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10/21/2011 02:07:42 PM · #126 |
NO...I stated could had retired. I lost 70% of what I worked for in the last 40 years. So I should feel bad because my employer did all the right things to keep there employees employed and I did the things to get me where I am. I should be feel guilty I still have a job. Came from nothing. Lost it all in the 1982 and hanging by a thread now. So now it's the people who are struggling and still making it by a threads fault? There's not a level of poverty I haven't experienced. Health. ..lived 10 years longer then I thought I would.
OOPS....Done.
Originally posted by Spork99:
A 10% pay cut? You must have really struggled with that, I'll bet you kept your benefits too... you should try a 100% pay cut with no benefits and lay awake wondering what the Hell you're gonna do if one of your kids gets sick or if you get sick.
You posted about having had the option to retire. Plenty of folks got wiped out and retirement's one more thing they'll never get.
Originally posted by ace flyman:
It's a shame parts of our society has gone that way. But I can sleep at night knowing I still have mine. Protected world...hmmmm. Again sorry about the bad apple example. I'm speaking as a consumer not a banker. As a banker our company employees/management all took a 10% cut in pay, all bonuses all the way to the top stopped instead of mass layoffs. We paid the government back with in the year plus interest. We didn't fall into the games the other institutions did in the lending world. We are the 2nd strongest bank in the states. Our stock stayed steady and true through out the crash. Because of how we do business. Again, there are rotten apples on any tree. Do I feel fortunate to be employed HELL YES. Protected HELL NO.
It's crappy anyway you look at it. I see the glass half full and half empty....Thanks for letting me have my opinion. Carry on. |
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10/21/2011 03:07:17 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by ace flyman:
NO...I stated could had retired. I lost 70% of what I worked for in the last 40 years. So I should feel bad because my employer did all the right things to keep there employees employed and I did the things to get me where I am. I should be feel guilty I still have a job. Came from nothing. Lost it all in the 1982 and hanging by a thread now. So now it's the people who are struggling and still making it by a threads fault? There's not a level of poverty I haven't experienced. Health. ..lived 10 years longer then I thought I would.
OOPS....Done.
Originally posted by Spork99:
A 10% pay cut? You must have really struggled with that, I'll bet you kept your benefits too... you should try a 100% pay cut with no benefits and lay awake wondering what the Hell you're gonna do if one of your kids gets sick or if you get sick.
You posted about having had the option to retire. Plenty of folks got wiped out and retirement's one more thing they'll never get.
Originally posted by ace flyman:
It's a shame parts of our society has gone that way. But I can sleep at night knowing I still have mine. Protected world...hmmmm. Again sorry about the bad apple example. I'm speaking as a consumer not a banker. As a banker our company employees/management all took a 10% cut in pay, all bonuses all the way to the top stopped instead of mass layoffs. We paid the government back with in the year plus interest. We didn't fall into the games the other institutions did in the lending world. We are the 2nd strongest bank in the states. Our stock stayed steady and true through out the crash. Because of how we do business. Again, there are rotten apples on any tree. Do I feel fortunate to be employed HELL YES. Protected HELL NO.
It's crappy anyway you look at it. I see the glass half full and half empty....Thanks for letting me have my opinion. Carry on. |
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in all honesty if you work for a bank HELL YES YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD i honestly don't care if your bank did everything right or not because even when your operating within the law your credit card division is raping people with high fees and interest rates. there is no bank out there that isn't screwing their customers, and if you believe what they are telling you your a fool. |
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10/21/2011 05:05:58 PM · #128 |
I did all the right things too and I got fucked, so did a lot of others. You got lucky, luckier than a lot of folks. Don't kick them when they're down.
It's the financial industry, the government, and the way corporations OWN the government. It's the fact that corporate influence on government far outweighs the people's influence. It's not supposed to be government of the corporation, for the corporation and by the corporation. Corporations aren't people.
