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 05/01/2010 04:03:43 PM · #26
Originally posted by smardaz:
I recently sent a pm to one of the more prominent ribbon winners on this site asking honestly about their thoughts on why they scored me as they did. I felt I was quite humble in the message and even said the reason I was asking is that I have alot of repsect for their work, stated i was NOT mad, only curious.The reply? I got BLASTED as if I was wasting the time of such a talented individual. I still love the work of this person but I certainly view them in a different light now and will never initiate messages to them again.
I always felt the best feature if this site is learning from some very talented people who were willing to teach. When the OP makes comments like this it SOUNDS (not saying it is) but SOUNDS very elitest and discourages this learning process. What good is talent if you don't use it to sometimes teach those around you with the same passion?


This was the reason I stopped commenting and Critique Club comments. I still leave the odd comment, but won't commit to full time commenting anymore. I can do without fragile egos and thin skins. I like comments, even when they completely miss the point or note my processing procedure, even when I haven't done any:)
 05/01/2010 04:34:01 PM · #27
Originally posted by smardaz:
I recently sent a pm to one of the more prominent ribbon winners on this site asking honestly about their thoughts on why they scored me as they did. I felt I was quite humble in the message and even said the reason I was asking is that I have alot of repsect for their work, stated i was NOT mad, only curious.The reply? I got BLASTED as if I was wasting the time of such a talented individual. I still love the work of this person but I certainly view them in a different light now and will never initiate messages to them again.
I always felt the best feature if this site is learning from some very talented people who were willing to teach. When the OP makes comments like this it SOUNDS (not saying it is) but SOUNDS very elitest and discourages this learning process. What good is talent if you don't use it to sometimes teach those around you with the same passion?


Don't let one person ruin it for you. Their reaction to your PM is not what I think is typical of this community.

This is a case in which the saying "One bad apple ruins the whole lot" doesn't apply.
 05/01/2010 04:39:23 PM · #28
Originally posted by smardaz:
I recently sent a pm to one of the more prominent ribbon winners on this site asking honestly about their thoughts on why they scored me as they did. I felt I was quite humble in the message and even said the reason I was asking is that I have alot of repsect for their work, stated i was NOT mad, only curious.The reply? I got BLASTED as if I was wasting the time of such a talented individual. I still love the work of this person but I certainly view them in a different light now and will never initiate messages to them again.
I always felt the best feature if this site is learning from some very talented people who were willing to teach. When the OP makes comments like this it SOUNDS (not saying it is) but SOUNDS very elitest and discourages this learning process. What good is talent if you don't use it to sometimes teach those around you with the same passion?


And then you associate with the few like Robert ( Bear_Music) who has probably forgot more about photography, than most will ever know, and more than willing to help, step by step, anyone, no mater the skill level.
 05/01/2010 05:01:50 PM · #29
Originally posted by alans_world:


And then you associate with the few like Robert ( Bear_Music) who has probably forgot more about photography, than most will ever know, and more than willing to help, step by step, anyone, no mater the skill level.


...Surely you aren't suggesting that Bear_Music is experiencing memory lapses:O)

Ray
 05/01/2010 05:50:25 PM · #30
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
For the record, I'm not going to actually stop commenting, I'm not THAT fragile, but I wanted to make my own point.

Which is, essentially, get over yourself :D


It is not my ego that is the problem. The first half of my OP is referring to casual conversation and not just commentors on this site. I have no problem taking criticism. IN fact I encourage it! It is how I learn. My point was missed completely.

I said that if your are going to comment on specifics to a pic, then be consistent with all pics with the same "faults", or sorry, "characteristics"

I once commented on a fellow DPC'ers photo that the skin on her body was not processed the same as the skin on her face. I was quickly corrected and apologized for the err as I had not seen the original therefore didn't know otherwise. I have since stopped commenting on skin post processing.

Don't comment on blown hilites in one pic and rave about another one that is mostly blown out!(by their own definition)

I have not mentioned any names in this post, nor will I. So if one of you get defensive then just check to see if you are one of those people I am talking about.

