Birth control rant - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

03/10/2012 01:27:11 PM · #826

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Nullix:
I'm not talking about saving our families, country, resources or crime. With our natural bodies, how is contraception considered health care?

It *IS* about saving our families, country, resources, and crime. Why is this so hard to grasp?????

Being opposed to birth control in this world today is quite simply irresponsible.

Not only is it irresponsible, it is the exact opposite of some a the things I always thought the Republican party wanted, that is a smaller, fiscally conservative government (fewer people on welfare) and government out of our private lives (think gun ownership here). And here, with this intrusive position on BC, there would be an increase in the number of people on welfare through TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families - TANF is a grant given to each state to run their own welfare program) with more children being born into poverty. It would be far more fiscally conservative to pay for BC than support more people on welfare.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/10/2012 01:52:05 PM · #827

Originally posted by Nullix:

...Is giving birth so unnatural that we have to take a pill or mutilate our bodies to prevent this natural act?

I see you can read... it's your level of comprehension that has me baffled.

I suggested earlier that you re-read some of the previous posts, but I shall assume you either chose not to or that the meaning of their contents escapes you.

Ray

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

03/10/2012 01:52:47 PM · #828

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

03/10/2012 04:19:37 PM · #829

Next week's "Doonesbury" abortion comic strip pulled by several newspapers.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

03/10/2012 05:24:49 PM · #830

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Nullix:

...Is giving birth so unnatural that we have to take a pill or mutilate our bodies to prevent this natural act?

I see you can read... it's your level of comprehension that has me baffled.

I suggested earlier that you re-read some of the previous posts, but I shall assume you either chose not to or that the meaning of their contents escapes you.

Ray

Let's try this one:

...is having sex so unnatural that we have to create doctrine and sin to prevent this natural act?

...is having sex so unnatural that it's only acceptable for the sole purpose of procreation?

...is having sex so unnatural that we have awful pejorative words for people (let's be honest here, mostly women) who have "too much" of it?

... is sex so unnatural we have ever ebbing and flowing limits and taboos and what body parts can be seen and not seen?

I could go on but I'll leave it at this:

Is having babies SO natural that we should be doing it all the time, willy-nilly of the consequences and societal/environmental cost? If you look at the history of man, that simply isn't the case, even long before there was BC pills or condoms, there were other methods of birth control.

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

03/10/2012 07:01:50 PM · #831

Originally posted by Nullix:

With our natural bodies, how is contraception considered health care?

Is giving birth so unnatural that we have to take a pill or mutilate our bodies to prevent this natural act?

Human sexuality is natural.

The desire to control one's destiny is natural, which for many people means controlling whether and when they have children.

You're not going to get very far with the natural/unnatural argument.

03/10/2012 07:16:09 PM · #832

Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:

Originally posted by Nullix:
With our natural bodies, how is contraception considered health care?

Is giving birth so unnatural that we have to take a pill or mutilate our bodies to prevent this natural act?

Human sexuality is natural.

The desire to control one's destiny is natural, which for many people means controlling whether and when they have children.

You're not going to get very far with the natural/unnatural argument.

None of the arguments get anywhere because being against birth control makes no sense. Pills, condoms, operations, pulling out, abstinence, homosexuality, menopause, sterility, masturbation; they are all forms of "birth control" per say. States or methods of having sex (or lack thereof) that lead to no baby being born of our loins. ;) Only the Catholics seem to prefer some (well really just the one: abstinence) over others without any logical reason. The assertion that sex must be for procreation is so asinine it that it blows my mind people still even discuss it legitimately.

See it's not about babies. It's about sex.

Message edited by author 2012-03-10 19:20:24.

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/12/2012 10:05:53 AM · #833

Originally posted by escapetooz:

If you look at the history of man, that simply isn't the case, even long before there was BC pills or condoms, there were other methods of birth control.

Are you aware that the Hippocratic Oath (written by Hippocrates in) contains the phrase:

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

Yes, there were other methods of birth control and even health care workers took an oath against abortion.

Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8D

03/12/2012 11:40:06 AM · #834

Originally posted by Nullix:

Considering that particular version was an oath to Apollo, it's pretty safe to say that even you don't consider it entirely valid.

David Ey

Nikon D80

03/12/2012 12:12:42 PM · #835

They still use that oath today pal.

CJinCA

Canon EOS-7D

03/12/2012 12:15:31 PM · #836

Originally posted by Nullix:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
If you look at the history of man, that simply isn't the case, even long before there was BC pills or condoms, there were other methods of birth control.

Are you aware that the Hippocratic Oath (written by Hippocrates in) contains the phrase:

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

Yes, there were other methods of birth control and even health care workers took an oath against abortion.

You do know that was an oath to Apollo and other Greek gods and goddesses don't you? Should doctors be giving oaths to those pagan gods? The oath has been changed over the years and that is NOT the oath doctors take today.

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

03/12/2012 12:23:15 PM · #837

Originally posted by CJinCA:

Originally posted by Nullix:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
If you look at the history of man, that simply isn't the case, even long before there was BC pills or condoms, there were other methods of birth control.

Are you aware that the Hippocratic Oath (written by Hippocrates in) contains the phrase:

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

Yes, there were other methods of birth control and even health care workers took an oath against abortion.

You do know that was an oath to Apollo and other Greek gods and goddesses don't you? Should doctors be giving oaths to those pagan gods? The oath has been changed over the years and that is NOT the oath doctors take today.

Obviously, people were having abortions even then, or the doctors of that time wouldn't have been forced to take an oath to their gods. I'm sure people with enough money didn't have any trouble obtaining what they wanted. And the thing is, even if abortion were ever outlawed in this country, people with money would still get them safely. It would only be the poor in the back ally with the coat hanger. If some multimillionaire's 14 year old daughter was raped and became pregnant, I can guarantee he'd be flying her off to where ever it was safe.

