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11/21/2011 01:52:40 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Do you really see race as being that determinant? |
It was just an example to show that there are always people who stick up for the other side.
Like I said, I don't know much about this whole ordeal but it seems to me that if so many people are going on and on about how bad the cops are then you would think that a cop or two would say, "you know what? I think these people are right... I am sticking up for them." |
Well, there is this of course. Great photograph here as well. |
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11/21/2011 01:55:26 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Do you really see race as being that determinant? |
It was just an example to show that there are always people who stick up for the other side.
Like I said, I don't know much about this whole ordeal but it seems to me that if so many people are going on and on about how bad the cops are then you would think that a cop or two would say, "you know what? I think these people are right... I am sticking up for them." |
Well, there is this of course. Great photograph here as well. |
I stand corrected.
Great photograph indeed. And good find.
Maybe I am just oblivious about this whole thing and how it works. I will stop saying anything until I learn more to back myself up. Like I said, I don't know much about this whole thing.
All I know..
Cops vs. Students...
Cops won. |
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11/21/2011 01:59:35 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
how bad the cops are then you would think that a cop or two would say, "you know what? I think these people are right... I am sticking up for them." |
So the same is true of Nazi death camps. Ever hear of an SS guard at Buchenwald or Auchwitz who decided that extermination was bad and turned to his fellow guards and asked those questions? Does that mean that genocide is OK? I mean someone would have stopped it if it was bad, right?
You need to read up on the power of group identity and the limits of behavior of a uniform or any self-imposed identifier. Cops follow orders. Period. They can discuss strategy in the squad room later. On the line, you do what you are told, and you back up your fellow officers. |
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11/21/2011 02:09:11 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Being a college student at a school..snip...I would like to know though if it was unlawful that the students were there, then as a "peaceful" protester, you would think that they would abide by the laws. But again, I don't even know if it was unlawful. Lol. |
This is called "Civil disobedience". A method of protest invented by an Indian lawyer called Mohandas Gandhi. It uses passive protest to create a problem for civil authority. You break a law, but you do so without violence. You should read up on it. |
I don't think civil disobedience was Gandhi's idea. It goes back at least to Thoreau, if not further. |
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11/21/2011 02:27:53 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
how bad the cops are then you would think that a cop or two would say, "you know what? I think these people are right... I am sticking up for them." |
So the same is true of Nazi death camps. Ever hear of an SS guard at Buchenwald or Auchwitz who decided that extermination was bad and turned to his fellow guards and asked those questions? Does that mean that genocide is OK? I mean someone would have stopped it if it was bad, right?
You need to read up on the power of group identity and the limits of behavior of a uniform or any self-imposed identifier. Cops follow orders. Period. They can discuss strategy in the squad room later. On the line, you do what you are told, and you back up your fellow officers. |
I can imagine that this is true.
Something that kinda contradicts this is, and I quote "They can discuss strategy in the squad room later."
I assume that they do... So why hasn't anything changed with this? Again, I don't even know if what they did was all that bad! Did they have a reason? Pfft, I don't know.. I wasn't there. Lol. |
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11/21/2011 03:23:30 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Do you really see race as being that determinant? |
It was just an example to show that there are always people who stick up for the other side.
Like I said, I don't know much about this whole ordeal but it seems to me that if so many people are going on and on about how bad the cops are then you would think that a cop or two would say, "you know what? I think these people are right... I am sticking up for them." |
Actually, someone posted a link in one of the other threads about an ex-Chief of Police in Seattle who keeps saying that what the police are doing today is wrong. |
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11/21/2011 04:25:09 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Judith Polakoff:
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Being a college student at a school..snip...I would like to know though if it was unlawful that the students were there, then as a "peaceful" protester, you would think that they would abide by the laws. But again, I don't even know if it was unlawful. Lol. |
This is called "Civil disobedience". A method of protest invented by an Indian lawyer called Mohandas Gandhi. It uses passive protest to create a problem for civil authority. You break a law, but you do so without violence. You should read up on it. |
I don't think civil disobedience was Gandhi's idea. It goes back at least to Thoreau, if not further. |
//science.jrank.org/pages/8660/Civil-Disobedience-History-Concept.html
Originally posted by article:
"The concept of civil disobedience has evolved over a long period of time. Ideas drawn from different periods of history and from different cultures have contributed to its evolution. The idea that there is a law that transcends the laws of the state is found in Socrates (c. 470ΓΆ€“399 B.C.E.), in some of the classical Greek tragedies, and in the Indian concept of dharma (duty). In these traditions, should the higher law and the laws of the state come into conflict, the individual had the obligation to disobey the laws of the state. In the Middle Ages, St. Thomas Aquinas (1225ΓΆ€“1274) defended the natural-law view that unjust laws did not bind the citizen in conscience. John Locke (1632ΓΆ€“1704) taught that the government derived its authority from the people, that one of the purposes of the government was the protection of the natural rights of the people, and that the people had the right to alter the government should it fail to discharge its fundamental duties." |
Goes on to discuss Thoreau, who gave us the phrase "civil disobedience", Gandhi, and King. But the source of the concept is ancient.
