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10/11/2011 04:15:43 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by clive_patric_nolan:
This thread has completely ruined my decades long held view that going to school in America is just like Porkys. Spoilsports. |
The choice you make to go to a Christian school (in any country) comes with the cost of basically no freedom when it comes to this type of action. That being said I feel like if I were to have gone to a public school this situation would have not come about because it is actually unnatural for a college student not to go out and "have fun." I know that I am a minority when it comes to being a virgin til marriage. I don't try and shove it down peoples faces that they should also do the same. In fact this is the first time I have ever released my feelings towards someone about this type of thing.
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10/11/2011 04:40:13 PM · #52 |
| Ah, the ageless question of knowing whether or not to help children and young adults avoid pitfalls through rules and regulations or to allow them to make their own mistakes even though some of the mistakes are life altering and irreversible. Looking foward to facing this with my own children...NOT! |
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10/11/2011 04:55:10 PM · #53 |
I'm a Christian and I goof up. When I do, I want folks to tell me. Tell me kindly, but tell me.
That said, if I were a young college kid living with another kid that was assigned to me, and who I just didn't like (but did love as a human), and who had told me that he was a better Christian than I, then that person woke me up at 1:am telling me he'd gone against his own promise and had sex (regardless of a baby or not), and wanted me to comfort him that he might get thrown out of school (and everyone would know of his sin)... and have to face the consequences of his sin... well...
I don't know that I'd feel charitable at the time.
Apparently, the OP is wanting advice on what to do now... that's the purpose of his post, right?
I think we should tell him what TO do, instead of what NOT TO do.
Life is hard. I don't think kids expect "parent" type responses when they ask other kids for advice. I think OP's response was quite understandable and appropriate for kid-to-kid relationships. (Yeah, I know 20 isn't REALLY a kid... but at 50, it seems so to me.)
Now, he can go from this point forward, what should OP do now?
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10/11/2011 05:02:10 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by LydiaToo:
Apparently, the OP is wanting advice on what to do now... that's the purpose of his post, right?
I think we should tell him what TO do, instead of what NOT TO do. |
But that's not the purpose of his post, and it's not what he asked for:
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
I want to know what everyone else's opinion on this is... Was I in the wrong? Was I too harsh? Should I have just nodded my head and said just a few little words like I normally do?
P.s. - I am open to criticism on how I acted so if you think I was in the wrong please let me know... I am always willing to try and improve my character. |
He's specifically asking for OUR opinion of HIS behavior towards his roommate.
R.
Message edited by author 2011-10-11 17:03:50.
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10/11/2011 06:13:55 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I was part of a class on helping hurting people just yesterday that was put on by a hospital chaplain and he gave some advice on how to deal with situations like this. His second point was "Suspend judgement". If judgement is present then compassion isn't. This doesn't mean you can't be aware of the self-inflicted issues he has brought on himself, but it sounds like he was looking for someone to lend support.
Good examples from the Bible are the Parable of the Good Samaritan (though the Samaritan and the Jew typically shunned each other, it was the Samaritan that showed compassion for the man on the road) or Jesus with the woman at the well in John 4. Though she had had 5 husbands (scandal in the day) and men and women were not to consort with each other, Jesus gave her compassion and caring despite this. |
Most here know that I have had some rather interesting exchanges with the Good Doc when discussing religious issues, but he truly is right on the money with this gem... reminds me a lot of the "Cast the first stone" analogy, and are words that should guide one's actions when confronted with issues such as this.
Good on ya Doc.
Ray |
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10/11/2011 06:16:58 PM · #56 |
I think this thread calls for one of my favorite quotes:
If love is the soul of Christian existence, it must be at the heart of every other Christian virtue. Thus, for example, justice without love is legalism; faith without love is ideology; hope without love is self-centeredness; forgiveness without love is self-abasement; fortitude without love is recklessness; generosity without love is extravagance; care without love is mere duty; fidelity without love is servitude. Every virtue is an expression of love. No virtue is really a virtue unless it is permeated, or informed, by love." - Fr. Richard P. McBrien
Love your roommate and the rest of your problems (and possibly through your help some of his problems) will go away :-) |
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10/11/2011 06:52:28 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Fiora:
I think this thread calls for one of my favorite quotes:
If love is the soul of Christian existence, it must be at the heart of every other Christian virtue. Thus, for example, justice without love is legalism; faith without love is ideology; hope without love is self-centeredness; forgiveness without love is self-abasement; fortitude without love is recklessness; generosity without love is extravagance; care without love is mere duty; fidelity without love is servitude. Every virtue is an expression of love. No virtue is really a virtue unless it is permeated, or informed, by love." - Fr. Richard P. McBrien
Love your roommate and the rest of your problems (and possibly through your help some of his problems) will go away :-) |
They probably signed a pact against roommate lovin'...but at least neither of them would get pregnant... |
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10/11/2011 07:00:00 PM · #58 |
Two things...