Message edited by author 2012-03-12 12:23:56.

03/12/2012 12:48:37 PM · #838

Originally posted by David Ey:

They still use that oath today pal.

Only if by "today" you mean the Holocene Epoch. The modern Hippocratic Oath contains no reference to Apollo... or abortion.

03/12/2012 03:10:09 PM · #839

Originally posted by Nullix:

Grasping at straws here. I wasn't even making a case for abortion so I don't know what you are going on about.

03/12/2012 03:30:14 PM · #840

PS: What happened to "Let food be thy medicine?"

Folks outraged about birth control meanwhile all of our food is full of toxins and only sad remnants of the nutrients it used to have.

It always alarms me how up in arms people get over sexual matters but something so important as food gets swept under the rug (or more alarmingly, people fight to KEEP the terrible, harmful food).

Message edited by author 2012-03-12 15:32:10.

03/12/2012 03:39:23 PM · #841

Originally posted by escapetooz:

It always alarms me how up in arms people get over sexual matters but something so important as food gets swept under the rug (or more alarmingly, people fight to KEEP the terrible, harmful food).

Mmphff... That's crazy talk!

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/12/2012 09:37:50 PM · #842

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Grasping at straws here. I wasn't even making a case for abortion so I don't know what you are going on about.

I thought I've already shown birth control is linked to abortions. That's the big problem.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

03/12/2012 10:38:01 PM · #843

Originally posted by escapetooz:

Grasping at straws here. I wasn't even making a case for abortion so I don't know what you are going on about.

Originally posted by Nullix:

I thought I've already shown birth control is linked to abortions. That's the big problem.

You are so obtuse it's scary....

PLEASE explain that bizarre concept.

CJinCA

Canon EOS-7D

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

03/12/2012 11:05:20 PM · #844

Forget it Jeb. Mr Null has decided for all of us that since in a small number of instances, a fertilized egg may have been expelled by some birth control method and that constitutes an abortion, and therefore NO WOMAN should use birth control as she is performing an abortion on herself.

I read some interesting statistics on this statistical site

â�¢ Virtually all women (more than 99%) aged 15â��44 who have ever had sexual intercourse have used at least one contraceptive method.[2]

â�¢ Overall, 62% of the 62 million women aged 15â��44 are currently using a method.[2]

We woman are all doomed I guess - to prison or.....worse! :-)

I wonder if the men who "spill their seed" are doomed too? :-)

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

03/13/2012 01:03:32 AM · #845

Originally posted by CJinCA:

Not that I disagree with you on birth control, but citing statistics from an institute so closely tied to Planned Parenthood is probably not going to hold much sway with someone who is pro-life. Just saying.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

03/13/2012 01:32:40 AM · #846

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by escapetooz:
Grasping at straws here. I wasn't even making a case for abortion so I don't know what you are going on about.

Originally posted by Nullix:
I thought I've already shown birth control is linked to abortions. That's the big problem.

You are so obtuse it's scary....

PLEASE explain that bizarre concept.

He's referring to the 2% chance the egg is fertilized. I don't even have the energy to look up other things that could cause miscarriages such as drinking if you don't know your pregnant, car accidents, injury, natural causes, etc, that probably account for at least 2% of pregnancies being miscarried. It's just so hairsplitting.

Obtuse is right.

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/13/2012 01:54:25 AM · #847

Originally posted by yanko:

citing statistics from an institute so closely tied to Planned Parenthood is probably not going to hold much sway with someone who is pro-life.

Could you imagine any institute that collect statistics in this area of study that would be accepted by the "pro-life" community? Science is based on the examination of provable data, faith is held in the absence of proof.

Science is science, no matter who says it, the facts are supposed to be transparent, provable and reproducible. You can't deny a fact based on who says it. If you are going to deny certain facts because you don't like the philosophy the researchers have, you are throwing the scientific method out the window.

If our nation's scientific decisions are based faith, we must admit we wish to be a theocracy.

03/13/2012 02:20:29 AM · #848

Originally posted by BrennanOB:

Originally posted by yanko:
citing statistics from an institute so closely tied to Planned Parenthood is probably not going to hold much sway with someone who is pro-life.

Could you imagine any institute that collect statistics in this area of study that would be accepted by the "pro-life" community? Science is based on the examination of provable data, faith is held in the absence of proof.

Science is science, no matter who says it, the facts are supposed to be transparent, provable and reproducible. You can't deny a fact based on who says it. If you are going to deny certain facts because you don't like the philosophy the researchers have, you are throwing the scientific method out the window.

If our nation's scientific decisions are based faith, we must admit we wish to be a theocracy.

I see what you're saying but I think you give scientists too much credit. Let's not forget biases. Science is not infallible, even more so when it comes to social sciences. You can manipulate a questions to get a certain answer, as the same question a different way, get different answers. Supposed to be transparent, but generally not necessarily. And then there is what journals will publish what. If a study comes in that doesn't fit the current paradigm, it can be rejected even if it's scientifically sound.

But those things can be debated in scientific terms. The problem comes when they are disregarded on no basis, with "faith". Which I think is probably what you meant.

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/13/2012 10:04:40 AM · #849

Originally posted by CJinCA:

You are more than welcome to use birth control. Don't expect me to pay for it.

There are the uncounted number of chemical abortions that happen because of the birth control pill. There are also the counted number of abortions that occur when birth control doesn't work.

Facts about Induced Abortion in the US

Originally posted by Guttmacher:

54% of women who have abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant.

In the US, there are between 1 and 1.5 million abortions. That's 540,000 abortions a year because of birth control.

If birth control actually worked, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but birth control doesn't work and leads to abortions.