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01/28/2012 02:48:12 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
But seriously, doesn't that translate into: I think Paul made a mistake in his choice?
Why do we leave a comment suggesting a different way of doing something, unless we really believe that the photographer made the wrong choice? (or that there were better choices to be made.) |
Absolutely not. It means you disagree with the photographer's choices. YOU may be wrong. ;) I make choices that I like, and many people dislike these choices. I'm not wrong, and they are not wrong in disliking the image. It's a matter of keeping an open mind, and finding a way to enjoy the image as presented. This may not be possible for any given viewer. Critiquing images is a wonderful process, and if you can not connect with the image, there is no harm in stating why this is true.
Originally posted by vawendy:
It's rare that I leave a critical comment anymore -- I usually just comment on what I like. Because I do think it's presumptuous to assume that the photographer doesn't know what they're doing. I think it's sad, though. Because I received a couple of negative comments that really turned around my processing. |
True, but this does not devalue an honest critique, which I believe does not include telling the photographer they made the wrong choice.
eta: a few missing words
Message edited by author 2012-01-28 14:49:05. |
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01/28/2012 03:04:14 PM · #27 |
As a certain fuzzy-haired painter on public television was wont to say, we don't make mistakes only happy accidents. 8)
To say somebody has made a mistake is to say that there is a correct way to do it. When in fact there is not. There is only opinion. There is no escaping subjectivity. This is what I believe. And if you believe otherwise we would probably word our feedback on the same photo in different ways even if we don't like it for the same reason.
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01/28/2012 03:20:05 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by vawendy:
But seriously, doesn't that translate into: I think Paul made a mistake in his choice?
Why do we leave a comment suggesting a different way of doing something, unless we really believe that the photographer made the wrong choice? (or that there were better choices to be made.) |
Absolutely not. It means you disagree with the photographer's choices. YOU may be wrong. ;) I make choices that I like, and many people dislike these choices. I'm not wrong, and they are not wrong in disliking the image. It's a matter of keeping an open mind, and finding a way to enjoy the image as presented. This may not be possible for any given viewer. Critiquing images is a wonderful process, and if you can not connect with the image, there is no harm in stating why this is true.
Originally posted by vawendy:
It's rare that I leave a critical comment anymore -- I usually just comment on what I like. Because I do think it's presumptuous to assume that the photographer doesn't know what they're doing. I think it's sad, though. Because I received a couple of negative comments that really turned around my processing. |
True, but this does not devalue an honest critique, which I believe does not include telling the photographer they made the wrong choice.
eta: a few missing words |
Isn't disagreeing with their choice the same thing as thinking they made the wrong choice in your own personal opinion? I don't see a difference. I certainly know that my choice may be wrong -- that's why I say that it's my opinion only in any negative comment I make. But I thought that he might be interested in realizing that his choice might actually bring up negative reactions in people.
Can't I just tell Paul that I think the DOF isn't appealing and doesn't really work in this case? It's an honest critique. But isn't it also obvious, by that statement, that I think he made the wrong choice?
(love you Ben and Paul! Since people take comments in interesting ways, I thought I'd add that, because text is a very impersonal medium. :)
I think this is an interesting conversation. But I think people are getting overly pedantic about how comments should or shouldn't be made. Take them for what they are. Agree or disagree. But realize something didn't work for someone. It's up to you whether you care about it.
Message edited by author 2012-01-28 15:21:25. |
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01/28/2012 06:38:24 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by vawendy:
But seriously, doesn't that translate into: I think Paul made a mistake in his choice?
Why do we leave a comment suggesting a different way of doing something, unless we really believe that the photographer made the wrong choice? (or that there were better choices to be made.) |
Absolutely not. It means you disagree with the photographer's choices. YOU may be wrong. ;) I make choices that I like, and many people dislike these choices. I'm not wrong, and they are not wrong in disliking the image. It's a matter of keeping an open mind, and finding a way to enjoy the image as presented. This may not be possible for any given viewer. Critiquing images is a wonderful process, and if you can not connect with the image, there is no harm in stating why this is true.
Originally posted by vawendy:
It's rare that I leave a critical comment anymore -- I usually just comment on what I like. Because I do think it's presumptuous to assume that the photographer doesn't know what they're doing. I think it's sad, though. Because I received a couple of negative comments that really turned around my processing. |
True, but this does not devalue an honest critique, which I believe does not include telling the photographer they made the wrong choice.
eta: a few missing words |
Isn't disagreeing with their choice the same thing as thinking they made the wrong choice in your own personal opinion? I don't see a difference. I certainly know that my choice may be wrong -- that's why I say that it's my opinion only in any negative comment I make. But I thought that he might be interested in realizing that his choice might actually bring up negative reactions in people.
