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12/19/2011 01:33:47 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
Scalvert, how many slots are there in these. |
4 slots, two of them filled with 2GB modules. Buy this (installation is easy), and you're all set. Here's a comparison so you can see how that system stacks up against current iMacs and a Mac Pro (I bought the 2.7 version).
Message edited by author 2011-12-19 01:41:03. |
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12/19/2011 02:04:12 AM · #52 |
| I do have one more question, and hopefully it is not too provocative. I'm just wondering why, if Apple is all these things, has a marvelous marketing system, etc., it still represents but a fraction of the market for computer owners? |
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12/19/2011 02:17:07 AM · #53 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
if Apple is all these things, has a marvelous marketing system, etc., it still represents but a fraction of the market for computer owners? |
Old habits, and old myths, die hard. |
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12/19/2011 02:19:23 AM · #54 |
Originally posted by paulbtlw:
I'm a Mac user after spending years as a PC user (and builder) - if you want low end / basic setup, a PC will give you a bargain, if you want performance and reliability PCs just don't get near a Mac on a bang per buck basis.
Last PC laptop I bought - a £3k Rock, noisy, hot, heavy, 40 mins battery life - never really worked despite going back to the manufacturer three times.
Bought a MacBook Pro after that, faster, lighter, quieter, 5 hours battery life - completely reliable and ran Windows faster than the Rock.
Last PC Desktop I bought - a Chillblast Fusion: water-cooled (to be quiet) SLI beast, fastest quad core processor available at the time - highest score seen on 3D Mark when I bought it. Pretty good machine. Motherboard broke, replaced both graphics cards (they broke). Blue screened fairly often.
Upgraded to a Mac Pro - much quieter, better build quality, much, much faster, has never hung. Runs Windows natively under boot camp more quickly than the Chillblast - thought I would use Windows but I don't. The graphics card has broken but replacing was easy (despite the Apple Store saying the graphics card I wanted to put in wasn't supported - it works just fine)
At the high end Macs are bargains compared to very high end PCs.
Then there's the operating system - seems I was always patching and restarting Windows; the Mac occasionally restarts for updates but far far less.
If you buy into the whole Apple thing and have an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV and a MacBook. The ease with which you get really useful workflow is unrivalled.
Cons: If you want to constantly upgrade your hardware, the Mac isn't nearly so friendly but to be honest in recent years the changes to memory, motherboard sockets etc been than upgrading often means upgrading multiple components at a time.
I've had about 12 PCs, built five or six myself - I have had my Mac Pro for four years, nowhere near needing an upgrade yet.
Can't see me ever going back to PC - why would you when a Mac runs even Windows more quickly? |
What - he said !
I got a Mac (MacBook Pro laptop) 3 years ago because I had to replace my laptop, and, like you, I was curious about this reputation for being better for photography. Is it better for photography ?? I still don't really know - but - the screens are better, the ease of use is better. I have gotten over the need to "fiddle" with computers, so I don't see a problem with "the closed system" of apple.
However - I have put extra RAM into all my machines and I have replace the HD in my MBP with a 750G HD because I wanted more space for my photos. None of this voids any warranty.
I think if you are looking at Mac's - you probably need to look at other reasons other then photography. Both systems will run Photoshop, Lightroom - but I suppose with Mac you do have the advantage of Aperture if you want it.
The things I like is the OS , the machines themselves and a thousand other little things - other than one CPU is more powerful than another. With my Mac I can run Windows (which I do - because I had a version of PSE which was set up for my ageing printer ). I even run Linix for curiosity sake.
Since my first experiment with them - my wife now has an iMac - which she uses for everything except games (which she runs Win 7 in Bootcamp ); I have a MBP for work and an iMac for administration.
Personally - I have found them hassle free and pleasant to use. You can't really argue spec wise - because you will ALWAYS find cheaper.
