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02/27/2004 04:46:33 PM · #301 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by Mousie:
In any case I'll probably go the route of my brother. He's marrying his girlfriend in May, in an outdoor, somewhat traditional wedding with both families. He's having one of his close friends (who is not a church official) perform the ceremony. You couldn't imagine a more 'classically' red-blooded American couple, and they're circumventing the church entirely, even though they're heterosexual! They have debated more fervently over when the X-mas tree goes up and comes down than how they want to express their commitment to each other!
- Mousie |
Everything else aside, why do they celebrate Christmas? From your post I got that they don't believe in the Church would it be right to assume they don't believe in religion or Christ either? Just curious. Christmas to me is very sacred, even though it's mostly commercial for most people. |
No, many people are quite spiritual and religious while never setting foot in a church. I don't think you can assume anything about their faith or spirituality on the basis that they do not want to be married in a church. What you can assume is that they don't want a church wedding.
And on the point of Christmas.. for many people (myself included) christmas is not a commercial event, but a family oriented one where I get to see and spend time with all of my family because we all have the same days off and have time to gather to celebrate our kinship. :)
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02/27/2004 04:52:29 PM · #302 |
Originally posted by frisca:
No, many people are quite spiritual and religious while never setting foot in a church. I don't think you can assume anything about their faith or spirituality on the basis that they do not want to be married in a church. What you can assume is that they don't want a church wedding.
And on the point of Christmas.. for many people (myself included) christmas is not a commercial event, but a family oriented one where I get to see and spend time with all of my family because we all have the same days off and have time to gather to celebrate our kinship. :) |
I asked Mousie about his family hoping he'd give a few more details just out of curiousity, so that I wouldn't make any false assumptions. Hence, the post. To me Christmas is spiritual, to you it's about bonding, but *I* know more people than not who think it's just a commercial event.
P.S."many people are quite spiritual and religious while never setting foot in a church." I attend no church and am quite aware of what spirituality and religion truly are.
P.P.S. and if Mousie interpretated my message the way you did, then I understand if he doesn't post a reply, or atleast not a NICE one! lol
Edited: for horrific grammar.
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 17:03:24. |
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02/27/2004 05:32:47 PM · #303 |
Originally posted by sonnyh:
More misinformation, what was written in the Old testament was not applicable in the New testament, such as the pigskin. And just like today's crusades, historical crusades were unfortunately fought int he Name of Christ for the sole purpose to enhance and procure personal desires. It is and still is wrong, no one is disputing that and most people aren't blind to that fact.
Since you think the Old testament has nothing to do with the New Testament I assume you are anti-semetic also. You have a great record GoldBerry. |
And the judgments just keep rolling in, I think someone just blasted me in another thread for using the word 'assume' but here no one seemed to mind, I'm fairly certain it's because your post was directed towards me, and well you know my 'track record' as an unabashedly homophobic and intolerant wench, right Sonnyh? I should've said "many things written in the old testament were obolished in the new testament". Would that have curbed your distaste? |
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02/27/2004 06:10:04 PM · #304 |
Originally posted by GoldBerry:
Originally posted by Mousie:
In any case I'll probably go the route of my brother. He's marrying his girlfriend in May, in an outdoor, somewhat traditional wedding with both families. He's having one of his close friends (who is not a church official) perform the ceremony. You couldn't imagine a more 'classically' red-blooded American couple, and they're circumventing the church entirely, even though they're heterosexual! They have debated more fervently over when the X-mas tree goes up and comes down than how they want to express their commitment to each other!
- Mousie |
Everything else aside, why do they celebrate/acknowledge Christmas? From your post I got that they don't believe in the Church would it be right to assume they don't believe in religion or Christ either? Just curious. Christmas to me is very sacred, even though it's mostly commercial for most people.
Edit: inserted "acknowledge" |
First off, I said X-mas, the secular gift-giving holidy, not Christmas, the celebration of Jesus's birthday! Atheists celebrate X-mas, and I know LOTS of Jews that celebrate X-mas *and* Chanukkah! :) I use X-mas precicely to make that distinction, though I feel the two are fairly interchangable these days, with our current commercialization. It's an American holiday, and a global holiday. Even the Japanese celebrate Christmas in bizarre ways you might find hard to imagine, and typically without any reference to the birth of Christ, unless of course they are Christians themselves!
'Christmas' was a holiday long before it became associated with the birth of Christ, where do you think Christmas trees, Santa, yule logs, and the rest come from? Heathens, of course, celebrating much older holidays that became wrapped up in the Christian calendar as Christianity spread across the globe and incorporated local cultures.
But to directly respond to your question: We celebrate Christmas because we were raised in a home that celbrates Christmas. It's part of my culture, and that of my brother's. Christmas for us is a time to celebrate with family and friends, inviting them over to share food, company, gifts, and our appreciation that we have each other. It's also a day for children, to make them feel special and let them have fun performing their Christmas duties. Besides, winter would have been *so* boring in Vermont without a little celebration to brighten up the cold and dark wintry months.
I celebrate Christmas because we have always celebrated Christmas.
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 18:11:53. |
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02/27/2004 06:22:11 PM · #305 |
frisca is my legal hero.
i don't want to get married in a church. i don't want to cross a church. i don't want to set foot in a church. as i have stated in so many previous posts, i want the church to not interfere with my life or my governmental rights.
and i celebrate christmas, or x-mas, or super-mega-commercial-holiday-day because it's FUN and it has always always meant a lot to me without a religious context. the fact that it happens to BE a religious holiday shouldn't allow non-religious people to participate. another perfect example of what we're discussing here: my celebration of christmas does NOT in ANY way detract from your celebration of it!!
i eat candy on easter too. |
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02/27/2004 06:30:49 PM · #306 |
Little Light interlude...
