DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register) 
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Do troll 1, 2, and 3 votes affect outcome?
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 63, (reverse)
AuthorThread
 05/28/2011 11:08:21 AM · #1
I did a little spreadsheet based off of the famous "calculate my last score" formula.

I wanted to see if a vote of 1, 2 or 3, affected the final outcome in a challege. (Top four finishers only)

I did the current three challenges on the front page. I found that Light on White and Sunrise/Sunset did not change. (scores did but place did not.)

However, on the Flowers challenge, votes of 1, 2, and 3 DID change the outcome. From my calculations, the 4th place entry by Dr. Achoo would have placed 3rd if all 1, 2, and 3s were thrown out on all the top four finishers.

I included 1, 2, and 3 votes in the calculations because I felt that any top 4 entry, IMO, did not deserve a 1, 2, or 3. YOU MAY FEEL DIFFERENT. This is just MY OPINION.

I may do this on other past challenges as time permits !

Here is the sheet. PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I HAVE MADE AN ERROR !! I have A.D.D. and am Dyslexic !


05/28/2011 11:17:07 AM · #2
More detailed stats.

I have to say that this is a tired complaint. Just accept your score.

ETA: What if Voter Joe feels those images do not deserve an 8, 9, or 10? Toss those out as well.

Message edited by author 2011-05-28 11:24:01.
 05/28/2011 11:28:45 AM · #3
If they don't, they should, and more people should give them.
 05/28/2011 11:35:19 AM · #4
It's not a complaint....just my observation.

When we talk about this we usually say...but trolls get everybody evenly so it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by bspurgeon:
More detailed stats.

I have to say that this is a tired complaint. Just accept your score.

ETA: What if Voter Joe feels those images do not deserve an 8, 9, or 10? Toss those out as well.
05/28/2011 11:45:37 AM · #5
Originally posted by kenskid:
It's not a complaint....just my observation.

When we talk about this we usually say...but trolls get everybody evenly so it doesn't matter.





OK. I do not think that the Anal Trolls should have gaven this image 75 1, 2, and 3 votes without giving the same number to the Flower entries.
 05/28/2011 11:50:24 AM · #6
Did you notice that if you remove all of the 8, 9 & 10 votes from the Flowers challenge that the finishing order changes also?

1st doesn't change
4th moves up to 2nd
2nd is now 3rd
5th is now 4th
3rd drops to 5th

It's not a surprise that every vote has a mathematical impact but the 1, 2 and 3s are no less valid than the 8, 9 and 10s.

I think we should all unite and rally against the Polyanna's that are giving the unfair high votes. I don't think they should be allowed to skew my average! :-)
05/28/2011 11:51:57 AM · #7
You opinion is VALID....read my OP where I say, "YOU MAY FEEL DIFFERENT, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION".

Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Originally posted by kenskid:
It's not a complaint....just my observation.

When we talk about this we usually say...but trolls get everybody evenly so it doesn't matter.





OK. I do not think that the Anal Trolls should have gaven this image 75 1, 2, and 3 votes without giving the same number to the Flower entries.
05/28/2011 11:55:58 AM · #8
It could go both ways. A challenge a couple years ago I got two 2's and knock me out of third just before roll over, Yet if I hadn't voted the images above me 6 plus I would had ribboned too. The spread between 6th and 3rd was only .0388. If people who gave it a 10 would had given a 7 it wouldn't had been in the top 10. So the so called troll votes really didn't matter.
 05/28/2011 11:57:12 AM · #9

i think we should model the site after little league sports and give everyone who enters a ribbon, so no one feels left out.

05/28/2011 11:58:47 AM · #10
Originally posted by kenskid:
You opinion is VALID....read my OP where I say, "YOU MAY FEEL DIFFERENT, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION".


This is the basic problem. The fact that you feel 1, 2 and 3 votes are bad is your bias and that̢۪s Ok. However not everyone feels the same way. I think that all participants need to be cautioned to feel free to reflect their bias on the votes they cast but don̢۪t project it on the votes they receive. It will be an exercise in frustration. We are better off understanding that everyone is different and they all have valid opinions.

Of course this is just my opinion :-)
 05/28/2011 12:02:15 PM · #11
I like how you state that it's just opinion and not complaint, but then use a term like "troll", which instantly devalues your assertions.

What's the point of even bringing something like this up if it's not to try and put some kind of "voting 1-3 is bad!!" mentality into people's heads? Hmm?

Your opinion is certainly valid, but be honest and up-front with it instead of just masking it behind some lame attempt at innocent number crunching.
 05/28/2011 12:02:34 PM · #12
Originally posted by DJWoodward:

This is the basic problem. The fact that you feel 1, 2 and 3 votes are bad is your bias and that̢۪s Ok. However not everyone feels the same way. I think that all participants need to be cautioned to feel free to reflect their bias on the votes they cast but don̢۪t project it on the votes they receive. It will be an exercise in frustration. We are better off understanding that everyone is different and they all have valid opinions.

Of course this is just my opinion :-)


Sorry, this is a fact!
 05/28/2011 12:09:03 PM · #13
OMFG !!!!

