Are gay rights, including gay marriage, evolving?

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

03/27/2012 01:44:54 AM · #5626

Hey you guys know NOM, right? The National Organization for Marriage that claims to speak for conservative America and people of faith? Looks like the courts released a bunch of the records in their donor disclosure case, and this, of course, is their agenda:

â��The strategic goal of this project is to drive a wedge between gays and blacksâ��two key Democratic constituencies. Find, equip, energize and connect African American spokespeople for marriage, develop a media campaign around their objections to gay marriage as a civil right; provoke the gay marriage base into responding by denouncing these spokesmen and women as bigotsâ�¦â��

Race baiting. Gay baiting. Well played.

"The Latino vote in America is a key swing vote, and will be so even more so in the future, both because of demographic growth and inherent uncertainty: Will the process of assimilation to the dominant Anglo culture lead Hispanics to abandon traditional family values? We must interrupt this process of assimilation by making support for marriage a key badge of Latino identity - a symbol of resistance to inappropriate assimilation."

More race politics! They really can't get enough of the stuff.

//www.scribd.com/nomexposed/d/86834855-20100716-Doc-128b-NOM-Depo-Exhibit-2-NOM-Depo-Exhibit-12-Nat-l-Strategy-for-Winning-12-15-09

This is the vaunted morality and compassion of the opponents of equal rights for gays. I see it again and again, and time it's been laid exquisitely bare. Fortunately, it's a terrible strategy run by incompetents, but still... perhaps we should be rethinking the impact that people like me have on this country (and attempting to control our lives in a terribly un-American fashion IMO), and start thinking about the Maggie Gallaghers of this world a little more, and maybe making sure they don't hose everything for the rest of us.

Because, remember... they're just about being for marriage, not against people. Right? That's what they always say, just like most conservatives?

Judith Polakoff

Nikon D7000

03/27/2012 10:08:27 PM · #5627

They truly are loathsome creatures...

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/29/2012 12:34:32 PM · #5628

Man, with the lack of outrage from the right, a person might be lead to think that this sort of behavior is acceptable, perhaps even condoned by conservatives.

I mean, you'd think at least one of the habitual equality opponents here would have tried to distance themselves from this... evil... with yet another weak rationalization, but we haven't seen a thing!

So much for the reasonable middle?

Message edited by author 2012-03-29 12:34:55.

frisca

Nikon D70

03/29/2012 02:37:28 PM · #5629

Originally posted by Mousie:

Nobody pays attention to the reasonable middle. Romney might have been a "middle" sort of conservative at one point, but no one would have noticed him if he continued to be so.

03/29/2012 04:15:05 PM · #5630

It's hard to pay attention when all I hear is crickets, or even justifications.

scalvert

03/29/2012 04:36:29 PM · #5631

Originally posted by Mousie:

I mean, you'd think at least one of the habitual equality opponents here would have tried to distance themselves from this... evil... with yet another weak rationalization, but we haven't seen a thing!

So much for the reasonable middle?

You won't get the response you seek here because those people are not the reasonable middle, but the lunatic fringe.

03/29/2012 08:16:56 PM · #5632

Now now... I'm mainly referring to the way that conservatives in general never seem to denounce the shameful actions of those who would speak for them. At best they'll muster a variation of the No True Scotsman fallacy.

This is just an example of a larger pattern. Plenty to say when they want to control my life, nothing to say when the true rationales underpinning their thought leaders' and culture's actions are exposed.

No need to get personal. ;)

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/31/2012 06:18:03 PM · #5633

Originally posted by Mousie:

This is just an example of a larger pattern. Plenty to say when they want to control my life, nothing to say when the true rationales underpinning their thought leaders' and culture's actions are exposed.

Not my thought leaders.

All the stuff I follow is in the open.

Humanae Vitae

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

03/31/2012 09:09:32 PM · #5634

Originally posted by Nullix:

Originally posted by Mousie:
This is just an example of a larger pattern. Plenty to say when they want to control my life, nothing to say when the true rationales underpinning their thought leaders' and culture's actions are exposed.

Not my thought leaders.

All the stuff I follow is in the open.

Humanae Vitae

...and of course the majority of Catholics adhere to these directives right?

Ray

04/01/2012 11:22:47 AM · #5635

How surprising, someone conservative posts a defense of their beliefs, not a refutation of the people who'd speak for them.