You really need to go to a store and have a play. The Apple shop will allow you to play for hours if you wish. Then go to store with a similar spec Win machine - have a fiddle for a while and see what you like. The aspect of Photography really has no bearing - on this site I am sure that as many people using Mac's have gotten medals as WIN users - the same way as many people using Nikon as Cannon. |
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12/19/2011 02:24:26 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
If you're comfortable using a PC, then you can continue just fine with that. Apple's focus has long been on the creative industry, while PCs were for business. Accordingly, Macs have held an edge is areas like color management, printing, and intuitive ease of use. Apple's monitors tend to be very high quality, whereas it's hit or miss on a PC. Viruses are almost unheard of on Macs, and of course iPads, iPods and iPhones are more tightly integrated... take a photo with your iPhone and it will automagically be on your Mac and iPad, too. Macs come with iPhoto, which makes organization and basic photo editing a breeze, and you have to go out of your way to lose an original RAW file.
On the hardware side, both platforms use primarily industry standard parts and will run Photoshop comfortably, but the similarities end there. Many PCs are stripped down, and while they offer more opportunity for customization, Macs come with all the bells and whistles and little need to add anything (one reason for purported price differences). Blue-ray and USB 3.0 are an exception, although the Macs' Thunderbolt interface is arguably superior to USB. The other (and biggest) reason for price differences are that Apple doesn't cater to the low end. Instead, they use overwhelming supply chain leverage and shared components to maintain higher quality computers at competitive or lower prices than similar PCs. For example, PC makers are having a hard time competing with the MacBook Air on price. Typical PCs are price-sensitive commodity products, so the manufacturers necessarily use cheaper parts wherever possible to remain competitive. Apple, on the other hand, is very particular about the components it uses, and the result is a more reliable computer that's often faster than a PC with similar specs. The warranty on a refurbished Mac is the same as a new one, used models hold their value much better, and the OS and software upgrades don't cost as much since Apple doesn't have to make money on software alone. You can build a Mac on your own from scratch, just as you can build a BMW on your own. I wouldn't recommend either unless you really know what you're doing. |
Just realised I put the wrong quote in. Sorry Paul. But his comments still stand. I did mean to put Scalvert's comments in.
Doesn't matter - I think you get the general idea. |
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12/19/2011 02:33:59 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by MarioPierre:
The advantage is the one with the longest and most affordable "full coverage" warranty. |
The advantage goes to the system that doesn't break to require a warranty in the first place. |
Drop a mac or a pc and it might break, spill some coffee or beer in it and it might break or forget to remove a card reader before closing the display and well... it might break. Nothing lasts forever, all you can do is pay an extra hundred bucks to make sure you don't have to dish out a thousand for it if it dies. |
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12/19/2011 02:36:24 AM · #57 |
Originally posted by MarioPierre:
Drop a mac or a pc and it might break, spill some coffee or beer in it and it might break or forget to remove a card reader before closing the display and well... it might break. Nothing lasts forever, all you can do is pay an extra hundred bucks to make sure you don't have to dish out a thousand for it if it dies. |
Warranties don't usually cover abuse. Drop a Mac or PC and you're going to be buying a new one.
Message edited by author 2011-12-19 02:37:06. |
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12/19/2011 03:26:33 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by MarioPierre:
Drop a mac or a pc and it might break, spill some coffee or beer in it and it might break or forget to remove a card reader before closing the display and well... it might break. Nothing lasts forever, all you can do is pay an extra hundred bucks to make sure you don't have to dish out a thousand for it if it dies. |
Warranties don't usually cover abuse. Drop a Mac or PC and you're going to be buying a new one. |
Had a full coverage with my Acer, I got it one year minus one day before the original warranty expired but not all companies work that way. Anyways they said I could throw it down a flight of stairs and it would be covered, which is exactly what I did and got a new one, twice.
Also Dell:
"Accidents can happen, but with CompleteCare Accidental Damage Protection, you can be protected from accidental drops, spills and surges."
200$ for 5 years.
Everyone knows that store warranties should be avoided but what most people don't know is that if they call the company directly they can purchase an extended warranty with them and avoid all the usual red tape involved in sending the product in. They pay for shipping to and from, and it's usually fixed or replaced within a week or two. |
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12/19/2011 03:44:32 AM · #59 |
OK, just did the deal.
