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DPChallenge Forums >> Individual Photograph Discussion >> How do I achieve this level of quality??
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 06/13/2011 07:51:42 AM · #1
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?
06/13/2011 08:22:46 AM · #2
I think that image was all about the location and the time of day. The lighting is spectacular, it seems to be just before sunrise with a nice amount of morning fog. The location is great and the photog thought about the composition. Nice foreground leading me through to the hills and the colorful sky. Looks to be very light handed in the post with it likely just being cleaned up a bit and polishing it off, nothing over the top here.

06/13/2011 08:32:22 AM · #3
Sort of off topic but ISO 200 shouldnt be your lowest ISO.
I have the 450D and it goes to ISO 100. I'm sure you have your "highlight tone priority" set to "on" in your custom menus - that makes the lowest ISO usable at 200 and changes the font on the LCD screen to an almost italics look.
 06/13/2011 08:37:05 AM · #4
Originally posted by Silent-Shooter:
Sort of off topic but ISO 200 shouldnt be your lowest ISO.
I have the 450D and it goes to ISO 100. I'm sure you have your "highlight tone priority" set to "on" in your custom menus - that makes the lowest ISO usable at 200 and changes the font on the LCD screen to an almost italics look.


Your correct, it does say in the spec iso is 100-6400

The main differences is that photo was taken on a Canon EOS 5D Mark II, Tamron 17-35/2.8-4.0, a 70-200 is not really suited to landscapes. Also you have to think about the light quality, which makes a big difference.

06/13/2011 08:39:32 AM · #5
A couple of other things to consider - mirror lock up, which will help prevent any shake, and use of hyper-focal distance which will maximise your available depth of field.
 06/13/2011 08:43:46 AM · #6
I'll bet the photographer had that location planned out in advance, and made a visit at the right time to catch the light and fog just how he wanted it.
 06/13/2011 09:00:17 AM · #7
This photo is also *very* well processed for the web. The resizing has been done perfectly, retaining a lot of fine detail while showing almost no resizing artifacts.
 06/13/2011 09:08:32 AM · #8
Silent-Shooter Thanks. I do have Highlight Priority enabled so that solves ISO issue.
Sevlow 70-200mm is my sharpest lens hence I assumed it should give me highest quality (putting aside anything to do with composition and subject).
SaraR I use the the LCD screen when using tripod, I think that locks the mirror (?) I need to remember about DOF, thanks.

All - I think the light that a few have mentioned is the most important aspect (I have assumed that he did set the shot in advance and knew when and where to take it).

Message edited by author 2011-06-13 09:10:05.
 06/13/2011 09:19:10 AM · #9
Ironically I was wondering the same about this image.

While its not PC to compliment a camera for an image the Mark 2 can produce some tack sharp results. I have seen results of my own and the mark 2 at the same event and I was blown away by what I couldn't produce no matter how hard I tried.

The sky of the picture you show as an example looks slightly off to me, don't know why (am I only the one seeing that random purple area? It's probably natural). kirbic's right it is very well processed for the web.



06/13/2011 09:36:02 AM · #10
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Ironically I was wondering the same about this image.

While its not PC to compliment a camera for an image the Mark 2 can produce some tack sharp results. I have seen results of my own and the mark 2 at the same event and I was blown away by what I couldn't produce no matter how hard I tried.

The sky of the picture you show as an example looks slightly off to me, don't know why (am I only the one seeing that random purple area? It's probably natural). kirbic's right it is very well processed for the web.


I can see the purple in the sky, but to me it looks like smog. What I noticed, with dismay, is the clipped red in the poppies. Both pics are mostly made by the awesome light & by the photog's awareness of it. The Cherry Trees has a very nice "how I did it" narrative. Thanks for the links.

06/13/2011 09:46:31 AM · #11
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Ironically I was wondering the same about this image.

While its not PC to compliment a camera for an image the Mark 2 can produce some tack sharp results. I have seen results of my own and the mark 2 at the same event and I was blown away by what I couldn't produce no matter how hard I tried.

The sky of the picture you show as an example looks slightly off to me, don't know why (am I only the one seeing that random purple area? It's probably natural). kirbic's right it is very well processed for the web.
Thanks for the link. Amazing image! I am soooo envious !! As it turned out it was taken hand-held at F4! And JPEG, not RAW. That's interesting!
Re 5D MKII - yes, $3,500 would get me the same camera and lens as he has BUT that's a lot of money! I'll have to think about this one.
Re taking photos while flying - I will have to give this one a miss! :)
 06/13/2011 09:59:15 AM · #12
Originally posted by MargaretN:

Sevlow 70-200mm is my sharpest lens hence I assumed it should give me highest quality (putting aside anything to do with composition and subject).

All - I think the light that a few have mentioned is the most important aspect (I have assumed that he did set the shot in advance and knew when and where to take it).