How No True Scotsmany. It's just a bit surprising to see it so quickly/plainly after I predicted it.

No matter how many times the animus driving these beliefs is pointed out, we'll hear how someone's own beliefs say the same thing, but are somehow more legitimate because their source is not the discredited one. Despite both beliefs suggesting I'm going to burn in hellfire for eternity because I love my husband. That I'm less of a human, and than my beliefs don't matter because they're wrong.

Can't we just dispense with this superstition already?

04/01/2012 11:34:02 AM · #5636

People who've been reading this discussion for a long time, and it's been going for a long time, may have noticed a change in my demeanor over the course of the debate. I'm markedly more bitter these days... through choices I've made I've placed myself in a position that the effects of discrimination are more apparent.

I've had to fight with my insurance AND Eric's insurance to make sure we're listed as spouses... since we ARE spouses, and I'm not letting some company screw me out of healthcare because they made us put 'domestic partner' on a form when it's NOT TRUE. I've had to hire a tax guy to help us negotiate filing state and federal forms in a way we won't get audited because I've given my husband money for bills that would otherwise be a gift between two unrelated people. I'm pissed off because we have a crop of presidential candidates vying to see who can pander to the right harder... particularly with Santorum in the mix. A presidential candidate who's platform is about devaluing who I am as a person.

Over the last decade I've watched the right attack gay rights, women's rights, science, and the very idea of intellectualism... and it freaks me out to my core.

CUT THE CRAP. Let me live my life as I see fit. This is America, isn't it?

Edit:

But yeah, I apologize for my tone. That sentiment got lost as I started explaining my point. Unfortunately, I don't see things changing, because grouchy is who pretty much what I am these days. Thanks, conservatives. Uplifting, positive stories and being a good example aren't my forte anymore.

Message edited by author 2012-04-01 11:38:34.

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

04/17/2012 12:08:57 AM · #5637

Christian group says sorry at gay pride

Something we should do more often.

04/18/2012 09:38:16 PM · #5638

This.

This is exactly what I hope for. People of faith leading by example, acting as counterpoint to the vitriol spewed by those who would speak for them. What an incredibly heartwarming article.

I must admit, I was discomfited by the rather shocking photo of the gay man in his underwear, but they addressed that concern specifically, and I think their point is made stronger because of it. Tristan, after all, is (I hope!) not running through the streets in his underwear the rest of the year, and as much as I find the image unsettling, if I can avoid judging a co-ed at spring break for her topless shenanigans, others should be able to do the same for Tristan.

Republicans: Wired for homophobia

05/06/2012 08:56:34 PM · #5639

05/08/2012 11:43:42 AM · #5640

Today is the day North Carolina votes on Amendment 1, which will outlaw any legal recognition of domestic relationships apart from married straight couples. Even civil unions will be made illegal.

If you need a reason to vote no, assuming you live there:

It Could Happen To You

This is the heartbreaking story of a gay man and his committed partner of 6 years, and how his life is torn apart by bigotry after his partner dies in an accident shooting photographs with a model on a roof. Look at the love they showed for each other, look at their faces. Witness what prejudice does to humanity.

His mistake? Waiting until marriage is made legal, instead of contacting a lawyer to draw up documents to protect themselves.

The result? His partner's family steals his loved one away from him, threatens him, denies access to the funeral, and effectively erases him from existence, and the government sits idly by, because they were 'just roommates'.

When will we end this?

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

05/09/2012 05:02:16 PM · #5641

Wow, not that I'm surprised.

President Obama Affirms His Support for Same Sex Marriage

Message edited by author 2012-05-09 17:02:40.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

05/09/2012 05:20:28 PM · #5642

Originally posted by Mousie:

That's just horrible :-(

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

05/09/2012 06:10:43 PM · #5643

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Mousie:
Today is the day North Carolina votes on Amendment 1, which will outlaw any legal recognition of domestic relationships apart from married straight couples. Even civil unions will be made illegal.

If you need a reason to vote no, assuming you live there:

It Could Happen To You

That's just horrible :-(

Truly is sad. Makes one wonder why people are so resistant to something that has absolutely no impact on their lifestyles at all.