I will soon be the new owner of a 27" iMac i7 (specs as advised above)
Saved over $1,000 - it is a February build (not far off the current build but don't get the thunderbolt ports)
Has the apple protection plan so still set for over 2 years of warranty.
It is running Snow Leopard - should I update to Lion?
The huge savings is what has pushed me to try a Mac.
Hoping I will be another Mac lover.
Message edited by author 2011-12-19 03:45:03. |
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12/19/2011 04:02:08 AM · #60 |
Congrats! Am sure you will become a Mac lover.
I would update to Lion. I found that both my iMac and MacBook Pro operated faster after the update.
Enjoy! |
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12/19/2011 04:15:37 AM · #61 |
| I'll be curious to hear your findings. I've been a PC user for nearly 20 years, and whilst on an extended trip through Europe, have been using my girlfriend's MacBook Pro. Interestingly, Adobe Lightroom seems to run far better on the MacBook Pro (dual core i5 CPU, 4GB RAM) than on my PC workstation at home (Quad core i7, sandy bridge MB with 8GB RAM). The mac feels more responsive and I have no idea why! The PC has a solid state boot volume, fast external hard disks yet it still feels a bit sluggish in comparison. Maybe it's because the Lightroom library is so much bigger on the PC? Either way, I've been impressed with the mac... it's been a lot nicer to use. And this is coming from a PC die-hard. |
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12/19/2011 04:34:19 AM · #62 |
It is running Snow Leopard - should I update to Lion?
Only if you are using a track pad. I have upgraded my laptops and I really like Lion. At first I couldn't see a lot of difference but after using it for a while I found a lot of features I really liked. But - they generally rely on the trackpad (which the laptops have built in) for effective operation.
My wife has an iMac - which I haven't upgraded, because she hates the trackpad (personal preference) and I don't think she will get the full benefit of Lion. You can use Lion with a mouse but I don't think it is as easy.
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12/19/2011 04:48:25 AM · #63 |
| This will have the magic mouse and the trackpad so I will upgrade to Lion. Will stop at the Apple shop on the way to pick it up. |
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12/19/2011 06:35:43 AM · #64 |
First, computers are a pain to use, whether OSX, Windows7, Android, or iOS. The only operating system I find easy to interact with is the one in the washing machine.
Operating systems are still evolving, and it's important to remember it's the OS that defines the user experience, not the chips and wires inside the box.
A memory chip is equally likely to fail no matter what device it's sitting inside, mainly because they all come from the same factories to start with.
I moved from Windows to OSX for my main home machine because windows is such a pain in the arse with the constant updates. Plus, Vista greatly helped my decision; it was so badly thought out that I couldn't bear to work with it anymore.
But moving to OSX hasn't been the paradise mac aficionados make it out to be either. At the moment I use a mixture of operating systems every day. At home OSX, at work Windows 7 and Ubuntu, depending on what I'm doing.
But you can be guaranteed that whenever I need to *do* something out of the ordinary, like take some clips from a DVD and edit them with chapter markers... Then I'm in for a treat... 3 days of scouring apps, downloads, codecs, wiki articles about video encoding, and hopping around multiple OSes to achieve what I want to do.
The Mac versus PC argument is dead. It's all about using whatever OS on whatever device gets the job done. And none of them are quite there yet in being an 'all-seeing, all-doing' magic OS. |
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12/19/2011 07:48:44 AM · #65 |
I think the bottom line is;
If you're not technically minded, or just want to use your computer for normal desktop use (I'm including photoshop in this) and don't mind paying a little more, mac os x is probably the better choice.
Buying mac os x is buying in to a much more closed system where people are much more likely to use apple products than those from third parties (products that all interact with each other with little hassle). On top of that mac os x still only has about a 5% market share so you can afford to be much more negligent in your use of the internet (and other use) and not have to worry about viruses etc. since most malware is still targeted at windows machines.
The reasons I use windows as my main desktop os are:
Building my own pc is cheaper than buying the equivalent spec mac and I get more choice.