Try your 15-85 or even your 50mm f1.8 - you might be suprised.

Tuscany is famed for it's excellent light so he has an advantage there as well.

Message edited by author 2011-06-13 09:59:30.
 06/13/2011 10:19:54 AM · #13
One additional thought on all of this... it is true that the 5D, 5DII and 1-series cameras have a high level of "acuity," that is, they need very little sharpening on the RAW data. The mid- and entry-level SLRs have always had a "softer" look to the RAW files out of the box.
Nontheless, at the resolution posted, there's no reason that this level of detail can't be obtained from a modern entry-level SLR.
It's interesting that it was shot in JPEG, and that is certainly the reason for the blown reds. I fought this problem in my early years with the 10D. The histogram *will* tell you when you've blown a single channel if you've enabled the RGB histogram. The luminosity histogram will not tell you, nor will the "blinking highlights" since they are based on luminosity. If you shoot RAW, the situation is almost always recoverable, but with JPEG, that data is gone.
 06/13/2011 10:36:51 AM · #14
Originally posted by pixelpig:
...What I noticed, with dismay, is the clipped red in the poppies...


Noob question: How do I recognize that the red are clipped/blown?
 06/13/2011 11:13:27 AM · #15
Originally posted by markwiley:
Originally posted by pixelpig:
...What I noticed, with dismay, is the clipped red in the poppies...


Noob question: How do I recognize that the red are clipped/blown?


If you don't notice then maybe they're not?
 06/13/2011 11:32:18 AM · #16
here is something nobody mentioned..

example images are taken in early morning, light is perfect, and they seem to be taken at some elevation ( I know this for sure about "cherry trees" because I know that location) Mountain air in the morning has that crisp feel, and it is not the same in the lowland swamp..

maybe someone else can explain this better, but I think it is to do with a colder air and density ?????
 06/13/2011 01:49:40 PM · #17
Originally posted by MargaretN:

SaraR I use the the LCD screen when using tripod, I think that locks the mirror (?) I need to remember about DOF, thanks.


Err, you'd have to explicitly change menu settings to lock the mirror
 06/13/2011 01:53:16 PM · #18
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Ironically I was wondering the same about this image.

While its not PC to compliment a camera for an image the Mark 2 can produce some tack sharp results. I have seen results of my own and the mark 2 at the same event and I was blown away by what I couldn't produce no matter how hard I tried.

The sky of the picture you show as an example looks slightly off to me, don't know why (am I only the one seeing that random purple area? It's probably natural). kirbic's right it is very well processed for the web.


Hmm. So there's obviously something that I'm doing wrong (and let me say it, although I've been messing about with cameras for a while, I'm still a newbie). I have a 5D Mark II, I too struggle to get sharpness in pictures such as this...so I'd be very keen to figure out what the pros do!
 06/13/2011 06:00:18 PM · #19
Thanks for more comments. Especially the last one will save me a lot of money in the long run :) Other reasons I prefer to stay with 550D are the weight and no old fashioned CF cards. Any reason why 5D does not use SD cards? Looking for the best light to get the best quality is the best advice to follow (and spend some time in the highlands of the southern Europe, learn hang gliding etc :)

PS This thread made me read more tutorials on 1x. It is fascinating how some great photos came about. In most landscape cases skill, knowledge and preparation are combined with pure luck (unusual fantastic light, amazing weather) and are much more important than hardware or software. All my ribbon entries so far where accidental - they were not the shots I went out to get! The weather created great opportunities and I was there to capture them. I just looked out of the window - incredible dense fog out there. If only I can get the sun rays through it at the right place when it starts clearing!!

Message edited by author 2011-06-13 18:30:33.
 06/13/2011 06:22:31 PM · #20
Originally posted by MargaretN:
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?


You are shooting between F11 and F16? You will lose sharpness when you step your F-stop down that much. The "sweet" spot for sharpness is usually 2 stops above the widest opening.
 06/13/2011 06:35:32 PM · #21
Originally posted by franktheyank:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?


You are shooting between F11 and F16? You will lose sharpness when you step your F-stop down that much. The "sweet" spot for sharpness is usually 2 stops above the widest opening.
Well, that's what I thought I should do but most of my recent shots where hand held at F4 as there was no time to get the tripod (that will explain the softness problem) From what you are saying I should shoot at F5.6 minimum on my 15-85mm lens at 15mm? I will try that. Will ISO 800 be still OK?
 06/13/2011 06:41:50 PM · #22
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by franktheyank:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?


You are shooting between F11 and F16? You will lose sharpness when you step your F-stop down that much. The "sweet" spot for sharpness is usually 2 stops above the widest opening.
Well, that's what I thought I should do but most of my recent shots where hand held at F4 as there was no time to get the tripod (that will explain the softness problem) From what you are saying I should shoot at F5.6 minimum on my 15-85mm lens at 15mm? I will try that. Will ISO 800 be still OK?