Frank Costanza:
HAPPY FESTIVUS, EVERYONE! "A Festivus, For the Rest of Us!"
One of the best Jerry Seinfeld episodes. |
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02/27/2004 06:39:39 PM · #307 |
Originally posted by justine:
Little Light interlude... |
Heheheh. You're the best, Justine. :-) |
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02/27/2004 07:14:47 PM · #308 |
hey mousie!
i made ya a present for your signature line:
oh, i hope this thread never dies. i'm having so much fun.
*edited to correct link
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 19:15:58. |
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02/27/2004 07:47:43 PM · #309 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
hey mousie!
i made ya a present for your signature line:
oh, i hope this thread never dies. i'm having so much fun.
*edited to correct link |
Hehe!
Please don't tell me that's a pearl necklace!
- Mousie |
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02/27/2004 08:00:09 PM · #310 |
Originally posted by justine:
Little Light interlude...
Frank Costanza:
HAPPY FESTIVUS, EVERYONE! "A Festivus, For the Rest of Us!"
One of the best Jerry Seinfeld episodes. |
When do we perform the 'Feats of Strength'? |
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02/27/2004 08:03:47 PM · #311 |
| it's a disco ball, silly! |
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02/27/2004 08:18:08 PM · #312 |
Honestly, what's the big deal about Christian Photographers? Why do folks find it so necessary to mock people who haven't even contributed to this thread?
Oops, had to go back and fact-check myself, and yes, there was that one beligerent post by Karmat a while back. Never mind. Mock away.
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 20:23:29. |
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02/27/2004 08:27:56 PM · #313 |
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02/27/2004 08:59:33 PM · #314 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
it's a disco ball, silly! |
Oh, uh... yes. I knew that. Nevermind. ;) |
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02/27/2004 09:05:40 PM · #315 |
heres one for ya mousie. a lil more flamboyant ;)
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02/27/2004 09:13:44 PM · #316 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
heres one for ya mousie. a lil more flamboyant ;)
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If you knew me better, you'd know that flamboyant is not my style. I'm way too nerdy and reclusive, and *man* does a lisp grate on me. ;)
Though my BF does tell me that my wrists are too limp...
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 21:21:43. |
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02/27/2004 09:35:27 PM · #317 |
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02/27/2004 09:50:19 PM · #318 |
Well, thanks everyone for contributing to the thread.
It looks like the overall question that i posed to the group as been answered:
The big deal about gay marriage to the present company is not, economic, civil rights or social reasons; it's about the religious majority attempting to decide the rights of a minority, and the resistants of those who sympathize with that minority. Is Separate but equal making a comeback?
True?
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 21:53:35.
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02/27/2004 09:52:17 PM · #319 |
i would say thats pretty acurate.
but then again, i think a catastrophic disaster one day will save the human race.. go figure..
Message edited by author 2004-02-27 22:01:41. |
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02/27/2004 10:36:33 PM · #320 |
pearl necklace. ha ha. ok, long week. sorry.
i apologize if my joke was 'mocking.' i have nothing but respect for everyone's opinion in most matters. i just find it funny that some people can be so "in yo' face" about certain aspects of their lives (i.e. christianity), and others are expected to keep their lives under wraps.
i am the least "in yo' face" person i know -- about anything! i have nary a bumper sticker or flag, no posters, propaganda, or even magazines more offensive than 'entertainment weekly.' it's just incredibly difficult for me to be this serious about anything for this long, so i was trying to have a little fun.
geocide, i was wondering if you were going to poke your head back in here or not. good for you for starting this.
as for your summary, i'd say it's pretty spot-on. as for who is spearheading the resistance to change, i don't want to put all of the blame on religion. i would say, and i'm paraphrasing frisca here, that it's really just folks who are resistant to change. if there happens to be a lot of overlap with religious groups, so be it.
i'm not anti-religion. lots of people need it in their lives. i don't need it, however, so what i am against is people who attempt to impress their beliefs upon me and my life. i'd be the same way even if i were straight.
i've made a lot of friends in this thread. i'm sure i've made a lot of enemies too. my personal feelings about this site aside, i think this has, for the most part, been a very constructive conversation and i'm thrilled to be a part of it. |
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03/08/2004 08:06:29 AM · #321 |
I found this information sooo amusing.
Dr. Laura Schlesinger the US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Law and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? -Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
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03/08/2004 08:30:16 AM · #322 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
I found this information sooo amusing.
Dr. Laura Schlesinger the US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show recently said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet.
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. ... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Law and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? -Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. |
This is simply too funny! Thanks for sharing the laughter, it is a great way to start the work week. Dr. Laura indeed...she is such a buffoon!
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03/08/2004 08:32:27 AM · #323 |
| I was thinking of that list, too. I read it a couple of years ago but wasn't sure where I could find it now. Thanks, Mag. |
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03/08/2004 10:48:39 AM · #324 |
| Hah, nice one mag, i too have read this a long time ago... it's nice to get a chuckle while slaving at work on misc. boring stuff :) |
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03/08/2004 11:06:25 AM · #325 |
i am christian and as all of you know our religion doesn't usually condone same sex marriage. But I don' t agree with government stepping in to tell them that. When the government starts limiting certain human acts, it makes me a little nervous that it will start extending to myself and my own rights. I would prefer that we stick to biblical terms and since I feel I was married with God's blessing it should be called "marriage." I feel if you are to get married outside of God, gay or not--the union is civil.
Message edited by author 2004-03-08 11:30:10. |
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