Can't I just tell Paul that I think the DOF isn't appealing and doesn't really work in this case? It's an honest critique. But isn't it also obvious, by that statement, that I think he made the wrong choice?
(love you Ben and Paul! Since people take comments in interesting ways, I thought I'd add that, because text is a very impersonal medium. :)
I think this is an interesting conversation. But I think people are getting overly pedantic about how comments should or shouldn't be made. Take them for what they are. Agree or disagree. But realize something didn't work for someone. It's up to you whether you care about it. |
+1 |
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01/28/2012 06:49:52 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Isn't disagreeing with their choice the same thing as thinking they made the wrong choice in your own personal opinion? I don't see a difference. |
There's a subtle difference in saying they made the wrong choice insofar as gaining a positive reaction from you, and saying that they made the "wrong choice" objectively and in all circumstances.
At least you are acknowledging that the photographer made a deliberate choice, and not an "error in technique" where they are presumed to have been trying for some other look (sharp focus throughout) and failed.
There's nothing wrong with saying "I prefer pictures with rather than the you have here." |
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01/28/2012 07:01:07 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Isn't disagreeing with their choice the same thing as thinking they made the wrong choice in your own personal opinion? I don't see a difference. |
There's a subtle difference in saying they made the wrong choice insofar as gaining a positive reaction from you, and saying that they made the "wrong choice" objectively and in all circumstances.
At least you are acknowledging that the photographer made a deliberate choice, and not an "error in technique" where they are presumed to have been trying for some other look (sharp focus throughout) and failed.
There's nothing wrong with saying "I prefer pictures with rather than the you have here." |
Different choice <> wrong choice. Preferences are entirely subjective. |
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01/28/2012 08:06:40 PM · #32 |
Sometimes it can be a case of a good image in the wrong challenge?
I'm still upset about this shot, not so much that it became my 3rd worst scoring image but because I 'ruined' what could have been a (probably) better shot if taken wide open and not shot specifically for the challenge. And, I'll guarantee if I'd have entered it into a fs I'd have had as many commenters saying the fence is distracting as I did commenters that didn't see the fence in this this challenge ;)
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01/28/2012 10:00:28 PM · #33 |
Here is a shot where I got the missed focus comment. I did not like getting the comment. I took all the precautions in order to not make that happen. Mirror Lockup was activated, a tripod used, live view focus with 10x zoom used to ensure manual focus was properly achieved. yet when I looked at the comments and reviewed the picture it did appear that I had missed focus. It was due to the harsh light right in the small plane of focus. I found the harsh light washed out the shot leaving very little of my subject in appear in focus. So even though I know what I did and I know the shot was in focus, I had to reluctantly agree with the comments and let go of my own self aggrandizing perceptions.
Message edited by author 2012-01-28 22:02:51. |
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01/29/2012 09:19:18 AM · #34 |
One thing to keep in mind is that it is often suggested to new photographers on this site to comment on photo's as by doing so they become a better photographer. I've seen this said many times. And with that in mind there is bound to be some comments made by people that might not understand or yet know of certain techniques. Which I think is a good thing.
All of us here are photographers, some better than others, but photographers still. Comments made by newer photographers will give us a better understanding of how our photos are viewed by the rest of the world to an extent. People that don't understand DoF and the rule of thirds and all the stuff we read up on and learn to try and make a better picture. I know the way I look at pictures has changed dramatically since I joined this site. |
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01/29/2012 12:44:50 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by deeby:
As a certain fuzzy-haired painter on public television was wont to say, we don't make mistakes only happy accidents. 8) |
We can all probably learn a few things from good ole' Bob. :D
I don't have a problem with critiques or "negative" comments. I don't like comments which aren't explained (too bright vs. it seems too bright to me, because of this I feel that you lose detail in blah blah blah which would have made it a better photo) or assume faulty technique.
