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01/27/2011 07:31:06 PM · #976 |
| And a straw man argument is unbecoming of you. |
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01/27/2011 07:43:03 PM · #977 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, it was a quick attempt at coming up with the "ignorence and uneducation" quotient for those backward African countries. I'm open to a better metric. Maybe the blackness of their skin? |
It's a well known fact that many people and cultures in African countries are victims of the on-going wars, tyrannies and archaic caste/class systems that plague the continent. To turn it into an issue of skin color is, well, insane.
Religion struck really nicely in Europe during the middle ages as well, when much of that continent was going through horrible caste systems leading to many poor, uneducated and ignorant people. Most of those people were white. Am I using a better metric for you?
I'm certainly not saying ONLY uneducated and poor are susceptible to religious conversion/whatever, but I am saying that it's definitely a class of people that is targeted BIG TIME.
You may be an educated and intelligent person Achoo, but you're not always one for common sense and reason :P
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 19:43:27. |
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01/27/2011 07:43:18 PM · #978 |
| Well, I protest a bit too much, but I thought the Western ethnocentric, look-down-your-nose-and-cluck at other cultures was passe in liberal circles. Seems to me to be alive and well. |
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01/27/2011 07:44:03 PM · #979 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, I protest a bit too much, but I thought the Western ethnocentric, look-down-your-nose-and-cluck at other cultures was passe in liberal circles. Seems to me to be alive and well. |
Who's looking down their nose at anyone? |
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01/27/2011 07:44:50 PM · #980 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Religion struck really nicely in Europe during the middle ages as well, when much of that continent was going through horrible caste systems leading to many poor, uneducated and ignorant people. Most of those people were white. Am I using a better metric for you? |
So you are saying that before the middle ages when we were all doing much better there was far less religion in the world? You also forget your history and the fact Christianity became popular in Europe long before the Middle ages.
Message edited by author 2011-01-27 19:47:50. |
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01/27/2011 07:45:55 PM · #981 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, I protest a bit too much, but I thought the Western ethnocentric, look-down-your-nose-and-cluck at other cultures was passe in liberal circles. Seems to me to be alive and well. |
Who's looking down their nose at anyone? |
Ya, you're right. Nothing of the sort is happening around here... |
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01/27/2011 07:46:04 PM · #982 |
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01/27/2011 07:46:08 PM · #983 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Religion struck really nicely in Europe during the middle ages as well, when much of that continent was going through horrible caste systems leading to many poor, uneducated and ignorant people. Most of those people were white. Am I using a better metric for you? |
So you are saying that before the middle ages when we were all doing much better there was far less religion in the world? |
I was using it as an example. What are you on!? lol. |
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01/27/2011 07:49:03 PM · #984 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Religion struck really nicely in Europe during the middle ages as well, when much of that continent was going through horrible caste systems leading to many poor, uneducated and ignorant people. Most of those people were white. Am I using a better metric for you? |
So you are saying that before the middle ages when we were all doing much better there was far less religion in the world? |
I was using it as an example. What are you on!? lol. |
Well, two things. I think the % of relgious people in Europe would not have changed much. Their particular religion, possibly. But I edited too late the fact that Christianity really came to prominence in 300 to 600 AD which is long before the Feudal system. |
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01/27/2011 07:57:05 PM · #985 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, I protest a bit too much, but I thought the Western ethnocentric, look-down-your-nose-and-cluck at other cultures was passe in liberal circles. Seems to me to be alive and well. |
Who's looking down their nose at anyone? |
Ya, you're right. Nothing of the sort is happening around here... |
That's right.
I know you intended sarcasm, but I think your optics are skewed by your closeness to the issue. |
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01/27/2011 07:59:27 PM · #986 |
| Whats wrong with looking down your nose? Obama does it all the time. |
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01/27/2011 08:09:22 PM · #987 |
We should set a one day limit on any topic of conversation. I'll summarize below and you guys can do the same (and have the last word) and we can call it a day ready to discuss something else another day.
To summarize, I will argue to my last breath that Christians represent the spectrum of intelligence and education in the world. To assume that one only becomes a Christian because of foolishness (listed as many words here today such as "ignorance") or parental indoctrination is to ignore the evidence of history, personal account, and demographics. Africa is an example where the growth of Christianity is far too explosive to blame on family coercion. Despite the assertion that it is because of European missionaries, the explosion is mainly due to African-to-African evangelism. I would encourage my friends on the other side of the debate to give their opponents some credit for rationality and intelligence; to not speak down to them or discount their conversions as so much mumbo-jumbo.
I rest my case. |
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01/27/2011 09:38:41 PM · #988 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
We should set a one day limit on any topic of conversation. I'll summarize below and you guys can do the same (and have the last word) and we can call it a day ready to discuss something else another day.