Originally posted by ace flyman:
NO...I stated could had retired. I lost 70% of what I worked for in the last 40 years. So I should feel bad because my employer did all the right things to keep there employees employed and I did the things to get me where I am. I should be feel guilty I still have a job. Came from nothing. Lost it all in the 1982 and hanging by a thread now. So now it's the people who are struggling and still making it by a threads fault? There's not a level of poverty I haven't experienced. Health. ..lived 10 years longer then I thought I would.
OOPS....Done.
Originally posted by Spork99:
A 10% pay cut? You must have really struggled with that, I'll bet you kept your benefits too... you should try a 100% pay cut with no benefits and lay awake wondering what the Hell you're gonna do if one of your kids gets sick or if you get sick.
You posted about having had the option to retire. Plenty of folks got wiped out and retirement's one more thing they'll never get.
Originally posted by ace flyman:
It's a shame parts of our society has gone that way. But I can sleep at night knowing I still have mine. Protected world...hmmmm. Again sorry about the bad apple example. I'm speaking as a consumer not a banker. As a banker our company employees/management all took a 10% cut in pay, all bonuses all the way to the top stopped instead of mass layoffs. We paid the government back with in the year plus interest. We didn't fall into the games the other institutions did in the lending world. We are the 2nd strongest bank in the states. Our stock stayed steady and true through out the crash. Because of how we do business. Again, there are rotten apples on any tree. Do I feel fortunate to be employed HELL YES. Protected HELL NO.
It's crappy anyway you look at it. I see the glass half full and half empty....Thanks for letting me have my opinion. Carry on. |
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10/21/2011 06:07:02 PM · #129 |
What is the justification for taxing "unearned income" at half the rate of "earned" income?
Originally posted by Bible, 1 Timothy 6:10:
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. |
How is a "derivative" any different than a bet? (Note that this is how these and other "investment intruments" seem to be universally referred-to.) As such, why are they not taxed under the same rules as gambling? |
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10/21/2011 06:30:42 PM · #130 |
No..don't get me wrong, the only reason I gave some of my back ground is I know personally how it is. My only point getting into this discussion is we need to take some of blame even if we weren't part of the abuse as some consumers were, we did benefit from it. If I came across that way I'm truly sorry. I am truly lucky no doubt.
I agree with you 100%. The occupy movement was Great to get the message out. You have to have a plan after that. Call, email and write your
Congressman, Mayor, Governor. Don't just sit in the parks. Go to the capital, the Mayor and Congressman's homes and protest. (peacefully & legally). If the hundred of thousand occupy protesters did this along with us average people sending the message it would re-enforce the movement. If voter registration went up by huge numbers it would make another huge impact. In my opinion it's trickle down effect. Starting with the government as you stated. The big corporation shouldn't be able buy there vote or influence. Not only does the Lending and Financial investment industry needs to have better oversight. Big business taking jobs overseas should pay a tariff to the tune where it doesn't make sense to ship jobs out of country. The taxation is totally screwed up. A 1 or 2% straight across the board tax on gross income & gross profit for business with no write offs/deductions would most likely balance the budget. Even Buffet stated a couple years ago the 1% is not taxed as they should be.
Like I said, it's crappy anyway you look at it. It's going to take we the people to fix it.
Originally posted by Spork99:
I did all the right things too and I got fucked, so did a lot of others. You got lucky, luckier than a lot of folks. Don't kick them when they're down.
It's the financial industry, the government, and the way corporations OWN the government. It's the fact that corporate influence on government far outweighs the people's influence. It's not supposed to be government of the corporation, for the corporation and by the corporation. Corporations aren't people.
Originally posted by ace flyman:
NO...I stated could had retired. I lost 70% of what I worked for in the last 40 years. So I should feel bad because my employer did all the right things to keep there employees employed and I did the things to get me where I am. I should be feel guilty I still have a job. Came from nothing. Lost it all in the 1982 and hanging by a thread now. So now it's the people who are struggling and still making it by a threads fault? There's not a level of poverty I haven't experienced. Health. ..lived 10 years longer then I thought I would.