R.
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11/21/2011 04:31:57 PM · #58 |
My riot squad would destroy recording devices with water cannons and EMF.
My riot squad would wear black.
My riot squad would bang on their shields while they march.
My riot squad would be totally badass.
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11/21/2011 04:36:49 PM · #59 |
They're beating up the poets now.
Not necessarily a bad thing. Keeps them on their toes and gives them something to write about. Elderly poet laureates though. That's a bit mean.
'Beat Poets not beat poets.' Heh. |
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11/21/2011 04:50:43 PM · #60 |
| Dr. Pepper are missing out on a fantastic marketing opportunity here. |
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11/21/2011 05:35:52 PM · #61 |
I guess I do not read enough but I am still not sure exactly what all these protesters want, I get that they are angry or maybe have nothing else to do but what exactly do they want done about all those rich greedy corperations and corrupt government officials? Is wasting more tax dollars the answer? Do they have anything in mind that will make them happy?
I guess I look at all this as a huge waste it time and resources that will never have any resolve and believe a large percentage are just there because they do not want to miss out. I had to laugh when I drove through Aspen, CO and they were starting to gather, Aspen is where the rich go to live and vacation and a place where the common folk go to work, without the money there is no work. |
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11/21/2011 05:36:27 PM · #62 |
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11/21/2011 05:40:13 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
I guess I do not read enough but I am still not sure exactly what all these protesters want, I get that they are angry or maybe have nothing else to do but what exactly do they want done about all those rich greedy corperations and corrupt government officials? Is wasting more tax dollars the answer? Do they have anything in mind that will make them happy?
I guess I look at all this as a huge waste it time and resources that will never have any resolve and believe a large percentage are just there because they do not want to miss out. I had to laugh when I drove through Aspen, CO and they were starting to gather, Aspen is where the rich go to live and vacation and a place where the common folk go to work, without the money there is no work. |
No offence, but you might want to read this thread from the top down and you might then gain an appreciation of what transpired in this instance and why people are so upset about it.
Ray |
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11/21/2011 05:44:21 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by PapaBob:
I guess I do not read enough but I am still not sure exactly what all these protesters want, I get that they are angry or maybe have nothing else to do but what exactly do they want done about all those rich greedy corperations and corrupt government officials? Is wasting more tax dollars the answer? Do they have anything in mind that will make them happy?
I guess I look at all this as a huge waste it time and resources that will never have any resolve and believe a large percentage are just there because they do not want to miss out. I had to laugh when I drove through Aspen, CO and they were starting to gather, Aspen is where the rich go to live and vacation and a place where the common folk go to work, without the money there is no work. |
No offence, but you might want to read this thread from the top down and you might then gain an appreciation of what transpired in this instance and why people are so upset about it.
Ray |
Ray, I understand what happened in this case and saw the video, cops look like they were out of line but still comes down to being there in the first place. When you gather and start protesting peacefully or not things have a way of getting out of hand. |
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11/21/2011 05:53:36 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
...Ray, I understand what happened in this case and saw the video, cops look like they were out of line but still comes down to being there in the first place. When you gather and start protesting peacefully or not things have a way of getting out of hand. |
You are absolutely right about things getting out of hand, but it saddens me to think that the instigators in this instance are those very people that society depends upon to "Serve and Protect". The actions of the police in this instance are an absolute aberration.
Ray |
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11/21/2011 05:53:42 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
When you gather and start protesting peacefully or not things have a way of getting out of hand. |
Wow! If you step out of line, you deserve to be hurt? Peaceful protest deserves to be responded to with violent attack? That is pretty messed up.
When 70 year old women are being attacked by 30 year old men with batons, the fact that the 30 year old is wearing a shield makes this something you think is right or at least expected?