One - I am starting to feel awful for the way I acted. I have never (in my memory) acted as though I wanted to be good friends with the kid so it isn't like I was faking a friendship. That being said I still don't think I should have said what I said.
Two - I don't think all of you are getting the fact that even if this whole ordeal becomes something that we could potentially bring us closer... We will still never hang out with one another. I don't really do the things he does, nor does he do the things I do. I don't see eye to eye with his actions and he flaunts them as though they were good. He is just that type of person that I would not really enjoy being around. Unless he changes just about everything about himself I can't see myself going anywhere with him.
I think Bear and Ray both really nailed it though. I was hypocritical about the fact that "I can't stand the dude, but I hide it so well he actually speaks highly of me!"
My only issue now is... I have never told someone all the bad things that they do (unless they asked for it). To be honest I don't know if I have the courage to do that. The main reason I don't is that I don't want him to cause troubles with me while we are living together.
This whole situation is starting to irritate me because I don't know what to do. There are so many things that have been said on this thread, that it is overwhelming me knowing there are so many ways I could have handled the situation along with the ways I can now handle it.
I think I just need to get away from here... I get sucked into things that I can't seem to get out of when I live on campus.. Ugh... |
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10/11/2011 07:18:11 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
My only issue now is... I have never told someone all the bad things that they do (unless they asked for it). |
First, by telling him the bad (in your opinion) things he does, you're judging him again. That's about the last thing he needs.
I don't see why you are embroiling yourself in this situation with a guy you (as you admit yourself) barely tolerate. So why not leave it up to his family and real friends to sort out?
Sounds to me like you're desperate to let him know your feelings about the 'bad' lifestyle he's leading. |
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10/11/2011 07:28:41 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by JH:
I don't see why you are embroiling yourself in this situation with a guy you (as you admit yourself) barely tolerate. So why not leave it up to his family and real friends to sort out? |
I think in retrospect that I am more upset about how I acted than how he did... I am going to try and forget about it and hope he does not bring it back up with me. And... If he does... Well then I will just have to hope I don't say something stupid... |
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10/11/2011 07:35:56 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by JH:
I don't see why you are embroiling yourself in this situation with a guy you (as you admit yourself) barely tolerate. So why not leave it up to his family and real friends to sort out? |
I think in retrospect that I am more upset about how I acted than how he did... I am going to try and forget about it and hope he does not bring it back up with me. And... If he does... Well then I will just have to hope I don't say something stupid... |
Couldn't you just say "Sorry for snapping at you yesterday, I really regret it" and then leave it at that?
It will relieve your guilt by making amends without dragging out the issues behind it. |
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10/11/2011 07:55:31 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
Originally posted by JH:
I don't see why you are embroiling yourself in this situation with a guy you (as you admit yourself) barely tolerate. So why not leave it up to his family and real friends to sort out? |
I think in retrospect that I am more upset about how I acted than how he did... I am going to try and forget about it and hope he does not bring it back up with me. And... If he does... Well then I will just have to hope I don't say something stupid... |
That might work, or, you could just say, "Hey, I'm really sorry I reacted harshly the other night. I was just a little taken back that you confided in me because I didn't think we were that close of friends. I would really encourage you to confide in some of your closer friends -- they know you better and could help you better than I could."
the fact that you are on the Internet and he is texting tells me that you are not at the most conservative christian college in florida. :P |
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10/11/2011 10:04:27 PM · #63 |
Love is... sometimes hard when it must be delivered harshly to get someone's attention.
The roomie apparently agreed, in writing, that premarital sex was wrong (that's not under debate here).
And then, he did it. Apparently with several girls, and admitted it... perhaps even bragged a bit about it.
Then, when he thinks he "caught", he is afraid he's going to be kicked out of school for going against what he agreed to do (not do, actually). Then, we are to say that the person who holds him to his own standards is wrong?
Forget the fact that you don't agree with the standard. They've BOTH agreed, in writing, to the standard.