Believe me when I say that I do this for fun. My life consists of plenty of other fulfillments outside of this place. Silly ribbons and scores here, will not determine my photography aspirations.

ETA I am participating in the DPL. My team consists of members that are all good at what they do. We have had open discussions and suggestions to each entry from each teammate. If my EGO was the problem I would ignore their suggestions and go it alone. Such is not the case. I have heeded recommendations because I am here to learn and have fun with the competition of it all. EGO is not the issue here. Far from it! A few virtual ribbons does not make a great photographer. There is plenty of improvement needed. That is why I am doing DPL.

I never once thought that I was better than any one else here. Don't care!

Message edited by author 2010-05-01 18:17:43.
 05/01/2010 09:06:10 PM · #31
as soon as you put you art up in a competition you have asked for it to be critiqued. You don't have to agree with people's comments but you put your image out there for them to comment on. Get over it. Take what is useful to you and disregard the rest. If you don't want to hear these comments, don't enter competitions, be it on here or any where. If an image has great personal meaning to you I sugest you don't enter it in competition. If you really feel the world needs to see it, have an expo.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I get annoyed when people ask for comments then complain about the comments they recieve.

Message edited by author 2010-05-01 21:07:44.
 05/01/2010 09:18:00 PM · #32
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by alans_world:


And then you associate with the few like Robert ( Bear_Music) who has probably forgot more about photography, than most will ever know, and more than willing to help, step by step, anyone, no mater the skill level.


...Surely you aren't suggesting that Bear_Music is experiencing memory lapses:O)

Ray


aCTUALLY, i AM... Like, I forget to take the caps lock off, for example... And even after all these years sometimes leave the EV setting in a strange place and find out too late. Which is why manual is better. But I digress. Which I suppose is the problem, come to think of it :-)

R.
 05/01/2010 09:21:57 PM · #33
Originally posted by Penny Lane:
as soon as you put you art up in a competition you have asked for it to be critiqued. You don't have to agree with people's comments but you put your image out there for them to comment on. Get over it. Take what is useful to you and disregard the rest. If you don't want to hear these comments, don't enter competitions, be it on here or any where. If an image has great personal meaning to you I sugest you don't enter it in competition. If you really feel the world needs to see it, have an expo.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I get annoyed when people ask for comments then complain about the comments they recieve.


Read my last post. I didn't ask for comments. I also said that I encourage critique.
I have said it before in this thread...be consistent on your critiques.

I didn't say I didn't want comments or critiques!!!

Got it?
 05/01/2010 09:24:02 PM · #34
Originally posted by LVicari:
... I have made comments myself on some of these issues and I now realize how assinine it is...

We all labour to climb out of the same valley of blindness. So try not to be too harsh to the folks behind you. ;-)
 05/01/2010 09:24:34 PM · #35
Originally posted by LVicari:
Originally posted by Penny Lane:
Sorry if this sounds harsh but I get annoyed when people ask for comments then complain about the comments they recieve.


Read my last post. I didn't ask for comments. I also said that I encourage critique.
I have said it before in this thread...be consistent on your critiques.

I didn't say I didn't want comments or critiques!!!

Got it?


I'm not sure she was referring to you, Leo... Seems more like a general observation to me.

R.
 05/01/2010 09:29:22 PM · #36
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by LVicari:
Originally posted by Penny Lane:
Sorry if this sounds harsh but I get annoyed when people ask for comments then complain about the comments they recieve.


Read my last post. I didn't ask for comments. I also said that I encourage critique.
I have said it before in this thread...be consistent on your critiques.

I didn't say I didn't want comments or critiques!!!

Got it?


I'm not sure she was referring to you, Leo... Seems more like a general observation to me.

R.


As were my ego posts.

The "Get over yourself" was tongue in cheek.
 05/01/2010 09:32:17 PM · #37
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by LVicari:
Originally posted by Penny Lane:
Sorry if this sounds harsh but I get annoyed when people ask for comments then complain about the comments they recieve.


Read my last post. I didn't ask for comments. I also said that I encourage critique.
I have said it before in this thread...be consistent on your critiques.

