| Author | Thread |
|
|
04/14/2004 08:28:12 PM · #51 |
I have actually shot with the D2h and owned a 1D from the time they were released until a couple of months ago. The image quality is comparable (both are excellent and can be made to look almost identical with a little PS work). In my hands the D2h is a much more usable camera. I am not knocking the 1D as I absolutely loved mine and am very excited about getting my 1D2 as soon as they start shipping but the Nikon operates VERY well. Sure you can nit-pick the image quality of the D2h but I can tell you first hand that the 1D suffers from moire issues, lots of shadow noise and is pretty poor for long exposures. Even with those issues I was able to get tons of shots with my 1D that I really love. So with all that in mind and most importantly from my personal first hand experience the D2h is clearly a better body than the 1D. Anyway, what’s the point in nit-picking two absolutely excellent cameras?
Greg
|
|
|
|
04/14/2004 08:44:54 PM · #52 |
I'm going to come at this fom a slightly different angle. Knowing that canon will very likely announce a replacement for the 10D later this year, and being of the opinion that overall the Canon lens system has some nice advantages and looks to be arguably the best bet for the long haul...
...I suggest that buying the 300D NOW (minimize cost), and upgrading to the 10D replacement when it is available might be a good course. Make sense??
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 03:45:55 AM · #53 |
Thanks folks, this is just the kind of input I was hoping for.
Firstly, I had already looked at the reviews of all three cameras side by side on the dpreview site before posting this thread.
Secondly, am agreed that the lens system is a big deal (my ownership of the Minolta lenses is why I was so reluctant to switch in the first place).
Thirdly, it is very unlikely we would ever spend thousands on a lens - we'd think very hard before spending a grand!
PS Yes I know this means we'll have less time to be familiar with the camera before going but I'll still be taking my smaller film SLR and a few films and we'll just have to do our best.
I doubt we'll also take the Dimage 7i to be honest.
We have a weight restriction on luggage of 12 kg each plus a small hand luggage item. I'm already pushing the definition of small hand luggage by taking my new lowepro rucksack that weighs about 7kg on it's own with two cameras in it - the new DSLR will live where the second, heavier, film SLR lived.
:o)
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 04:03:15 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by EddyG:
Every retail EF Canon lens will work on any of these cameras. |
Eddy, you're being a bit sneaky with that comparison there. Yes, Nikon have their DX lenses that only fit their digital backs, but the D70 will happily accept their standard D lenses too. Yes, the kit lens is a DX lens, but at the same time the kit lens with the 300D is an EF-S (?) lens that will ONLY fit the 300D.
Secondary lens is likely to be a FF-capable Sigma or suchlike, so throwing the fact that Nikon happen to produce small-frame lenses for their digital cameras is not overly important IMHO.
While I take on board the lens mount argument; I don't see Nikon OR Canon suddenly giving up making cameras in the near future and even if they did, other lens manufacturers are likely to continue to produce Nikon AND Canon mount lenses for a long time to come. Once we've spent the money on this, I don't see us replacing it with a FF digital back soon (mainly because they are frighteningly expensive!) and nor do I see us acquiring thousands of pounds worth of glass.
It's ironic that I think Kavey and I are both moving towards opposite conclusions - my gut is pushing me toward the Nikon because I think it's a marginally better camera. The thrust of a lot of arguments against it seem to be "well it's not Canon" and "well it's not a Canon lens mount" rather than being less capable (which it isn't - it seems to beat the Canon on a number of feature points) or producing inferiors pictures (from what I've seen the image quality is VERY similar).
Gina, on the Minolta front - the Minolta website has some information on their offering. It's the same system as on the A1, apparently. |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 04:56:56 AM · #55 |
| All comparisons aside , I must add the time/availability factor to this discussion . Are you going to be able to procure the D70 in time for your trip ? I've been qouted 5-7 days & seen postings of even 10-14 days wait . Not an easy choice either way , good luck again . |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 05:37:44 AM · #56 |
You might also consider picking up a used D60, where you'll get more noise at ISO 800/1000 (it won't go to 1600/3200 like the 10D) and only 3 AF points (7 on the 10D). Otherwise, it's a fantastic camera.