OOPS....Done.
Originally posted by Spork99:
A 10% pay cut? You must have really struggled with that, I'll bet you kept your benefits too... you should try a 100% pay cut with no benefits and lay awake wondering what the Hell you're gonna do if one of your kids gets sick or if you get sick.
You posted about having had the option to retire. Plenty of folks got wiped out and retirement's one more thing they'll never get.
Originally posted by ace flyman:
It's a shame parts of our society has gone that way. But I can sleep at night knowing I still have mine. Protected world...hmmmm. Again sorry about the bad apple example. I'm speaking as a consumer not a banker. As a banker our company employees/management all took a 10% cut in pay, all bonuses all the way to the top stopped instead of mass layoffs. We paid the government back with in the year plus interest. We didn't fall into the games the other institutions did in the lending world. We are the 2nd strongest bank in the states. Our stock stayed steady and true through out the crash. Because of how we do business. Again, there are rotten apples on any tree. Do I feel fortunate to be employed HELL YES. Protected HELL NO.
It's crappy anyway you look at it. I see the glass half full and half empty....Thanks for letting me have my opinion. Carry on. |
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10/21/2011 11:41:25 PM · #131 |
It's so easy to blame "them". The problem is always caused by "them". Once it was the Jews. Now it is the banks. It is never our decision making, for we are always innocents, taken advantage of by "them".
We hate congress, but return the same type of people to office election after election. "Everyone" knows the elections are bought by big business. Since it is our votes that put the politicians in office, perhaps it is we who sell out.
The average voter expends almost no effort in researching candidates. They simply read the polls, and pay marginal attention to the attack ads. Why are there attack ads? Because they work. Whom do they work with? Us. Why are there so few positive campaigns, where the candidate lays out their plans, hopes, dreams? Because the voters do not listen.
We vote for increased spending, and tax cuts, and wonder why there is a deficit.
Yet it is never, ever, our fault. It is always "them". |
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10/22/2011 12:38:52 AM · #132 |
Originally posted by ambaker:
It's so easy to blame "them". The problem is always caused by "them". Once it was the Jews. Now it is the banks. It is never our decision making, for we are always innocents, taken advantage of by "them".
We hate congress, but return the same type of people to office election after election. "Everyone" knows the elections are bought by big business. Since it is our votes that put the politicians in office, perhaps it is we who sell out.
The average voter expends almost no effort in researching candidates. They simply read the polls, and pay marginal attention to the attack ads. Why are there attack ads? Because they work. Whom do they work with? Us. Why are there so few positive campaigns, where the candidate lays out their plans, hopes, dreams? Because the voters do not listen.
We vote for increased spending, and tax cuts, and wonder why there is a deficit.
Yet it is never, ever, our fault. It is always "them". |
So what do you suggest... I rarely vote because I am discussed an ALL the options available..... Should I instead always vote and add Mickey Mouse to the list of names?? Do I vote for the least hated of the options available to me?? I'm all ears.... (no I ain't starting my own party - something realistic that people could do).... |
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10/22/2011 01:10:24 AM · #133 |
What do I suggest?
That we the people start paying attention to everyone who runs for office. To work for those whom we agree with. If just half of the US population gave just four hours of their time during an election cycle to a candidate, that would be 600 Million person hours. Similarly, if the same half of the country gave $1 per month, in an election year, to a candidate they wanted to see elected, that would amount to a total of $1.8 Billion. For less than a minute of our time and less than four cents a day, a real difference could be made.
In the immortal words from Pogo. We have met the enemy, and he is us.
The founders of this country dreamed of a government of the people. Not a government elected by listening only to sound bites and reading polls and endorsements.
If we abdicate our responsibility as the electorate, we have no reason to expect improvement. People who are elected on corporate dollars, and slick advertising have no reason to be loyal to us. Only when we start paying attention, will attention be paid to us.