Mac's don't run the software I need (this is the big reason and one that won't matter too much to most people).
So long as you know what you're doing pc's aren't "unstable and virus ridden" as many mac users like to tote (this isn't really an argument 'for' windows, granted). In the past ~8 years I've had two hardware issues as far as I can recall, both were a faulty ram module and I's able to fix this both times in around 30 minutes (most of the time spent running a diagnostic) and the cost to me each time was probably about £10 - and I'll note here that mac's get hardware problems just as easily unless you bought badly when getting your pc (I guess this is another argument for mac, you don't need to think about what to buy so much). As for viruses I don't remember when I last had one of those, but as I said before, you have to be more aware when using windows (99% of the time a virus is on a system because the user put it there).
People who work for apple and people who live an iLife, half the time have an aura of pretence and smugness around them that just makes me despair (this isn't really a reason for me not buying mac os x, but it is a reason for me to vehemently avoid apple shops =)). |
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12/19/2011 08:07:16 AM · #66 |
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
I think the bottom line is;
If you're not technically minded, or just want to use your computer for normal desktop use (I'm including photoshop in this) and don't mind paying a little more, mac os x is probably the better choice.
Buying mac os x is buying in to a much more closed system where people are much more likely to use apple products than those from third parties (products that all interact with each other with little hassle). On top of that mac os x still only has about a 5% market share so you can afford to be much more negligent in your use of the internet (and other use) and not have to worry about viruses etc. since most malware is still targeted at windows machines.
The reasons I use windows as my main desktop os are:
Building my own pc is cheaper than buying the equivalent spec mac and I get more choice.
Mac's don't run the software I need (this is the big reason and one that won't matter too much to most people).
So long as you know what you're doing pc's aren't "unstable and virus ridden" as many mac users like to tote (this isn't really an argument 'for' windows, granted). In the past ~8 years I've had two hardware issues as far as I can recall, both were a faulty ram module and I's able to fix this both times in around 30 minutes (most of the time spent running a diagnostic) and the cost to me each time was probably about £10 - and I'll note here that mac's get hardware problems just as easily unless you bought badly when getting your pc (I guess this is another argument for mac, you don't need to think about what to buy so much). As for viruses I don't remember when I last had one of those, but as I said before, you have to be more aware when using windows (99% of the time a virus is on a system because the user put it there).
People who work for apple and people who live an iLife, half the time have an aura of pretence and smugness around them that just makes me despair (this isn't really a reason for me not buying mac os x, but it is a reason for me to vehemently avoid apple shops =)). |
+1
I think we were seperated at birth :)
I love the samsung phone commercial where all the people are waiting in line for the newest iphone and the guy says "i could never own a samsung, I am too creative" |
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12/19/2011 09:01:50 AM · #67 |
 tanguera in her original post asked for technical comparisons. That is the key point. Using a Mac is intuitive and hassle-free. So much so, it transcends most obsessions about "what's under the hood". I have a MacPro at home and an iMac at the gallery. They just work. And, they allow me to accomplish my business and my art efficiently. Acquaintances around me, who are still using WindowsOS PCs struggle with viruses and slow operation... constantly. I'm sure they just didn't upgrade or update in a timely manner. Most of the population is not going to be diligent about their computer's security. The point is they struggle with their PC machines. Life is too short to not enjoy the benefits of a Mac. That smoothness of Mac performance is reflected in a premium price.
Now, I'm quite certain a PC can be built with a Windows OS that can perform well. But, it will take extra attention to various vulnerabilities to protect the machine in a dangerous world, lest it experience the slow down performance of a zombie computer.