I didn't say I didn't want comments or critiques!!!

Got it?


I'm not sure she was referring to you, Leo... Seems more like a general observation to me.

R.


As were my ego posts.

The "Get over yourself" was tongue in cheek.


I think others mentioned I should get over myself as well.

I actually look forward to seeing your comments. They have both positives and negatives with reason.


Message edited by author 2010-05-01 21:33:07.
 05/01/2010 09:35:52 PM · #38
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by LVicari:
Originally posted by Penny Lane:
Sorry if this sounds harsh but I get annoyed when people ask for comments then complain about the comments they recieve.


Read my last post. I didn't ask for comments. I also said that I encourage critique.
I have said it before in this thread...be consistent on your critiques.

I didn't say I didn't want comments or critiques!!!

Got it?


I'm not sure she was referring to you, Leo... Seems more like a general observation to me.

R.


Actually your last post wasn't there when I wrote this, we must have been writing at the same time.
It is actually something a judge at our camera club said to us recently. Her exact words were, "Your art/photography is not up for judgement until....." The until is until you put it up for judgement, until you put in competition or ask for comments.
The main point I wanted to get across though is take what is useful to you and disregard the rest. There is no point getting tied up in knots over comments you disagree with. Art is an expresion of self, no-one can say you have expressed yourself wrong. They can talk about their own preferneces and responces to your images though.
 05/01/2010 09:54:54 PM · #39
Originally posted by LVicari:


I said that if your are going to comment on specifics to a pic, then be consistent with all pics with the same "faults", or sorry, "characteristics"

I once commented on a fellow DPC'ers photo that the skin on her body was not processed the same as the skin on her face. I was quickly corrected and apologized for the err as I had not seen the original therefore didn't know otherwise. I have since stopped commenting on skin post processing.

Don't comment on blown hilites in one pic and rave about another one that is mostly blown out!(by their own definition)



This is the thing I have problems with. Sometimes blown highlights work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes over-processing works incredibly well, sometimes it doesn't. To like it in one photo and not in another is not inconsistent--it's a matter of taste.
05/02/2010 01:13:35 AM · #40
Originally posted by vawendy:

This is the thing I have problems with. Sometimes blown highlights work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes over-processing works incredibly well, sometimes it doesn't. To like it in one photo and not in another is not inconsistent--it's a matter of taste.


BAM! I was just about to write the same thing almost word for word. Is it not at all out of the realm of reason for something to work in one shot but not another
 05/02/2010 01:20:06 AM · #41
Leo is right. I have felt the same. I tend to do this:

Based on the comment, I try to judge the photo (trying to look at it through his eyes). If he has any valid point, then yes. I will mark the comment helpful. If not, NO.

I am not standing by Leo's point for commenters not being consistent in their comments. For one photo, he may prefer natural lighting better than flash and for a different type of photo, a strobe. For that matter, even the lighting conditions would seem to be different for the same subject based on actual setup.
 05/02/2010 01:34:42 AM · #42
Ok... I think I can summarize the point of this thread...

...

05/02/2010 02:07:31 AM · #43
Well, this is a massive big photo site with a broad range of voters (from people without camera to seasoned pros) with all the consequent advantages and disadvantages. As a bottom line, I think, if you achieve a couple ribbons here, you should consider yourself a fine and fully competent photographer. However, because of the above mentioned reasons, a winning photo usually must be "immaculate" in technical terms and fit to the 'main stream' in overall values. Otherwise the artist's freedom for 'rule-breaking' will be and is very easily misinterpreted by a fraction of voters as technical glitches (many times by newbie amateurs). If I go for an artistic or not that conventional shot, I look for the positive and enthusiastic comments or picks for favorites, because that tells if your image is highly recognized by others, and disregard useless inevitable negative comments. When I try to improve my techniques and my score average and submit a more 'conventional' shot, I care about all comments because it is also part of the challenge to know the ways how to create an image that most of this diverse voter population likes.
For a person with many ribbons on his belt (for a master in brief) it is probably more frustrating to deal with these issues than for those still on the learning track... well, this is not completely true (my wife can hear me cursing a lot in front of the computer:)). Anyway, this is how I try to put my mindset on this.