There is accountability in this world. I assume Roomie could read when he signed the paper. He was over eighteen. "Legal" to go to war for his country...
There is no "Judgement" here... it's a fact. He disobeyed the rules that are required to be at that place. In his own words. The roommate, our OP, also agreed to those rules. Let's leave Christianity out of it.
They both had to agree to the rule to be there. They are both there... in a VERY TINY LIVING SPACE. And they have to deal with each other.
Let's step back a bit:
If vomiting on the other person were against the rules, and the roommate did that... Well... how would the story read now, with vomit all over one's self?
I wonder...
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10/11/2011 10:54:35 PM · #64 |
Marko, first, take a deep breath, you did nothing wrong. My first roommate in college wasn't someone I had anything in common with either (although I didn't dislike her the way you seem to dislike your roommate). But we acted civilly towards each other. I think that is the only reasonable thing to do when you have to share space with someone you don't like. Also, the fact that he likes you is irrelevant: you don't like him, what he does, his choices, his outlook, his actions. Period. I do not believe you were acting hypocritically with him; on the contrary, you exhibited common courtesy under those conditions.
While it is true that you might have used kinder words, nothing you said was untrue. If you feel bad about how you expressed yourself, and the opportunity arises for you to address that, then you can apologize for your initial tone, but reiterate that you feel he needs to take responsibility for his actions, and he should consult with those who can actually help him formulate a plan. If he does not recognize that he is being a hypocrite and irresponsible, then there really is nothing you can do or say that will make a difference. |
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10/11/2011 10:56:54 PM · #65 |
^^ What she said. Wiser words were never spoken.
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10/11/2011 10:58:37 PM · #66 |
Lydia, I think you miss some of the nuance of the suggestions, at least mine.
I'm not saying that what the roomie did isn't wrong. It was. On a few levels. BUT, Mark isn't called to be judge and jury. Personally, I'm pretty sure his roommate already knows his actions were wrong, and if he doesn't he is at least patently aware of the uncomfortable consequences. Mark telling him what is already known and obvious will not help. In my view, as the Christlike example, Mark should listen, sympathized, and, if asked, counsel. This doesn't mean he needs to excuse, accept, or condone any actions that the two of them agreed to forgo.
There are so many more examples from the gospels that pertain. It's like shooting fish in a barrel to come up with these. Look at when the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus. Sure, we know the famous line, "let him without sin cast the first stone", but the real beauty of the story comes next:
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, âWoman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?â
âNo one, sir,â she said.
âThen neither do I condemn you,â Jesus declared. âGo now and leave your life of sin.â
He didn't excuse her sin. He told her to stop. But he did it with love and compassion.
I also think of the Prodigal Son. He certainly screwed his life up, but his father ran to him and embraced him when he returned. What redemption do we have at the end! What hope!
âThe older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, âLook! All these years Iâve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!â
ââMy son,â the father said, âyou are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.ââ
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10/11/2011 11:49:40 PM · #67 |
What  tanguera said. Your outburst was honest. Don't beat yourself up about it. What seems to be lost in all these advices is that in order to advance spiritually, no matter what your beliefs, you have to have a little trust in the inner man/woman.
I think what you said was a big step in that direction. |
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10/11/2011 11:55:34 PM · #68 |
I didn't read all the replies and don't know if this was addressed but:
...your friend lost me when he said "I think I got a girl pregnant and I scared I'm gonna get kicked out of school".
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10/12/2011 12:05:41 AM · #69 |
First off again I would like to thank each and every one of you who has posted here... Really it means sooo much that I can talk to people who don't have a side on things that can slap me into reality here and there.
It has been a quiet day and night. He is already sleeping which is not very normal as he tends to sleep at around 1:00 or 1:30am and it is only midnight as I am typing this... (rollover hmm wonder what the challenge will be..)
I don't know if he is mad at me or what so as of right now I am still debating on whether to wait on him to say something about it to me before I apologies or to confront him and apologies.
Doc - You are truly wise when it comes to religion and because of that I appreciate someone who is on the side of the "Godly" approach to step in and say something.
People who think I am in the wrong - Thank you for making me think in a way I normally wouldn't have! Bear and Ray more specifically.
People who think I was in the right - I am glad that I was not completely and utterly in the wrong (according to some of course).