To summarize, I will argue to my last breath that Christians represent the spectrum of intelligence and education in the world. To assume that one only becomes a Christian because of foolishness (listed as many words here today such as "ignorance") or parental indoctrination is to ignore the evidence of history, personal account, and demographics. Africa is an example where the growth of Christianity is far too explosive to blame on family coercion. Despite the assertion that it is because of European missionaries, the explosion is mainly due to African-to-African evangelism. I would encourage my friends on the other side of the debate to give their opponents some credit for rationality and intelligence; to not speak down to them or discount their conversions as so much mumbo-jumbo.
I rest my case. |
Ever heard of a fad? They spread like wildfire. Everybody's doing it!
Hitch that to empty promises about eternal salvation and personal redemption and WOW look at it go! |
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01/28/2011 12:29:55 PM · #989 |
| A mouse is a mouse my friend. |
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01/28/2011 02:17:51 PM · #990 |
| Oh wait, that's mouth. sorry. |
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01/28/2011 02:28:08 PM · #991 |
Originally posted by Mousie:
Ever heard of a fad? They spread like wildfire. Everybody\'s doing it!
Hitch that to empty promises about eternal salvation and personal redemption and WOW look at it go! |
If Christianity is a fad, it'll only take a few years to go away completely. I give Christianity no more than 10 years before people realize the empty promises.
What's more stupid than a Christian? A disco dancing Christian. Talk about fads.
 Nullix<= doesn't do disco, so can't be that dumb.
BTW, didn't the Sadducees and the Pharisees think Christianity was a fad? |
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01/28/2011 02:44:08 PM · #992 |
I'm blanking on the source of the quote, but wasn't there a Jewish priest who said as much? Don't worry, if Jesus isn't real, it's a fad that will burn itself out like so many other proclaimed messiahs, but if it's from God it will not be stopped. I wish I could remember the source.
Message edited by author 2011-01-28 14:44:24. |
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01/28/2011 03:03:48 PM · #993 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
... if ... isn't real, it's a fad that will burn itself out like so many other proclaimed messiahs, but if it's from God it will not be stopped. |
So ... on that basis it seems Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Wicca, Jainism, Rastafarianism, etc. are also all "real" and derived from God ... so many ways of delivering the same message, competing for space on the bookstore shelves ... :-( |
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01/28/2011 03:19:39 PM · #994 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm blanking on the source of the quote, but wasn't there a Jewish priest who said as much? Don't worry, if Jesus isn't real, it's a fad that will burn itself out like so many other proclaimed messiahs, but if it's from God it will not be stopped. I wish I could remember the source. |
Ah yes, the ol' "If it lasts, it must be true" argument. lol. I'm sure every religion and mythology in the history of earth believed itself to be true to this extent in the glory days. That the earth's religions that are around today are helped immensely by an unprecedented global information network means nothing, of course. This god, that god. They were all infallible at one time. Some last longer than others. They all die eventually. |
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01/28/2011 03:35:13 PM · #995 |
Gee guys, I'm amazed that the argument didn't sway you with it's sheer power. I was just bringing it up as an interesting tidbit for Nullix, not as a point for you to contend with...
At first I thought the quote came from historical documents like Eusebius, but now I'm thinking it may be in Acts. Hmm.
We're just being loose here. I mean, does calling Christianity a "fad" even need a reply? I don't think so.
Message edited by author 2011-01-28 15:37:21. |
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01/28/2011 03:49:06 PM · #996 |
Found it!
But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: âMen of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.â
It's Acts 5. |
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01/31/2011 10:53:37 PM · #997 |
| Here's a stupid question I have been afraid to ask. Since it's coming up soon, do other Christian denominations practice Lent. Giving something up for 40 days, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent. Or is it just us Catholics? |
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01/31/2011 11:39:52 PM · #998 |
Originally posted by Nullix:
Here's a stupid question I have been afraid to ask. Since it's coming up soon, do other Christian denominations practice Lent. Giving something up for 40 days, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent. Or is it just us Catholics? |
I think other denominations do, but not all. Probably the closer you get to Catholicism, the more chance you have (Lutherans, Anglicans, etc.) To some it's a private thing. I practice Lent, but the church I attend does not and neither do many of the members I attend with. |
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01/31/2011 11:44:18 PM · #999 |
According to Penny, Church of England/Anglican "does" Lent, or did when she was growing up anyway, but not as strictly as Catholics. I know from my own experience, in America, that "high" Episcopal (basically our version of Anglican) does Lent too.
R. |
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02/01/2011 07:25:41 AM · #1000 |
I've been pretty swamped for a while but I have a question that I'd like to hear some views on.
How should a Christian view the sacred obligations of other faiths? Are they truly sacred obligations, or are they superstitions?
I recall very clearly my old (deeply Christian) school teacher trying to explain that other religions' beliefs were superstitions, and that he'd been lucky to have fallen into the one true faith (without having had to try out any others) and that everyone else should convert. He was an otherwise intelligent man (reflecting DrAchoo's earlier comments) - but in this regard he could not see the hypocrisy of his advice.
I suspect that, like my old teacher, many Christians have a blindspot insofar as they respect Christian tenets, but they cut their hair and shave, they work on Saturdays, and they eat beef - even though those things are strictly regulated by other religions. They have found the one true faith and other religions are mere superstitions...
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