At this price range, Nikon and Canon camera bodies suck large from a usability standpoint (they must think people love navigating menus to fiddle with commonly used features).
If you're going to buy all the glass you need for the DSLR you're getting, could you also buy (or borrow) a film body from the same mfgr and carry less total glass with you?
If you're not going to have reliable access to electricity every day, going (so completely) digital can be very painful. You might use the LCD more than usual and this is very demanding on your batteries. How many hours of shooting do you anticipate each day? With the LCD on info mode (referenced only infrequently), you might get two full days (8-12 hours per day).
For portable storage, I highly recommend the Tripper. Although you can build your own external battery pack for it, you can get about 5G of transfer per charge. In the field you can keep it on your belt and transfer as you go. You could live with 2 cards like that, but if you're shooting very aggressively (and in RAW mode), you'll still want 3 or 4 anyway. I find one 512 and two 256's are sufficient when using the Tripper in the field.
I don't see how you could possibly go wrong with any of your original three camera choices, although you'd probably outgrow the 300D eventually. |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 06:29:03 AM · #57 |
Nikon has a $500 rebate on the D1X, and Canon Capture 4 software ($150) right now. Something to think about.
Not really, but there are lens rebates going on also.
Not to mention tons of of lens rebates
Message edited by author 2004-04-15 06:31:52.
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 06:44:48 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Nikon has a $500 rebate on the D1X, and Canon Capture 4 software ($150) right now. Something to think about.
Not really, but there are lens rebates going on also.
Not to mention tons of of lens rebates |
Rebates are great if you live in the States, unfortunately that is usually the only place they apply. |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 07:37:30 AM · #59 |
Originally posted by ganders:
It's ironic that I think Kavey and I are both moving towards opposite conclusions |
Kavey isn't moving towards any conclusions - she is dithering and going around in circles...
:o)
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 07:54:54 AM · #60 |
Just to contribute to the information overload .
//www.image-resource.com has now also posted a review of the D70.
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 07:56:00 AM · #61 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by ganders:
It's ironic that I think Kavey and I are both moving towards opposite conclusions |
Kavey isn't moving towards any conclusions - she is dithering and going around in circles...
:o) |
I always find it's good to stick to doing what you do best too :P |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 07:57:10 AM · #62 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by ganders:
It's ironic that I think Kavey and I are both moving towards opposite conclusions |
Kavey isn't moving towards any conclusions - she is dithering and going around in circles...
:o) |
Easy solution... just get both!
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 08:23:45 AM · #63 |
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
At this price range, Nikon and Canon camera bodies suck large from a usability standpoint (they must think people love navigating menus to fiddle with commonly used features). |
Not to disagree with the various well made points that you had, but I'm curious - what commonly used features do you find that you are navigating the menus a lot for ?
I think the only one that I reliably have to dip in to the menus to change is mirror lockup, and that's usually only a couple of presses (because its the only thing I really change, and it always ends up right under the menu option)
I guess I use the format command occasionally, but it isn't very hidden either.
Everything else is on the camera body, and doesn't need the menus at all, so I'm curious - maybe 2nd curtain flash sync would be another thing I'd go searching for in the custom functions, but on a shot by shot basis, I'm hardly ever using the screen or menus.
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 09:23:14 AM · #64 |
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
At this price range, Nikon and Canon camera bodies suck large from a usability standpoint (they must think people love navigating menus to fiddle with commonly used features). |
the only thing i find myself fiddling for in the menus is switching between AF-S and AF-C focus modes. otherwise, once i got it set up, i never get in there.
you can even format a card with a combination of buttons pressed....
