Cloud catalogs - DPChallenge Forums

11/07/2010 11:57:36 PM · #1

I wondered if anybody has tried to create a cloud catalog. I think about these things often in Eugene in the fall and spring as the cloud formations can be wonderful. Today was one of those days with the clouds being beautifully textured with lots of tones ranging from white to black. I went out and shot some of them. I wish I had a location close to me with unimpeded views in all directions, but I don't. I'll have to find those because sometimes you want to capture something at sunset and you only have minutes before it's gone.

Anyway, I wondered if people had tips. I think to do it properly you will probably have to match a photo where you want to replace the sky with a cloud shot done at roughly the same time in roughly the same direction. What about the horizon? Should I always shoot level? How does one make the replacement as realistic as possible?

I'd love to hear if anybody has any experience with this or knows of some links where this is discussed.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

11/08/2010 10:55:30 AM · #2

Bump for the morning.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

11/08/2010 11:13:08 AM · #3

I can't help myself...

To the Cloud!

All kidding aside, I'm wondering whether a single location is feasible. For those times when a sunrise (or sunset) shot is preferred, perhaps a single location would work, but then again at your relatively high latitude the direction of the sunrise & sunset shifts dramatically with the seasons.
Rather than one location, I'd pick specific locations for sunrise, sunset and mid-day. for mid-day shots, consider using a fisheye and capturing almost all (or all) of the sky in one go. For some shots, picking a location is simply not going to work (in particular for storm clouds, which can be some of the most beautiful formations).

JokersSoul

Canon EOS-50D

Tamron AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical for Canon

11/08/2010 11:38:33 AM · #4

I take a lot of pictures of clouds (don't have any in my gallery... just haven't posted any). I am just playing around with them and I am not sure they are the greatest. I just love playing with them in photoshop.

I think that I just get lucky with the timing...however, there are a lot of times that I look out my window and see a gorgeous sunset and don't have time to get my camera, get in the car, and get the shot. So I shoot a lot of "over the top of my neighbors house" type shots.

I am glad you posted this as I would like to see other's opinions on it.

11/08/2010 12:22:54 PM · #5

I wanted to shoot from the top of my roof, but it's very difficult to get to the very top and there are still large trees in the way in the sunset direction at least.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

11/08/2010 12:57:51 PM · #6

Shooting from one location for all of the different formations that you want would probably take a long time, which is not a big deal, since is is going to be from your home.
Time may be better spent by getting the clouds as you find them, from several locations. I keep a mental map of the areas where I travel often, noting locations which have good views, and in what direction, so that I can be at one of them fairly quickly any time I see something impressive going on in the sky.
Has DPC ever had a "Clouds" challenge? It may make a good side challenge topic too. Clouds or lack of them can be an important element in most outdoor shots that show any sky above the horizon at all.

11/08/2010 01:33:35 PM · #7

We used to have a B/W cloud catalog in the architectural photography biz. We combined clouds with buildings by masking in the darkroom. Clouds were cataloged in various ways, including (and this is important) the focal length used for the capture. Even if you have the light angle correct, mismatched focal lengths are a dead giveaway. So it's a pretty complex process to match clouds to landscapes...

R.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

11/08/2010 01:38:33 PM · #8

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Yes. Quite true and one thing I noticed right away. The eye is very good at judging the size clouds ought to be. I did find a location in a field to the north of the house that gets me a fairly unobstructed view in the north, east, and south directions. Of course west is important for sunset stuff. I'll have to keep hunting for that. There are lots of phone lines in the way, but with content away cloning, that should be easy to deal with to make some nice pristine cloud backgrounds.

I went out for some test shots and shot pictures at 24,35,50,70, and 105 mm in each direction. That should help.

I think close is important because too often I look out the window and say, "geez, look at that sky!" It would be gone by the time I could drive anywhere.

Message edited by author 2010-11-08 13:39:55.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

11/08/2010 01:54:04 PM · #9

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

...but with content away cloning...

Sounds like a stain remover! ;-)

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I went out for some test shots and shot pictures at 24,35,50,70, and 105 mm in each direction. That should help.

I think close is important because too often I look out the window and say, "geez, look at that sky!" It would be gone by the time I could drive anywhere.

Oh, heck yes! Sometimes even before you can get the camera set up. Saturday morning I was headed S. at sunrise near the Lake Michigan shore and we had a fabulous sunrise, with a thin partial overcast layer bottom-illuminated by very red light from a sun that was still below the horizon. A beautiful sun pillar rose from the water from where the sunrise would take place a few minutes later. The whole display lasted no more than 5 minutes.
ETA:
Some years ago (March, 2005), Steve Davidson and I were shooting a Saguaro Nat'l. Park hoping ot catch a good sunrise, and is sure looked like we were going to get skunked. But without warning, the sun broke through for a scant couple minutes and produced a wondrous sunrise... then it was gone. Our window of opportunity lasted no more than three or four minutes. The result was this shot

Message edited by author 2010-11-08 14:46:12.

11/08/2010 02:09:34 PM · #10

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I think close is important because too often I look out the window and say, "geez, look at that sky!" It would be gone by the time I could drive anywhere.

No kidding. That's the beauty of my own location: I sit at this table looking out the window in the direction of the afternoon/setting sun, and if the sky gets interesting I can be at my beach in just a few minutes; it's only half a mile away. My "sunset" marsh, the one with the skiff, is 5 mins away with no traffic.