I am always willing to attempt to become a better person. Changing my character for the better is always a goal for me. I have quite a ways to go for sure though. :)
Thank you again for all the replies to this. |
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10/12/2011 12:16:32 AM · #70 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Lydia, I think you miss some of the nuance of the suggestions, at least mine.
I'm not saying that what the roomie did isn't wrong. It was. On a few levels. BUT, Mark isn't called to be judge and jury. Personally, I'm pretty sure his roommate already knows his actions were wrong, and if he doesn't he is at least patently aware of the uncomfortable consequences. Mark telling him what is already known and obvious will not help. In my view, as the Christlike example, Mark should listen, sympathized, and, if asked, counsel. This doesn't mean he needs to excuse, accept, or condone any actions that the two of them agreed to forgo.
There are so many more examples from the gospels that pertain. It's like shooting fish in a barrel to come up with these. Look at when the woman caught in adultery was brought to Jesus. Sure, we know the famous line, "let him without sin cast the first stone", but the real beauty of the story comes next:
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, âWoman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?â
âNo one, sir,â she said.
âThen neither do I condemn you,â Jesus declared. âGo now and leave your life of sin.â ... |
Doc, I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, I didn't read all of the posts.
I'm just saying that in the world of OP and his roommate's peers... OP was impressively kind. Much kinder than I would have been, confronted with that ... at that time of day/night.
I'm certainly not judging anyone here.
I'm just saying that what we all think is "right" here is delivered... well... WELL after the fact.
We didn't have the (were confronted with the) situation to deal with at the time.
Now, it is ... quite clearly... AFTER THE FACT... and it needs to be dealt with as such.
I pray that the girl is not pregnant... that there is no child to be dealt with in this circumstance... and that all will learn from the situation as if there were, indeed, an innocent child to be taken up for.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 00:19:05. |
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10/12/2011 12:24:40 AM · #71 |
The whole calling it judging when you are honest and rebuke people is tiring to say the least. We have to sharpen each other and call others for their actions. That's what Christ and the others in the bible says to do. That guy needed to be told what he did because he was trying to find a way out in a way. He didn't confront his hypocritical behavior. Marco explained that he was.being a hypocrite and thus his consequences showed that. It might seem harsh but its necessary and the opposite of unloving.
Rebuking someone is exactly what he should have done. Research the bible and its there
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 00:46:51. |
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10/12/2011 12:56:28 AM · #72 |
Originally posted by mgarsteck:
...Rebuking someone is exactly what he should have done. Research the bible and its there |
... and this is where people like me get truly confused. I much preferred the views expressed by  DrAchoo in this regard, but that is an entirely different thread subject.
Ray
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10/12/2011 01:43:43 AM · #73 |
| It can be confusing yes it might appear to be so. However the Bible says to not rely on conventional wisdom and understanding. If you want to be a Christian, it takes a little commitment to understand things from a different perspective I guess. If you dont want to, thats fine too I guess. |
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10/12/2011 01:49:51 AM · #74 |
I can promise you that if my college roommate (like him or not) had woken me up and told me the downside of his over active sex life at ONE IN THE FRIGGIN MORNING I would not have responded with the milk of human kindness. What he did in having unprotected sex with a girl who he doesn't have a serious relationship with is not just a bad idea at a Christian school, it is a bad idea. Period.
The world is full of people we don't love. We love our family. We love our friends. We tolerated the random strangers we encounter in business, on the street, or who the college randomly assigns us as roommates. If we truly loved strangers as we loved our closest friends, we might be better Christians, but we would be pretty lousy friends. The bible may say we should not judge others, but if you can't start making judgments in college, why are you going to school? Learning how to gather facts, assess a situation and make a judgment is a whole lot of what schooling is all about.
So if you want to be a better person, and some guy who has a problem needs a shoulder to cry on, sure give him comfort and whatever wisdom you can. But there ought to be some judgment, and unless you have been out drinking all night it ought not be at one in the morning.
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 01:52:59. |
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10/12/2011 05:49:04 AM · #75 |
Why is this subject of biblical-style 'judgement' being brought up at all?
The guy knows what he did was wrong, OP knows what the guy did was wrong. There is no judgement needed. It's not a borderline case where the guy is acting as if he did nothing wrong and 'needs' someone to judge him.
In this case judgement is moot. It would be stating the obvious. The only purpose it would serve is to make the OP feel like he's got something off his chest. But it doesn't help the room-mate.
ETA: Unless I'm not understanding the usage of the word 'judgement' in this context?
Message edited by author 2011-10-12 05:51:23. |
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