Message edited by author 2011-11-21 17:56:54. |
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11/21/2011 05:54:57 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by PapaBob:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by PapaBob:
I guess I do not read enough but I am still not sure exactly what all these protesters want, I get that they are angry or maybe have nothing else to do but what exactly do they want done about all those rich greedy corperations and corrupt government officials? Is wasting more tax dollars the answer? Do they have anything in mind that will make them happy?
I guess I look at all this as a huge waste it time and resources that will never have any resolve and believe a large percentage are just there because they do not want to miss out. I had to laugh when I drove through Aspen, CO and they were starting to gather, Aspen is where the rich go to live and vacation and a place where the common folk go to work, without the money there is no work. |
No offence, but you might want to read this thread from the top down and you might then gain an appreciation of what transpired in this instance and why people are so upset about it.
Ray |
Ray, I understand what happened in this case and saw the video, cops look like they were out of line but still comes down to being there in the first place. When you gather and start protesting peacefully or not things have a way of getting out of hand. |
Ummm where better to protest tuition hikes than on campus? |
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11/21/2011 06:09:03 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
All I know..
Cops vs. Students...
Cops won. |
I don't see it that way.
Cops vs. Students
Students won
The proof is in the uproar. The demonstrations have gotten so much bigger here at Davis and other places, much bigger than they ever would of if the perfect villain hadn't made themselves available.
People love a good villain to rally against. |
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11/21/2011 06:09:48 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Spork99:
Originally posted by PapaBob:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by PapaBob:
I guess I do not read enough but I am still not sure exactly what all these protesters want, I get that they are angry or maybe have nothing else to do but what exactly do they want done about all those rich greedy corperations and corrupt government officials? Is wasting more tax dollars the answer? Do they have anything in mind that will make them happy?
I guess I look at all this as a huge waste it time and resources that will never have any resolve and believe a large percentage are just there because they do not want to miss out. I had to laugh when I drove through Aspen, CO and they were starting to gather, Aspen is where the rich go to live and vacation and a place where the common folk go to work, without the money there is no work. |
No offence, but you might want to read this thread from the top down and you might then gain an appreciation of what transpired in this instance and why people are so upset about it.
Ray |
Ray, I understand what happened in this case and saw the video, cops look like they were out of line but still comes down to being there in the first place. When you gather and start protesting peacefully or not things have a way of getting out of hand. |
Ummm where better to protest tuition hikes than on campus? |
Ray, you are right I missed the point of why they protesting on this one, I just lumped them in with all the other protests going on. I still feel it is a waste if time and resources and gathering in large groups creates potential for things to get out of hand. Cops were way out of line. |
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11/22/2011 05:25:25 AM · #70 |
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11/22/2011 08:14:46 AM · #71 |
| I may be on track for a double Yanko-ing in this thread. |
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11/22/2011 08:43:24 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
bingo. be careful ken, you're speaking common sense.
Message edited by author 2011-11-22 08:46:26. |
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11/22/2011 09:33:21 AM · #73 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
bingo. be careful ken, you're speaking common sense. |
Spoken like true American patriots. Keep your head down, do as your told and you won't get hurt. I remember John Wayne say something along those lines in that old classic western when he played a nanny having to put up with eight unruly children at the same times as getting a large meal ready. He was all fingers and thumbs when the soup wasn't cooked and the little ones were getting under his feet. Inspiring stuff! God bless America! Land of the Free...um no, the Brave.... no i've got it... Land of Common Sense!!
Message edited by author 2011-11-22 09:35:14. |
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11/22/2011 09:38:28 AM · #74 |
I had this debate again last night with an 'anti-protestor' - It left me feeling that we're being carefully led into an 'us versus them' mindset. Us, the law-abiding citizens, being inconvenienced by these tent-dwelling hippies blocking our roads and monuments.
Anyway, the suggestion was put to me; 'why can't the protestors go and protest somewhere where they won't affect anyone?' - Yeah, I'm sure we can bus them out to the nearest national park or nature reserve where they can set up their tents and protest to their heart's content. |
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11/22/2011 09:38:55 AM · #75 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by sfalice:
I am so very sorry to see this happen. I wish I knew what to do to make sure it never happens again.
Ideas? |
Hmmm, it's a longshot, but I think if they had moved when the police ordered them to....... |
bingo. be careful ken, you're speaking common sense. |
That's like the wife beater who justifies punching his wife in the face by saying "I told her to shut up or I would punch her face in." Common sense, right. She deserved it.
Message edited by author 2011-11-22 09:40:45. |
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