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 10:32:32 AM · #65 |
Just to add to the mud...:)
I'm upgrading to the D70 for a couple of reasons. First, I own about $1500 in Nikon glass. That alone is pushing me towards the Nikon. Personally, I liked the hand feel of the Nikon better. The weight distribution worked best for me. I have tendonitis in my right wrist, so that was a critical factor.
With *any* DSLR you are going to have some issues. Every review of the EOS 300 I see says that the camera is good, but not remarkable. The Rebal is about value for the dollar and getting you into a digital SLR. Nikon is better in some areas (including features) due to being the second dSLR in this price range on the market.
Read the forums on dpreview carefully for the models you are looking at. Understand the strengths and weaknesses of all three cameras. Right now, the D70 is new, so you will not have as many users on DPC who have that system.
For me, the D70 is the first digital camera I could afford that truly feels like a film SLR. Again, this is personal opinion. The models I've tested out respond like I expect a film camera to respond.
The last thing goes back to lenses. I switched from Canon to Nikon back in the early 90s because I believed Nikon made superior quality glass. I still believe that. I've been very happy with every Nikor lens I've had, and I can't say that about some other lenses. In my opinion, Nikon still makes bar none, the very best glass you can get.
Again, this is all personal opinion. Go out and test the models you are looking at. You may fall in love with the feel of the digital rebel. Who knows. Finding the right camera body is a little like falling in love. You can't really put your finger on it, you just know it when you feel it. :)
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 10:54:44 AM · #66 |
Having gone out at lunchtime and put my hands on both bodies, I know which one I'm in love with... but I'll keep quiet until Kavey's had a chance to do the same.
That way we can end up each loving different cameras and keep the argument up for days :-) |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 11:00:24 AM · #67 |
Originally posted by blemt:
Finding the right camera body is a little like falling in love. You can't really put your finger on it, you just know it when you feel it. :) |
Hey now. I thought that was how you knew you were "The One" (from The Matrix)
hehe
I still say there's not that much difference between them and you two are going to make your decision when you pick them up. Whatever you get, something newer and shinier will be out before too long so get what feels good today and what encourages you to step out the front door (or setup an indoor shoot) and press that shutter release.
Kev
EDIT: Danged parenthesis!
Message edited by author 2004-04-15 11:01:14.
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 11:12:56 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Not to disagree with the various well made points that you had, but I'm curious - what commonly used features do you find that you are navigating the menus a lot for ? |
Mostly it's MLU and format, although now that I think about it, the one-button-implies-two-functions-depending-on-which-dial-you-turn thing bugs me too. I use MLU and format often enough that they aren't necessarily under my thumb every time and the fact that MLU is buried as a Cfn is doubly annoying. Clearly, none of these options is hiding, but they are quite common. For some people mode(size) and iso changes happen frequently enough too. I just prefer the interface my film camera has. It's as though Canon didn't consult their film body department when designing the thing.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Everything else is on the camera body, and doesn't need the menus at all, so I'm curious - maybe 2nd curtain flash sync would be another thing I'd go searching for in the custom functions, but on a shot by shot basis, I'm hardly ever using the screen or menus. |
For the most part, I can say the same, but now I'm not so sure it's because the camera behaves the way I want or I'm behaving the way it wants. :-)
(File under pet peeves, not under major complaints) |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 12:58:27 PM · #69 |
| You can adjust file sizes with the dial on the back without ever entering a menu though... |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 12:59:22 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
For some people mode(size) and iso changes happen frequently enough too. I just prefer the interface my film camera has. It's as though Canon didn't consult their film body department when designing the thing.
|
The only one of those I guess I change often is ISO - but I've never used the menus to do it - its on the rear command dial (though I guess that's a custom function to enable that). But if you don't like the push a button and twirl a dial control then that'd probably bug you too.
All I know about it is that the D60 interface is a whole lot better than the one on the film rebel - press-hold+twirl dials there for some features.
