Are gay rights, including gay marriage, evolving?

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

01/07/2012 06:10:46 PM · #5576

Originally posted by Nullix:

... God is truth, so the facts shouldn't be confusing. Facts should bring us closer to God.

If indeed this was a fact then one would think that there would be but one religion and everyone would be in agreement about what the facts truly are.

Sadly, Christians can't even agree amongst themselves...so there is a tiny little flaw in your argument.

Ray

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/27/2012 03:55:01 PM · #5577

Originally posted by Nullix:

More religious freedoms being taken away.

Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be Dismissed

Just to follow up:
Sixth Circuit: Counseling Student Cannot Be Expelled for Religious Views

Seems a counselor can refer out to another counselor if their views conflict with their patients.

Edit, I thought it was a ruling, but it's just the "okay" to go to a jury trial.

Message edited by author 2012-01-27 15:56:40.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

02/07/2012 04:05:45 PM · #5578

Prop 8 has been ruled unconstitutional again!

"The People may not employ the initiative power to single out a disfavored group for unequal treatment and strip them, without a legitimate justification, of a right as important as the right to marry."

So I'd like to share a little bit of the reaction from the news site I read:

From someone who is "Gay" married..My Partner of 8 years and I were married here in NYC last July...I can tell you that, that little word, "Married" makes such a huge difference. As silly as it sounds, being asked a cocktail party if your married, and saying yes..matters..filing our taxes in the city and state of NY and getting money back, matters, saving money with our healthcare provider as a married couple..matters...going to bed every-night and sleeping next to someone who stood up and professed a love and commitment in front of friends and his mother..matters..

I wasn't sure that being married would make me feel that different. We had lived together for 3 years already. But it does. It makes me look at him differently, and makes me look at myself and my actions and how they affect both of us differently. That little piece of paper is one of the strongest bonds in society..and one worth fighting for.

I fully believe in my lifetime, this will be as much as a non issue as an interracial marriage is now...

Isn't it exciting to be alive at this time and place in history?

-

My partner and I got married in NY (after 20 years) and we were both so overwhelmed at the significance that word carries when the Rabbi said it. Our kids were so funny and happy that their parents were FINALLY married. Can't believe this is happening in my lifetime, the great battle of our LGBT lives.

-

Congratulations all my American friends.....you have led the Battle for Equality....... As it was said of Brian Kinney; "You are saying the magic words; you are saying them for all of us".

And we do appreciate the great struggle in which you are engaged. For today we rejoice with you.

-

Can't say I'm not touched.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

02/07/2012 04:41:44 PM · #5579

KQED Radio (88.5 FM) in San Francisco will be having a one-hour summary and analysis tonight at 6:00 pm PST. Live internet stream should be available at their site.

Some people have said that the ruling is so much more narrow (than Judge Walker's original) and carefully crafted to be California-specific as to afford the SCOTUS the option/opportunity to just sidestep the issue for now and not hear the case at all -- THAT could be very interesting.

Message edited by author 2012-02-07 16:44:06.

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

02/07/2012 04:42:51 PM · #5580

Originally posted by Mousie:

A hearty +1

K3Master

Pentax K-3

02/07/2012 05:14:57 PM · #5581

It's not over by a long shot. Especially nation-wide down there. So much backwards thinking. Mitt Romney has already stated that he'll go out of his way to appoint judges to the Supreme Court that are specifically against Same-Sex Marriage should he become President.

How this has become something that a potential leader of a supposedly advanced civilization goes out of his way to stop (and potentially make a mockery out of the judicial system over, not that it really has much integrity to begin with) is beyond me. It's SUCH A NON-ISSUE.

I'm just so happy to be Canadian right now. Same-sex marriage across the board here, and nobody even thinks twice anymore.

Message edited by author 2012-02-07 17:15:47.

Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

02/07/2012 05:50:38 PM · #5582

Another reaction, related to K10Guy's post:

I can't really say I take pleasure in the crankiness of the right over this - I don't see what pleasure there can be in the unhappinesÂs of others - but I can say they brought it on themselvesÂ, and had it coming for the quite literal cheering they did over Prop 8's passage (and that of every similar measure).

I can almost feel sorry for them, because they're twisting themselves into knots over something which will never affect them. And that's what was so pernicious about their elation over Prop 8: their lives remained unaffected then, too, but they whooped and hollered over having inflicted unhappinesÂs - for absolutely no benefit to them - on millions they'll never even meet, and now salivate over the possible ways in which this ruling might ultimately be undone.

I don't see how they can find any joy in that, but they're welcome to it, if that's what floats their boats.