Of course. Maybe I'm being too picky. :D But I don't feel I learn much from "don't like the PP" because...why? Why don't you like it? If I know why, then I can reflect upon it and see if an improvement can be made. If I don't know why...then I just don't know exactly where it went wrong for that viewer. |
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01/29/2012 01:12:49 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Cinnabear:
Of course. Maybe I'm being too picky. :D But I don't feel I learn much from "don't like the PP" because...why? Why don't you like it? If I know why, then I can reflect upon it and see if an improvement can be made. If I don't know why...then I just don't know exactly where it went wrong for that viewer. |
Actually, I think "I don't like the PP" is a fairly useful comment. I don't think it's important, actually, to know WHY somebody doesn't like whatever it is I did, just the FACT that they don't like it gives me a finger on the pulse, so to speak. I mean, does it MATTER to me that Voter X dislikes HDR processing because his ex-wife abused it in HER photography?
OK, that's a silly example, but you get my drift: most of the time we just get low votes and have no idea whether people dislike the subject, the composition, the processing, or all three: so any narrowing-down of that range is useful, eh?
R.
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01/29/2012 01:33:53 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by deeby:
As a certain fuzzy-haired painter on public television was wont to say, we don't make mistakes only happy accidents. 8) |
Julia child was turning a cake out of the pan when it dropped, creating a big split as it landed on its rounded top. She stared down at it for a long moment, then looked up and remarked cheerily "Oh well, that's why they invented frosting."
Message edited by author 2012-01-29 13:34:15. |
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01/29/2012 03:38:14 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Actually, I think "I don't like the PP" is a fairly useful comment. I don't think it's important, actually, to know WHY somebody doesn't like whatever it is I did, just the FACT that they don't like it gives me a finger on the pulse, so to speak. I mean, does it MATTER to me that Voter X dislikes HDR processing because his ex-wife abused it in HER photography?
OK, that's a silly example, but you get my drift: most of the time we just get low votes and have no idea whether people dislike the subject, the composition, the processing, or all three: so any narrowing-down of that range is useful, eh?
R. |
Fair enough. And yes, it definitely gives you more of an idea vs. a bunch of 1s. In my ideal world however....haha. :D That's where my post came from. However, we have to do what we must with the tomatoes that are thrown. :) |
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01/29/2012 10:03:45 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Cinnabear:
Of course. Maybe I'm being too picky. :D But I don't feel I learn much from "don't like the PP" because...why? Why don't you like it? If I know why, then I can reflect upon it and see if an improvement can be made. If I don't know why...then I just don't know exactly where it went wrong for that viewer. |
Actually, I think "I don't like the PP" is a fairly useful comment. I don't think it's important, actually, to know WHY somebody doesn't like whatever it is I did, just the FACT that they don't like it gives me a finger on the pulse, so to speak. I mean, does it MATTER to me that Voter X dislikes HDR processing because his ex-wife abused it in HER photography?
OK, that's a silly example, but you get my drift: most of the time we just get low votes and have no idea whether people dislike the subject, the composition, the processing, or all three: so any narrowing-down of that range is useful, eh?
R. |
Actually, I am a person who needs to know the "why" behind everything. You want me to do something, tell me why and I will be able to do it better. Often if there is no explanation as to why I need to do something I will prioritize a task according to my own need. But if someone tells me why, then I can be more accommodating to another persons priorities. Similarly with feelings, if someone tells me why they feel the way they do, then I can have a better understanding and be more compassionate toward the way a person is feeling. I cant explain why I am like that. God made me that way.
So in your example if someone says I don't like HDR because my wife abused it in her photography, I can choose to dismiss the comment as being one persons individual perspective and know that my HDR processing is not defective. If on the other hand someone says I don't like your HDR processing because your subjects have too much halo around them, then I know I have to go back and look at my processing technique to find out how to handle the haloing effects better.
You do make sense in that the person has narrowed down their low vote to be one specific element of the photo, but to me, giving constructive criticism requires not only pointing out what is inadequate in their eyes, but also giving the reason for their judgement. |
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01/30/2012 05:22:43 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by EL-ROI:
...Actually, I am a person who needs to know the "why" behind everything. |
... and sadly, when one does tell some people why, the exchange that follows is on occasion something less than civil.
Ray |
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01/30/2012 01:50:59 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by EL-ROI:
...Actually, I am a person who needs to know the "why" behind everything. |
... and sadly, when one does tell some people why, the exchange that follows is on occasion something less than civil.
Ray |
Lol, There's good and bad in everything!!! |
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01/30/2012 02:00:44 PM · #42 |
So I intentional focused on the pig man as I wanted him the focused sinister element yet many said they wanted that infocus, which I had lots of shots of. I was pleased with the score as it was a very rushed shoe horned entry I was expecting a 4.x
//m.flickr.com/#/photos/cyberprop/sets/72157629004347527/ the others from the video I was making |
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