You should experiment with different f-stops and see what works best with your gear. If your camera will handle 800 ISO without too much noise, then go for it. Otherwise get out your tripod and shoot at 100.
 06/13/2011 06:47:52 PM · #23
Originally posted by franktheyank:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?


You are shooting between F11 and F16? You will lose sharpness when you step your F-stop down that much. The "sweet" spot for sharpness is usually 2 stops above the widest opening.


That's normally true, but really doesn't take the creative use of aperture into account. If you're shooting a landscape with story telling elements in the foreground, interest in the middle of the frame and you want a sharp background as well an aperture two stops up from the widest is not going to cut it without some pretty selective sharpening in PP. It depends largely on the hyper-focal distance and whats closest to the camera that needs to be in focus as well as the balance of the scene.

Yes, there is a difference between getting everything in the scene in focus front to back and getting everything at it's sharpest with any given lens/camera combo. If you have a 2.8 lens and stop it down two stops to f/5.6 the things that are in focus in that scene will often be the sharpest they possibly can get with that lens, but you will not achieve what most landscape photographers are going for which is the best CONSISTENT focus throughout the scene. You want everything to be in focus with the greatest DOF even if that means shooting at an aperture that isn't THE sharpest possible with that lens.

Dave

Message edited by author 2011-06-13 19:02:17.
 06/13/2011 07:02:31 PM · #24
Originally posted by DCNUTTER:
Originally posted by franktheyank:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?


You are shooting between F11 and F16? You will lose sharpness when you step your F-stop down that much. The "sweet" spot for sharpness is usually 2 stops above the widest opening.


That's normally true, but really doesn't take the creative use of aperture into account. If you're shooting a landscape with story telling elements in the foreground, interest in the middle of the frame and you want a sharp background as well an aperture two stops up from the widest is not going to cut it without some pretty selective sharpening in PP. It depends largely on the hyper-focal distance and whats closest to the camera that needs to be in focus as well as the balance of the scene.

Yes, there is a difference between getting everything in the scene in focus front to back and getting everything at it's sharpest with any given lens/camera combo. If you have a 2.8 lens and stop it down two stops to f/5.6 the things that are in focus in that scene will often be the sharpest they possibly can get with that lens, but you will not achieve what most landscape photographers are going for which is the best CONSISTENT focus throughout the scene. You want everything to be in focus with the greatest DOF even if that means shooting at an aperture that isn't THE sharpest possible with that lens. If you should a landscape at f/5.6 you'd have to focus pretty far into the scene before you would get consistent focus throughout the frame which defeats the purpose of a landscape shot. You would get plenty in focus, but areas possibly in front or back would start to noticeably drop out and get much softer. That looks pretty un-natural so you're better off shooting at f/16 - f/22, getting the best focus overall and tightening it up in post.

Dave


I agree with all that you said Dave. If you look at the image that was refered to at the top of this post you will see a very sharp foreground and and a background that isn't. That was the type of image that MargaretN was trying to achieve.
 06/13/2011 07:15:59 PM · #25
Originally posted by MargaretN:
Originally posted by franktheyank:
Originally posted by MargaretN:
No matter what I do my photos aren't as sharp and do not have the fine detail as this one:
//1x.com/photo/42414/all/latest-additions/tuscan-spring

I am using a tripod, F11 to F16, 70-200mm f4 sharp lens, ISO200 (lowest on my camera 550D), remote or self-timer.

What are the secret ingredients for the outstanding quality of this photograph? How much is it in the setup and how much in PP?


You are shooting between F11 and F16? You will lose sharpness when you step your F-stop down that much. The "sweet" spot for sharpness is usually 2 stops above the widest opening.
Well, that's what I thought I should do but most of my recent shots where hand held at F4 as there was no time to get the tripod (that will explain the softness problem) From what you are saying I should shoot at F5.6 minimum on my 15-85mm lens at 15mm? I will try that. Will ISO 800 be still OK?


It's important to also note here that aperture is only part of the equation. Zoom lenses are often softer on one end the other focal range or both. Therefore even if you step down two stops from the widest aperture it depends on the focal length you're shooting and compared shots with the same lens might vary noticibly. I have the 15-85mm as well and really love it Margaret. If you want to see how f/5.6 looks at 15mm and want to make sure everything in the landscape is in focus the hyper-focal distance on the crop body is 6.92 feet..so call it 7 foot. That means if you set the focus ring on the lens to 7 ft, anything beyond that point will be in focus and you will also have a near limit of 3.48 feet in front of your focus point that should be in focus. Anything that it is in the frame closer to the camera than 3.48 feet will begin to fall out of focus.

Dave
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