Message edited by author 2010-05-02 02:09:31.
 05/02/2010 04:03:37 AM · #44
Originally posted by LVicari:

I think others mentioned I should get over myself as well.



One of those would be mine mate.. I was not hitting you with my handbag but dude, come on man, how long you been here? you must be getting used to all the crap by now man, just let it roll off your back or you will go insane like me.
 05/02/2010 05:21:33 AM · #45
I guess I'm pretty lucky. It's occurred to me that first and foremost, you *must* be happy with your entry. If you are, then the comments don't become sore points if they're not what you would expect. And therein lies another issue. You cannot put expectations on the comments you may get simply because the viewers are so diverse. That is never more apparent than with plug-ins. There will always be that certain segment that hate HDR, Topz/Lucasarts/Photomatix/NikEffex, Nudes, Kid Pix, dogs & cats, auroras, water drops.......or whatever it is that YOU entered. I've gotten more critical comments on my B&W Landscape than on any other image I can recall in the near past, yet the thing also has five favorites. Do the comments bug me? Nope. I was perfectly content with the image when I submitted it, and the critical comments are therefore representative of different perspectives, not anything wrong with my image. The one comment that does address a specific flaw talks about a flaw in the subject in relation to removing a distracting element. I understand the comment, but sometime life, Mother Nature, or circumstances dictate that you don't get the perfect subject, and this image had to carry itself past the distracting element. At 6.6 and five faves, I think it does. Besides......."distracting element" comments are usually an indicator of the commentor's level of OCD rather than any real issues with images it seems to me. If you get six of them on one image out of nine comments, yeah, maybe you ought to look at your composition, but the one or two usually are a result of nitpicking.

What it all boils down to for me is a way to gauge how well I've resonated with the viewer. I pretty much don't get exasperated with any comment any more.....(Although I did PM one commenter not too long ago and suggest that he/she read the challenge description since their comment was completely off the reservation! LOL!!! It was removed shortly thereafter.).....the comments are your barometer, make of them what you will.

I really don't complain about getting, or not getting, comments simply because I don't believe that you should cajole comments from people......they won't be honest if they're browbeaten into them, and if you abuse people for commenting, they'll stop. That just seems so patently obvious to me. Make an image that moves people, good or bad, and you'll get comments. Check 'em off as helpful and learn what it was about your image that provoked the comment. Sometimes that means that you go to the commenter's profile to see where it comes from. But never discount that critical comment that you, the professional, gets from someone that's been here two months or so and "Doesn't know squat". Something about your image didn't reach him, and when you chalk it up to that person not knowing what he's looking at, remember most of the world out there knows less than a voter here after two months.
 05/02/2010 05:30:31 AM · #46
Originally posted by MAK:
Art is opinionated

and MAK is whack. ...IMO.

And why is Jeb's post not double line spaced??
 05/02/2010 05:51:12 AM · #47
n/m

Message edited by author 2010-05-02 07:17:03.
 05/02/2010 07:07:25 AM · #48
Again.. it is not the comment or criticism itself!!!

Yes I have been here long enough to know that I will get viewers disliking something I have done.Truly I don't care about that!

Read OP!!

My rant really was originally about people reciting photography "rules" and the same rhetoric I hear over and over.(not just from the peeps here on DPC) It somehow progressed to comments on this site. My Bad!

I said before I wouldn't post anything like this again. Yet here I am. I definitely should know better!

You guys continue..

Message edited by author 2010-05-02 07:18:12.
 05/02/2010 08:55:26 AM · #49
Originally posted by LVicari:


You guys continue..


Yep, putting the genie back in the bottle sure is a bitch ain't it? :O)

Ray
 05/02/2010 10:03:26 AM · #50
It is when there is no resolve. Not sure I even want reslove. Just made a point on how I felt about the same shit I hear repeatedly and inconsistencies. Just wanted to see if someone felt the same.

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