Message edited by author 2011-10-22 01:10:50. |
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10/22/2011 01:26:47 AM · #134 |
Originally posted by robs:
So what do you suggest... I rarely vote because I am discussed an ALL the options available..... Should I instead always vote and add Mickey Mouse to the list of names?? Do I vote for the least hated of the options available to me?? I'm all ears.... (no I ain't starting my own party - something realistic that people could do).... |
I would suggest that you take the approach you take at the supermarket. You buy the best stuff you can find on the shelves based on your tastes and budget. If you wait until the perfect foodstuff appears on your local shelves (local sourced, whole grain, amazingly delicious, low calorie, from a company that you love) you would starve to death. Of course given the huge size of the average American, we aren't too choosy about what we put in our mouths, and perhaps we ought to be a bit more picky. However given that half the American population chooses not to vote at all, perhaps they ought to be willing to express their opinion, even if it is not an ideal set of choices.
Given a choice of bad and awful, I can choose bad; heck I do it every time I eat at the drive through. |
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10/26/2011 12:22:34 PM · #135 |
//www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/
hmmm, so it looks as if this is all a big ACORN junket.
Message edited by author 2011-10-26 12:22:52. |
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10/26/2011 12:37:53 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by robs:
So what do you suggest... I rarely vote because I am discussed an ALL the options available..... Should I instead always vote and add Mickey Mouse to the list of names?? Do I vote for the least hated of the options available to me?? I'm all ears.... (no I ain't starting my own party - something realistic that people could do).... |
I would suggest that you take the approach you take at the supermarket. You buy the best stuff you can find on the shelves based on your tastes and budget. If you wait until the perfect foodstuff appears on your local shelves (local sourced, whole grain, amazingly delicious, low calorie, from a company that you love) you would starve to death. Of course given the huge size of the average American, we aren't too choosy about what we put in our mouths, and perhaps we ought to be a bit more picky. However given that half the American population chooses not to vote at all, perhaps they ought to be willing to express their opinion, even if it is not an ideal set of choices.
Given a choice of bad and awful, I can choose bad; heck I do it every time I eat at the drive through. |
if you give your vote to the "Bad", you give "him" your approval. |
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10/26/2011 12:43:13 PM · #137 |
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10/26/2011 01:49:57 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by Basta:
if you give your vote to the "Bad", you give "him" your approval. |
Your approval is not needed, only your silence. When enough voters withhold their right to vote, those who bother to vote will have their voices amplified. Silence equals consent. |
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10/26/2011 02:30:25 PM · #139 |
I'm glad to see folks put down their xBox and go out and get involved. I don't really care which of the many Occupy causes brought them there, it's good to see them care enough to show up.
... But it will all be pointless if they don't "Occupy the Voting Booth".
I wonder if i can copyright that phrase and make tee-shirts and bumper stickers. Maybe I can become rich enough to become the problem :)
Also, now that the power brokers are sending in riot squads, get your cameras ready. Perhaps we need a "Somethings happenin' here" challenge? (Buffalo Springfield... Ask your parents...)
Mike |
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10/26/2011 02:32:53 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Basta:
if you give your vote to the "Bad", you give "him" your approval. |
Your approval is not needed, only your silence. When enough voters withhold their right to vote, those who bother to vote will have their voices amplified. Silence equals consent. |
silence can also be a sign of disapproval. And it could be much louder than just throwing your vote away. Its all in the numbers.
To use your own analogy about "Drive thru fast food" There is always a choice of the hunger strike. |
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10/26/2011 03:44:52 PM · #141 |
| Your very best voice will be your vote. There IS power in numbers, but up to now, that has been one of the recent problems, along with people ignoring what's going on and pretending it doesn't affect them. Well, now it's starting to! |
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10/26/2011 03:54:18 PM · #142 |
Hunger strikes and silence work when those you are attempting to shame, are interested in your welfare. If they do not care, then you are just another voice silenced, another mouth that does not need to be fed, another enemy who does not need to be beaten down, for he has chosen to lie down at their feet.