R.

Tamron AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical for Canon

11/08/2010 02:18:41 PM · #11

Well, here's a first attempt and just goofing around. In the original you can see the sun is behind and to the left. One of my cloud shots from today had the sun behind and to the right, so I flipped it and used it. Both were at 24mm. It took me about 20 minutes which is pretty short considering I'm a novice. The content aware fill and refine edges commands are incredible timesavers in CS5. I will have to learn the refine edge a little better because it seems to take some opacity away from solid objects which I have to go back and fix.

Original:

Cloud shot:

Composite:

I'm probably getting away with a ton since it's only 800 pixels, but I like what I see. :)

JokersSoul

Canon EOS-50D

11/08/2010 02:22:17 PM · #12

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

This looks pretty realistic. If I didn't know that you had put the clouds in, I don't think I could tell. Good job!

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/08/2010 02:27:08 PM · #13

I love to shoot clouds but hadn't thought to catalog them for "future use" -- some very good tips in this thread! I'm usually stuck in an urban environment, with lots of obstructions, but I take lots of pictures anyway. :-(

11/08/2010 02:29:09 PM · #14

Originally posted by JokersSoul:

This looks pretty realistic. If I didn't know that you had put the clouds in, I don't think I could tell. Good job!

Thanks! I hope to get even better over time. One of the early lessons I think I've learned already is not to get greedy. I couldn't put Paul's awesome sunset back there.

Paul, those shots are gold. If you use CS5 you could get rid of all those obstructions in 90 seconds.

I think I may start a catalog. I will probably divide it by mm and then maybe subdivide it by direction.

Message edited by author 2010-11-08 14:30:05.

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS

11/08/2010 02:35:24 PM · #15

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by JokersSoul:
This looks pretty realistic. If I didn't know that you had put the clouds in, I don't think I could tell. Good job!

Thanks! I hope to get even better over time. One of the early lessons I think I've learned already is not to get greedy. I couldn't put Paul's awesome sunset back there.

Paul, those shots are gold. If you use CS5 you could get rid of all those obstructions in 90 seconds.

I think I may start a catalog. I will probably divide it by mm and then maybe subdivide it by direction.

And by cloud type; don't forget that. What you need is keywords. So you can type in sun direction, sun elevation, lens mm, and type of formation, and generate a list of hits. That's how I'd approach it anyway.

Regarding the Autzen skyswap, it's a very good job EXCEPT there's noticeable haloing around the light standards and the roofline...

R.

docpjv

Fujifilm X-E1

11/08/2010 02:36:37 PM · #16

Katrin Eismann suggested in one of her, always exceptional, books that one should carry a point and shoot wherever they go. She make collections of everything to be use as layer, whateva. She also stated the importance of have lots of clouds, lots of overlay material .
I have started that and you will be amazed how quickly you start seeing potential and not necessarily see photos.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

11/08/2010 02:44:41 PM · #17

Keywording! That's the ticket. I don't utilize that as much as I should.

aliqui

Nikon D300s

11/08/2010 03:27:41 PM · #18

I know you said that by the time you drive somewhere the clouds could be gone, but have you been up to Skinner Butte? It's the closest location I've found to get up high in town.

Be forewarned however, it may not be best to bring the kids. The last two times I was up there the local youth were up to no good. Once was a truck of kids toking on their bong in plain view, and the last time I unknowingly parked next to two youngins having sex. The windows were tinted very dark, but when I got on the sidewalk and had to walk past the front of their car... hello! It's nice views from up there, just don't look in any cars!

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

11/08/2010 03:28:54 PM · #19

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Keywording! That's the ticket. I don't utilize that as much as I should.

Pleased to be of service.

You really only need a single cloud folder, if you do the keywording right. What *I'D* do is have a "Clouds" folder with a "Clouds Edited" and a "Catalogued Clouds" subfolder. I'd dump all my clouds in the one, as I take 'em, keep the originals there, save-as when I edit, and physically move them from "edited" to "catalogued" when I complete the keywording. So everything in the "edited" folder would be awaiting keywording, and would be something worth saving. Keywording is something you want to tackle in batches, usually, so you get in the flow of it.

R.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

11/08/2010 04:30:40 PM · #20

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Keywording! That's the ticket. I don't utilize that as much as I should.

Boy a big +1 on that, LOL. The real funny part is that I'm a keywording maniac at work, but at home I'm a slacker... and I actually have more images to keyword at work!

My suggested workflow is a bit different than Robert's... I import and store original RAW images by date, in folders by year, and then in subfolder by month/day within the year folders. My exports go in folders by project. Images are keyworded as required, so I can find pretty much anything in seconds if I know what it pertained to. Now, that applies to my work images with a great deal of rigor, but just ask me try to find all the photos of my son, for instance, and watch me grimace!

Message edited by author 2010-11-08 16:30:56.

MelonMusketeer

Nikon D7000

Nikon MF 50mm f/1.4

11/08/2010 10:08:27 PM · #21

With iPhoto, and probably with Aperture, any comments in the description box become keywords, and you can search the entire library that way. It helps a lot because you can batch general keywords then add specific ones to individual photos, like names of people in them for instance.
I like what you are working toward by getting the cloud catalogue in your files for future use.
The sky here in Florida is one of the best parts of the landscape since we don't have mountains to break up the horizon, and water on both sides of the state reflects sunlight up under the clouds at sunrise and sunset.