Ray

frisca

Nikon D70

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

05/09/2012 06:29:23 PM · #5644

When I watched the video of Shane and Tom's story, I sat in tears at my computer. What they had was pure love -- you can see it in the pain on Shane's face as he tries to deal with the profound loss and the bigotry and injustice he was faced with after Tom's death. :(

It's love, pure and simple and it should be legally recognized and as socially uncontroversial as the love the majority of relationships enjoy.

scalvert

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

05/09/2012 09:29:26 PM · #5645

Originally posted by Mousie:

Today is the day North Carolina votes on Amendment 1, which will outlaw any legal recognition of domestic relationships apart from married straight couples. Even civil unions will be made illegal.

North Carolina voters just proclaimed their bigotry to the world in loud, unmistakable terms. The vote was not about redefining marriage (gay marriage was already illegalâ�� this was specifically intended to eliminate even civil unions and prevent judges from declaring the act unconstitutional). It was not about keeping government out of a religious institution (marriage licenses are issued by the state, and no church involvement is necessary). It was not protecting marriage for the sake of procreation and families (elderly, sterile and abusive couples can be married without issue). It was not about protecting traditional marriage from harm (you wouldn't even know if a man on the street were married to another man, much less be affected by it). This was about nothing more or less than maintaining the ability to discriminate against a minority group. As proof, note that if one partner had a sex change, the same couple could be legally married under this law even though there is no practical difference. It's very difficult to claim religion as a moral positive when it's used as justification for such undisguised hatred against fellow human beings. The last time North Carolina voted on a constitutional amendment regarding marriage was in 1875... when they banned interracial marriage. :-/

Kelli

Canon EOS-D60

05/09/2012 09:32:47 PM · #5646

//www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/steps-to-help-you-evolve-your-views-on-gay-marriag

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

05/09/2012 10:10:55 PM · #5647

The last time North Carolina amended their constitution on the subject of marriage, in 1875, they made interracial marriage unconstitutional. That lasted until 1951... Sigh...

Message edited by author 2012-05-09 22:11:16.

05/10/2012 11:13:50 AM · #5648

Depressing, isn't it?

The silver lining:

Unlike most states that have banned gay marriage, NC's debate shed any pretense of 'merely protecting the definition of a word' and 'respecting the commitments of gay couples in matters of civil law'. This campaign has been one of the most bigoted, vitriolic, and bald-faced attacks on my rights as a citizen we have ever seen. That, paired with the removal of exisiting rights from gay couples (which was a major factor in Prop 8 being ruled unconstitutional), and straight couples (good luck to you, unmarried families with kids sharing health coverage, and people in abusive domestic relationships, you'll need it!) I expect this to go to the courts rapidly, where unbridled animus will be pitifully easy to demonstrate.

The right has overplayed their hand. Anyone who's been following my recent links should be able to see this, easily.

When you have preachers involved with the campaign calling for the outright criminalization of homosexuality, literally saying that someone like me should be prosecuted and thrown in jail, and that Americans have become too 'dumb' to realize this... the fear and hate is simple to identify. I honestly hope this gets to the Supreme Court faster than Prop 8. It's a much more solid case. Why wait for them to say something outrageous in a court of law to try to prove something non-factual, when they've already been spewing it on the airwaves and online?

So let's talk about religion a bit.

This is a faith-based effort to deny homosexuals rights. We constantly hear how gay rights are antithetical to the rights of the religious. We see churches actively working to enshrine their beliefs into law.

Where is the church that's standing up for my rights? Where is the church flipping the equation, and demanding their religious freedom be respected, the freedom to marry people based on the tenants of their own faith, including homosexuals? There are numerous moderate churches with no prohibitions against homosexuality, that ordain gays, and perform the ceremonies. Where's the outrage that their religious freedoms have been taken away?

This is not a Christian nation. There isn't even one flavor of Christianity. This is a pluralistic nation, but apparently, some religions are favored and given special dispensation to enforce their will over the others, using the law as a weapon. This sounds a lot like establishment to me... wholly unAmerican.

Where are the moderates standing up against the extremists? If religion is such a force for good, why is it seemingly employed for anything but, in the realm of politics?

When are you going to get off your asses and demand than not only I get treated as an equal citizen, but that YOU do?

Message edited by author 2012-05-10 12:51:31.

scalvert

05/10/2012 12:13:03 PM · #5649

Originally posted by Mousie:

We see churches actively working to enshrine their briefs into law.

Dang, I totally missed the undergarment bill. Fruit of the Loons, I presume?