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
For the most part, I can say the same, but now I'm not so sure it's because the camera behaves the way I want or I'm behaving the way it wants. :-) |
I find the fact that you can customise quite a bit of what all the buttons do can help quite a bit, but it isn't always obvious without some poking to find them. (E.g., enable the rear dial to press and change ISO) Means you have aperture up top, shutter speed on the big dial, or press the center button and change ISO. For most shooting, you can avoid being in the menus at all (though I agree about MLU) I tend not to be formating stuff when I'm shooting anyway I guess. I try to do that before I start.
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 01:53:40 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
The only one of those I guess I change often is ISO - but I've never used the menus to do it - its on the rear command dial (though I guess that's a custom function to enable that). |
No, that's how I have my command dial set too (ISO change). I just think they went over the top by taking a single button AF/WB and having one dial change AF and the other change WB. That's just dumb. The fev/metering button is marginally better in that ev changes always work with the rear dial.
Originally posted by Gordon:
I tend not to be formating stuff when I'm shooting anyway I guess. I try to do that before I start. |
Well, when I'm shooting aggressively, and even with a handful of CF cards, I like to have my tripper set to copy on a single button push. When I get a used card back in the camera, I have to format it first. Mind you, in those cases, I'm not futzing with MLU anyway, so it's relatively easy. |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 01:54:24 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by sn4psh07:
You can adjust file sizes with the dial on the back without ever entering a menu though... |
And then you change ISO by .... |
|
|
|
04/15/2004 02:18:40 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
Originally posted by sn4psh07:
You can adjust file sizes with the dial on the back without ever entering a menu though... |
And then you change ISO by .... |
I think it got shuffled around a bit on the 10D - which has the double button/ front and back rotation thing under the Drive select or something so drive is a split function button, for DRIVE and ISO.
I'd rather just be able to tell it what to do (though the joke about someone shouting 'format' 'yes' at the demo of voice control sofware springs back to mind)
Alternatively 'configuration sets' would be good - more config control for particular situations - like you mentioned, there are functions that are mostly mutually exclusive - you don't want mirror lockup when you are shooting sports typically, nor do you want AF servo for macro work.
I'd like to be able to pick what I was doing and get a different control setup that way too - I think some of the more expensive SLRs give you more control over that.
Message edited by author 2004-04-15 14:20:26.
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 02:18:44 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by blemt:
Just to add to the mud...:) For me, the D70 is the first digital camera I could afford that truly feels like a film SLR. Again, this is personal opinion. The models I've tested out respond like I expect a film camera to respond. |
I have to agree here. This is what I missed most on the 4300. The lack of Film SLR "feel". The D70 does very much feel like my film bodies. Again, it is what I am used to.
Comfort. Plain and simple comfort. What "feels" best.
Good luck. Happy shooting. May the light always be right for the shot you want.
Flash
|
|
|
|
04/15/2004 02:29:19 PM · #75 |
Nikon has a far better wide angle selection than Canon does for digital specific applications.
Originally posted by dadas115:
I guess the partial metering thing being “enough” is a really personal thing. I have never found it to be enough for those situations when I want a spot meter. The 1D and 1Ds both do have a spot meter and that is one of the things I really miss from my 1D. As far as a lens system is concerned, both Nikon and Canon have a pretty full range of lenses so it isn’t that big of an issue either. Both companies make awesome lenses but there are a few lenses in each system that aren’t exactly duplicated in the other. These are very specialized lenses. So unless you want something like a 200mm f/1.8 or a 200-400 f/4 the two systems are pretty comparable. Another example is the AF-S Nikkor 600mm f/4 ED-IF II vs the EF 600mm f/4L IS. Some people complain that Nikon does not yet have long tele-primes with VR. The nikkor comes in either black or white finish and weighs 10.7lb while the Canon is white finish only and weighs 11.8lb. IMO it’s again pretty much a wash.
Greg |
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 09/11/2025 12:01:30 AM EDT.
