?[i][/i]
Alarming in the sense that I stand for facts and not emotion? Let it be known the truth is out there somewhere; but not you or any one including me know all of it.
In a civilization the citizens wait for the court to decide. |
This is a convenient rant yet you fail to address the fact that all of your previous comments seem to side with the shooter. Let's wait for the truth indeed. That's what's alarming to me. You want ME to wait for the "facts" but you can side with the shooter as you please.
We know the facts. Zimmerman alive. Trayvon dead. What more do you need to think a trial is necessary? |
|
|
|
03/30/2012 04:14:08 AM · #324 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Originally posted by docpjv:
Your lack of empathy for Treyvon is alarming. What did he do that was criminal? Walk in the rain with a hoodie and skittles? The shooter isn't a criminal? Just a man defending his "hood"? Because he couldn't fathom that a black kid could be walking around it and actually live there?[i][/i]
Alarming in the sense that I stand for facts and not emotion? Let it be known the truth is out there somewhere; but not you or any one including me know all of it.
In a civilization the citizens wait for the court to decide. |
This is a convenient rant yet you fail to address the fact that all of your previous comments seem to side with the shooter. Let's wait for the truth indeed. That's what's alarming to me. You want ME to wait for the "facts" but you can side with the shooter as you please.
We know the facts. Zimmerman alive. Trayvon dead. What more do you need to think a trial is necessary? |
You may read anything into what I said. Yet what I said from the beginning is that nobody, including you, have the right to judge Zimmerman for what has happened. You may say you would have acted differently. I doubt it. Please read, in context, the actual words. Obviously I do not side with anyone, not the so called victim nor the so called assailant. In your civilization the point to start at will be to look at the law and if any of that has been transgressed.
Sorry if I upset you. I also do not intend to do that. Peace in your quest for the truth. I am will ing to wait for it without judging too soon based on emotions and opinions. |
|
|
|
04/03/2012 11:07:54 AM · #325 |
Originally posted by escapetooz:
We know the facts. Zimmerman alive. Trayvon dead. What more do you need to think a trial is necessary? |
This is a very telling statement regarding your view on this matter.
1. There are more facts to consider than these two.
2. An arrest/prosecution/trial is not done to discover guilt or innocence. That decision is made by the Prosecutors Office based on their evidence. They prosecute those they believe (and the evidence supports) are guilty of a crime.
3. A trial is a formal proceeding whereby the Prosecutor presents their evidence of guilt while the defense tries to dismiss/refute that evidence.
4. As of this posting - I am not yet aware that the Prosecutor has the evidence to pursue a charge against Zimmerman. Perhaps that will change. |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 07/20/2025 02:57:13 PM EDT.