It still can't diminish mine (yeeee-ha!Â).

cowboy221977

Canon EOS-60D

02/07/2012 06:12:18 PM · #5583

I have been watching this thread from time to time...and I have finally decided to put my 2 cents in. As some people may know, I am very opinionated at times....Oh and yes I am a slight homophobe. So here is my opinion.

Who am I, to say to someone that they can not marry the person they love...(even though I don't know how you could love a member of the same sex with that kindof love). I believe that once they go upstairs...God will make a choice if it is acceptable or not.

Oh and I am still against Gays in the military.. It would not be so bad if they were segregated.....or just not allow them into combat units that are all male. That is really for their own safety.

ok that is my view

scalvert

02/07/2012 07:59:48 PM · #5584

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

How this has become something that a potential leader of a supposedly advanced civilization goes out of his way to stop (and potentially make a mockery out of the judicial system over, not that it really has much integrity to begin with) is beyond me. It's SUCH A NON-ISSUE.

It certainly SHOULDN'T be an issue. If someone tried to introduce a bill to "protect" voting by banning women or "protect" property owners by legislating the right to own slaves, he would be called out as a bigot and shamed by the public. It does not matter one iota how long those traditions of discrimination have been held nor how one might fantasize a deity "judging" people as less worthy for having been born female, black or gay. If people put as much effort into protecting the concepts of freedom and equality that originally defined this nation as they do looking for excuses to marginalize a group they don't like for something that doesn't affect them at all, this wouldn't even make the local news. Unfortunately, we still have people who can't get past their own fears and prejudices to drop black/female/Jewish/gay or whatever other qualifier they place in front of "person" to distinguish individuals as anything less than simply a person.

Calls like NJ Gov. Christie's to place civil rights issues on the ballot or Prop 8 proponents to heed the "will of the people" are desperate attempts to enforce discrimination by majority opinion, just as similar efforts were once made to keep women from voting or keep minorities out of public schools. Although there is some degree of satisfaction in seeing these people blow millions of dollars on a lost cause and preserving their opinions on the internet to the shame of future descendants, the writing is on the wall. This particular form of bigotry fell in California, it will soon fall in Washington, and the necessity of harmonizing basic marriage rights across state lines along with multiple Federal rulings that DOMA and DADT were both unconstitutional will compel the same conclusion in the Supreme Court, too. It's only a matter of time.

Nullix

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/08/2012 03:40:42 PM · #5585

Originally posted by Mousie:

Prop 8 has been ruled unconstitutional again!

Next, it'll go to a 11 judge panel on the appeal, then the USSC. Should have this all figured out by next year.

02/08/2012 04:57:28 PM · #5586

Lots of case details and a very powerful argument for the conservative nature of equal marriage rights from Ted Olson, on Rachel Maddow's show.

//www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hqx24bl4d6M

I really enjoy hearing about multiple courts going through every last argument of the Prop 8 proponents and completely dismantling them. A federal court has determined that Prop 8 was driven solely by animus. There's no other legitimate argument. I hope they're happy about flushing all that money on Prop 8. It helps the economy at least!

Social 'conservatives' just don't get it. By marrying my husband, I have become more conservative. We have household concerns. We have to go to twice as many traditional social gatherings. We have shared mortgages and stock to anguish over that tie us to careers that help build this economy. It's part of getting older.

It boggles the mind.

02/08/2012 05:22:12 PM · #5587

Meanwhile, straight from the floor of the House, the 'conservative' sentiment:

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) "Nature seemed to like the idea of an egg and a sperm coming together because of pro-creation. Apparently [the judges] thought the sperm had far better use some other way biologically, combining it with something else. But the voters of Iowa came back and said you know what, if you're not smart enough to figure out actual plumbing...then perhaps we need new judges, and that's what they did."

Really?

"Combining it with something else."

This argument is a crass attempt to evoke scatological imagery for the ewwwww vote, an attack on the integrity of the judicial system, and the casual demotion of the love and intimacy shared by a committed couple in a sexual relationship to something as base and mechanical as assembling pipe. Who's the group tarnishing the image of such an important human tradition, again?

Imagine you're in my shoes, reading the equivalent of that on a daily basis. I really wonder if most people get how prevalent these hatemongers are.

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

02/08/2012 08:44:06 PM · #5588

washington state legislature votes to approve
Just another positive statement in this ongoing quest.

Or in other words, OKAY!!!!!

(More than one saved up ! was used for this announcement)

Message edited by author 2012-02-08 20:45:23.

scalvert

02/08/2012 09:56:42 PM · #5589

Originally posted by Mousie:

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) "Nature seemed to like the idea of an egg and a sperm coming together because of pro-creation..."

Is Rep. Gohmert proposing a ban on marriage among senior citizens and sterile couples or merely demonstrating extreme stupidity?