MOVE THIS TO RANT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 05/28/2011 12:10:57 PM · #14
Ken, I understand your rationale, and I agree that in a tightly-contested challenge a few, even one or two very low votes might change positions. But... and you knew there was a but... the votes you are removing are, in all of the cases on the "Flowers..." challenge, part of the normal distribution of votes. They are not statistical outliers. So, where do we draw the line at arbitrarily removing votes? If something scores 7.0, does it "deserve" any votes of 1? 2? 3? 4? The answer is, it deserves what it gets. There will be a (very) few actual troll votes; we know it happens. We also know that DPC has without any doubt the best and most effective system for dealing with them, and voting here is more fair than any other site I have seen. Period.
 05/28/2011 12:13:27 PM · #15
Originally posted by kenskid:
OMFG !!!!

MOVE THIS TO RANT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!


What did I miss? Did you only want us to respond if we agreed with you?
 05/28/2011 12:19:26 PM · #16
It was just a simple observation. Removing all 1,2,3 votes from the top 4 finishers did change one outcome...nothing more...nothing less.

I didn't expect the site to change anything....I didn't want the site to change anything.... It was only something I did to see if low votes on TOP images had an affect...

Originally posted by kirbic:
Ken, I understand your rationale, and I agree that in a tightly-contested challenge a few, even one or two very low votes might change positions. But... and you knew there was a but... the votes you are removing are, in all of the cases on the "Flowers..." challenge, part of the normal distribution of votes. They are not statistical outliers. So, where do we draw the line at arbitrarily removing votes? If something scores 7.0, does it "deserve" any votes of 1? 2? 3? 4? The answer is, it deserves what it gets. There will be a (very) few actual troll votes; we know it happens. We also know that DPC has without any doubt the best and most effective system for dealing with them, and voting here is more fair than any other site I have seen. Period.
05/28/2011 12:21:33 PM · #17
DJ....this is why the OMFG.....

I didn't expect a reply like this. Just move it or lock the thread...I don't what to get the crap kicked out of me for posting an observation.

Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I like how you state that it's just opinion and not complaint, but then use a term like "troll", which instantly devalues your assertions.

What's the point of even bringing something like this up if it's not to try and put some kind of "voting 1-3 is bad!!" mentality into people's heads? Hmm?

Your opinion is certainly valid, but be honest and up-front with it instead of just masking it behind some lame attempt at innocent number crunching.
05/28/2011 12:23:05 PM · #18
I didn't want to put any MENTALITY into anyone's head. I really didn't expect this kind of reaction...but of course I was wrong.

EDIT: I'm done looking at and replying to this....so long to this thread.

Originally posted by K10DGuy:
I like how you state that it's just opinion and not complaint, but then use a term like "troll", which instantly devalues your assertions.

What's the point of even bringing something like this up if it's not to try and put some kind of "voting 1-3 is bad!!" mentality into people's heads? Hmm?

Your opinion is certainly valid, but be honest and up-front with it instead of just masking it behind some lame attempt at innocent number crunching.


Message edited by author 2011-05-28 12:26:28.
 05/28/2011 12:26:17 PM · #19
Next time don't use inflammatory terms in your title :P
 05/28/2011 12:27:24 PM · #20
The troll votes that are bad are the ones who are actually very good photographers but vote down their competition in hopes of lifting their own standing. Those are the people who are sad little people in my opinion.
 05/28/2011 12:27:35 PM · #21
Just out of curiosity I had a look at the white on white challenge. It seems to me the number of 8-10 votes a person gets effects the outcome much more than the number of 1-3's a person gets. I only looked at the top 20 entries and most of them received only 0-1 one's but the number of 10's 9's and 8's varied widely. So I suppose if you want to make a difference on who gets in the top 10 you should make sure your favorites get really good votes from you.
 05/28/2011 12:39:06 PM · #22
Just a personal opinion of course, but, I find it much easier to really like something then to really hate it.

Just like I always tell my kids.. try to never say I hate something.. its not a word to use lightly. But its not like I ever tell them try not to say I love something.
 05/28/2011 12:39:51 PM · #23
At one time, there might have been mention of algorithms (viewable by admin only) which detected unusual voting patterns. Before the last DPL season, some of that activity was cleaned up. I mean beyond the pattern votes and insufficent % votes that are scrubbed at rollover.
 05/28/2011 01:34:55 PM · #24
Originally posted by chazoe:
The troll votes that are bad are the ones who are actually very good photographers but vote down their competition in hopes of lifting their own standing. Those are the people who are sad little people in my opinion.


Have you ever seen real evidence of one of these "very good photographer trolls"? Although it could happen theoretically I doubt that they exist.

The reason I say this is that I believe that the number people who can consistently predict that they will score well enough to bother trolling and the number of people who would cheat (trolls) are both very small populations. I doubt that there is any overlap in these groups.

05/28/2011 02:13:21 PM · #25
I try to understand the effort of all these math calculation and their esoteric meaning.

It is a tired issue.
Some of you refer to "trolls" as extraterrestrials.
I call them "people who do not like my pictures".

I made a little effort to count from my profile page the "offensive" and the good marks given to me the last 8 challenges:
106 of 1,2 and 3 marks
115 of 8,9 and 10 marks

Almost even. I am sure that some of you reading this voted on my images.
If you find that you gave me a 1,2 or 3 mark how do you call yourself?
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 10/13/2025 02:11:06 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 10/13/2025 02:11:06 AM EDT.