Stand up and be counted, or lie down and let fortune take you where it will. |
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10/26/2011 04:53:56 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Hunger strikes and silence work when those you are attempting to shame, are interested in your welfare. If they do not care, then you are just another voice silenced, another mouth that does not need to be fed, another enemy who does not need to be beaten down, for he has chosen to lie down at their feet.
Stand up and be counted, or lie down and let fortune take you where it will. |
Stand Up by giving your vote to a bad choice?? you have lost me |
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10/26/2011 06:28:50 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by Basta:
silence can also be a sign of disapproval. |
Qui tacet consentis ΓΆ€” roughly "whoever remains silent, consents." I've seen this on voter-registration posters ... silence is not an effective form of disapproval in a majority-rule, representational democracy.
I think another proverb is more apt given the current situation: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease." |
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10/26/2011 06:47:06 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Qui tacet consentis ΓΆ€” roughly "whoever remains silent, consents." I've seen this on voter-registration posters ...
." |
You'v seen it on a voter registration poster????
that would be the same as Marlboro (Philip Morris) telling us smoking is healthy...and they used to say that |
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10/26/2011 07:41:10 PM · #146 |
| It was on a poster encouraging people to register and vote and make their voice heard -- to no longer remain silent. You have a problem with that? |
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10/26/2011 08:15:00 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
It was on a poster encouraging people to register and vote and make their voice heard -- to no longer remain silent. You have a problem with that? |
problem with what? you can do with your vote whatever you like. |
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10/26/2011 10:13:59 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by Basta:
Stand Up by giving your vote to a bad choice?? you have lost me |
By choosing not to vote at all unless a candidate lives up to your ideal, you have no influence on the outcome of most races you might influence. You will live under the government that those of us who do vote choose. We who elect your government understand that it is not ideal, but by making our marks on the ballot, we influence the course of our nation. The 42% of eligible American voters who do not vote ill be carried along the path that those of us who vote choose to take. You may feel more pure, but you have chosen not to help.
Message edited by author 2011-10-26 22:14:25. |
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10/26/2011 10:29:23 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Basta:
Stand Up by giving your vote to a bad choice?? you have lost me |
By choosing not to vote at all unless a candidate lives up to your ideal, you have no influence on the outcome of most races you might influence. You will live under the government that those of us who do vote choose. We who elect your government understand that it is not ideal, but by making our marks on the ballot, we influence the course of our nation. The 42% of eligible American voters who do not vote ill be carried along the path that those of us who vote choose to take. You may feel more pure, but you have chosen not to help. |
How is choosing between awful and terrible going to help? It is pretty apparent that neither party is going to stop the recession turning into the worst depression. With the politicians we have now around the world (not just in the US) no action will be taken to sort out the mess. So it does not matter who you vote for. |
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10/26/2011 10:42:31 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
Originally posted by Basta:
Stand Up by giving your vote to a bad choice?? you have lost me |
By choosing not to vote at all unless a candidate lives up to your ideal, you have no influence on the outcome of most races you might influence. You will live under the government that those of us who do vote choose. We who elect your government understand that it is not ideal, but by making our marks on the ballot, we influence the course of our nation. The 42% of eligible American voters who do not vote ill be carried along the path that those of us who vote choose to take. You may feel more pure, but you have chosen not to help. |
I'm not an idealist, I'm not looking for some saint - The issues is ALL the politicians are bought and paid for from where I sit and they do not represent me - I used to think well... sometimes they will represent me but I not longer believe that lie..... and I have better things to worry about that I DO have some control over.
I agree with you that not voting is means I get no say BUT voting is saying you agree with the slime of your picking and I just refuse to give them some credibility. You say I am not helping... I say at least I am not hurting (I understand, I used to be there). If you accept that it's one of the two parties your vote really goes to and not the politician in flavour... then I reject both parties - They are BOTH corrupt and I want nothing to do with either.
Would you like to die in a car or suv accident? To me I don't care which :-) |
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