When acquaintances come to me seeking help for their poor performing PC, I politely tell them I can't help them. When friends ask for advice on their computers I gently suggest they acquire a Mac. |
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12/19/2011 09:14:02 AM · #68 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
Will stop at the Apple shop on the way to pick it up. |
Don't bother. You get Lion through the App Store (online) once you've hooked up the computer. The only way to get it from an Apple store is on a USB flash drive, and that's $69 vs. the $29 version online. |
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12/19/2011 09:15:16 AM · #69 |
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
People who work for apple and people who live an iLife, half the time have an aura of pretence and smugness around them that just makes me despair (this isn't really a reason for me not buying mac os x, but it is a reason for me to vehemently avoid apple shops =)). |
That avoidance may explain why you recite myths. |
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12/19/2011 09:24:47 AM · #70 |
I have had many Windows computer since back in the WIN 95 days, I bought a used non intel MacBook in 2005 (13" white plastic one) and loved it. I started to notice then the battery life was amazing, and you never ever had to shut it down... it just comes alive when you need it to and never slows down. Since then I have always gone with MAC for the Laptop, I have an Android tablet (Xoom) because I find it better than the iPad 2, and I have a windows 7 Desktop for Gaming and general purpose (but I honestly rarely use it). Just to give perspective here, I am not an Apple-Only fan-boy... I go with whatever I think works best, no matter the maker. And in my long line of Laptop ownerships, MAC just has it... I am typing this on my MacBook PRO i7 :) I do all my video/photo editing, and everything else on this to be honest it is a work horse, also very durable... I have lugged it all over the world in the last 2 years and all that has happened is I upgraded the RAM to 8 GIGS and am even happier with it :)
What others have said on here about MAC running windows faster than a PC tower is true, I dual booted for a while to Windows 7 and it ran far better than I had ever imagined it should/would.
I will likely always have a PC desktop for general purpose/friends/family to use because it is the baseline of familiarity with computer systems. But my personal laptop will likely always be a MAC. |
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12/19/2011 09:28:44 AM · #71 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
I love the samsung phone commercial where all the people are waiting in line for the newest iphone and the guy says "i could never own a samsung, I am too creative" |
Hah, yeah, that's a funny ad =).
Originally posted by scalvert:
That avoidance may explain why you recite myths. |
What myths? |
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12/19/2011 10:12:57 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by HawkinsT:
So long as you know what you're doing pc's aren't "unstable and virus ridden" as many mac users like to tote (this isn't really an argument 'for' windows, granted). In the past ~8 years I've had two hardware issues as far as I can recall, both were a faulty ram module and I's able to fix this both times in around 30 minutes (most of the time spent running a diagnostic) and the cost to me each time was probably about £10 - and I'll note here that mac's get hardware problems just as easily unless you bought badly when getting your pc (I guess this is another argument for mac, you don't need to think about what to buy so much). As for viruses I don't remember when I last had one of those, but as I said before, you have to be more aware when using windows (99% of the time a virus is on a system because the user put it there).
People who work for apple and people who live an iLife, half the time have an aura of pretence and smugness around them that just makes me despair (this isn't really a reason for me not buying mac os x, but it is a reason for me to vehemently avoid apple shops =)). |
I don't really want to waste my brainpower to "know what I'm doing" with my PC, I just want it to work. Combing through specs on 1000's of graphics cards, RAM modules and esoteric settings is fine if you're into that sort of thing, but I'm not. I just want to turn on my computer and do work with it, not work on it. My experience with PCs has been less than impressive compared to my experience with Mac.
It's like the guy with a car he works on all the time...He knows it inside and out and can fix whatever breaks on it vs. the guy who just drives his car from A to B and lets a mechanic take care of the service. I just want to drive, I don't want to be a mechanic. |
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12/19/2011 10:34:54 AM · #73 |
Hypothetically...
If I were to go to the Apple Store and buy an iPad2, or whatever the latest model is, for the wife for xmas...
What specs, secrets, variable features, or whatever, should I be aware of... if any ?
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12/19/2011 11:07:10 AM · #74 |
Why don,t those who haven,t already done so just go and buy a Mac.
Then we won,t need to have these threads.
You all know it makes sense . |
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12/19/2011 12:08:57 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
What specs, secrets, variable features, or whatever, should I be aware of... if any ? |
Mainly: if you get a 3G model, make sure you choose one for the network that makes sense for you. AT&T is faster while Verizon is more reliable and offers access in more places. There is no contract, so you can turn the 3G features on and off for the months you need it. I don't know what carriers you have in the tundra lands. |
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