02/09/2012 11:17:19 AM · #5590

It's been a pretty big week for equal rights!

I share your excitement, sfalice!

Message edited by author 2012-02-09 11:21:06.

02/09/2012 11:27:37 AM · #5591

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Mousie:
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) "Nature seemed to like the idea of an egg and a sperm coming together because of pro-creation..."

Is Rep. Gohmert proposing a ban on marriage among senior citizens and sterile couples or merely demonstrating extreme stupidity?

What do you think? Conservatives are oh so predictable, you're sure to get it right.

RayEthier

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

02/09/2012 06:40:27 PM · #5592

Originally posted by scalvert:

Is this one of them trick questions?

Ray

sfalice

Canon PowerShot SX60 HS

02/09/2012 08:50:32 PM · #5593

Originally posted by scalvert:

Actually, Rep. Louie just - for the first time ever, perhaps - understood how breakfast arrived at his table. YUmmm, eggs over easy, no sperm--I mean spam. Sorry folks, once every ten years or so, I can't help myself)

o2bskating

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/09/2012 09:02:00 PM · #5594

Originally posted by sfalice:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Mousie:
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) "Nature seemed to like the idea of an egg and a sperm coming together because of pro-creation..."

Is Rep. Gohmert proposing a ban on marriage among senior citizens and sterile couples or merely demonstrating extreme stupidity?

Actually, Rep. Louie just - for the first time ever, perhaps - understood how breakfast arrived at his table. YUmmm, eggs over easy, no sperm--I mean spam. Sorry folks, once every ten years or so, I can't help myself)

OMG YOU ARE AWESOME NICE ONE!!!!

escapetooz

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/12/2012 03:14:32 AM · #5595

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

While I appreciate that you realize it's not your job to judge other people's love you followed it up by saying we should segregate gays. Right and then what happens? Given the choice of an all gay squad or an all straight squad, who gets the better positions and who gets sent to the hardest missions and the front lines? You can't possibly be serious. For their own safety? How so? Are they animals that can't control themselves? Would it be dangerous for you to fight along side women? Think about it these things. You've said some highly offensive statements and you seem oblivious to it.

02/12/2012 09:26:25 AM · #5596

Originally posted by cowboy221977:

Originally posted by escapetooz:

I loved the That is really for their own safety. comment, too. I wonder if we could get an accurate, honest answer from him as to what he means by that.

Unfortunately, what I've noticed about homophobes is that due to their ignorance, they have these bizarre ideas of what a gay person really is. They don't seem to understand that gay people are regular folks.

Originally posted by escapetooz:

You've said some highly offensive statements and you seem oblivious to it.

He's really not a bad guy.......but the oblivious description is pretty close to home.

scalvert

02/12/2012 11:09:38 AM · #5597

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Unfortunately, what I've noticed about homophobes is that due to their ignorance, they have these bizarre ideas of what a gay person really is. They don't seem to understand that gay people are regular folks.

The whole point of DADT was that if a soldier didn't declare homosexuality, in many cases nobody would ever know the difference. The fact that some soldiers were gay obviously didn't affect their ability to serve or they wouldn't have been allowed to enlist and keep it to themselves in the first place. The only change is that fellow soldiers didn't know about it, which some people apparently believe would affect military performance. It follows then that the policy wasn't in place to protect gays at all, but to protect a few bigots from being so distracted by their own phobias that they forget about duty and jeopardize everyone else for the sake of petty prejudice. Don't Ask, Don't Tell: if covering your ears makes everything OK, the problem is you.

Message edited by author 2012-02-12 11:28:09.

02/12/2012 12:34:00 PM · #5598

Originally posted by scalvert:

It follows then that the policy wasn't in place to protect gays at all, but to protect a few ~~bigots~~ from being so distracted by their own phobias that they forget about duty and jeopardize everyone else for the sake of petty prejudice.

Without the (unfortunately true) jab , this is a very sad statement that's very real....

Originally posted by scalvert:

Don't Ask, Don't Tell: if covering your ears makes everything OK, the problem is you.

LOL!!! Love it!

yanko

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

02/12/2012 03:46:13 PM · #5599

Originally posted by scalvert:

It follows then that the policy wasn't in place to protect gays at all, but to protect a few bigots from being so distracted by their own phobias that they forget about duty and jeopardize everyone else for the sake of petty prejudice.

What is ironic is the military does all this training to make soliders overcome their fear of heights, of drowning, etc, phobias based around real dangers, yet homophobia which is based solely on ignorance and cannot cause injury was deemed too powerful to overcome. Go figure.

Message edited by author 2012-02-12 15:48:32.