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02/21/2004 08:02:58 PM · #1 |
I am about ready to move up to a real SLR and I can get a used D100 on ebay for around $1000 which is about the same price as the D70 is supposed to come out at.
Two questions for you D100 owners:
1. When do you think the D70 will actually be available?
2. For the same money would you rather have a used D100 or a new D70?
Any advice you could give would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Roger
Message edited by author 2004-02-21 20:04:37. |
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02/21/2004 08:08:08 PM · #2 |
Get a 300D
Message edited by author 2004-02-21 20:08:21. |
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02/21/2004 08:10:12 PM · #3 |
Why? (and that is a serious question)
BTW you have some fantastic shots in your portfolio. 'Dog' is awesome!
Message edited by author 2004-02-21 20:13:56. |
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02/21/2004 08:15:37 PM · #4 |
| Its a great camera, already out, below $1000. Unless your a steadfast Nikon guy and already have Nikon glass, WHY NOT? |
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02/21/2004 08:18:54 PM · #5 |
Thanks Roger
I am usually way out to lunch on most challenges but its fun! I like yours too!! |
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02/21/2004 08:19:43 PM · #6 |
| Okay I know this sounds dumb, but I don't like the silver body. Also was thinking that since the D70 is a newer design, it might have better picture quality. I still haven̢۪t seen any full sized images from it so I don't know. |
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02/21/2004 08:22:58 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by rcrawford:
Why? (and that is a serious question) |
This is just my 2 cents and hope not to get stoned because I'm just trying to help here.
I will start by saying that I have no experience with the D100 or any DSLR other than the Digital Rebel so I am only going by what I have read and others can agree or disagree if they would like.
Not sure about how the out of camera pics will be for the D70 but from articles that I have read the Digital Rebel requires less post camera work to get a usable decent picture with it's default settings than the D100. Or if you are into post processing and don't want the camera to do any sharpening, saturation, etc. adjustments for you it also has a second preset that gives the same processing settings as the 10D (which usually also requires post processing work to get a final usable image). Not sure if this is important to you or not?
Not sure if any of this makes any sense but I just thought I would share some of the things I have read.
I do love the DR but I again state that I have no experience with any other DSLRs.
I would always prefer the new camera to a used camera though. You never know if a used camera has been dropped, etc. and is being sold for any other reason that will not be disclosed to you. With the new camera you will also get the full warranty. I'm sure either the D100 or D70 will be a great first DSLR. Maybe the D70 would be easier to learn with and then upgrade later?
Good luck with whatever you go with! I would still go New rather than Used though.
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02/21/2004 08:23:37 PM · #8 |
| I think you should go for the D70 then! I am happy with my 300D but you never hear anyone complain about Nikon. I owned a coolpix myself and liked it! |
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02/21/2004 08:27:44 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by rcrawford:
Okay I know this sounds dumb, but I don't like the silver body. Also was thinking that since the D70 is a newer design, it might have better picture quality. I still haven̢۪t seen any full sized images from it so I don't know. |
I actually like the silver body. Looks pretty cool with the Battery Grip too. I love my DR with the battery grip. Never take it off. I always likes the 35mm SLRs with the silver bodies too though. It's also more Pewter than Silver I think.
Either way, you are going to get a great camera because the quality that Canon and Nikon both turn out these days is spectacular. They have to be or they would get walked over by the competition and go bye-byes out of business.
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02/21/2004 09:43:18 PM · #10 |
OK... so nobody with a Nikon D100 has replied back yet... so I will!
I have had my D100 for about a year now, and absolutely love it. I continue to learn more about it's capabilities. It is very user friendly and I think takes pretty good pics (check my profile if you like).
Remember that the camera is only half the ticket to good pics, don't skimp on lens's... go for the best you can afford. I have several Sigma's and recently purchased a Nikon 80-400 AF VR - which is a super lens.
Hope this helps. |
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02/21/2004 09:49:30 PM · #11 |
The D70's feature set is much more comprehensive than the 300D's. Check DPReview's side-by-side of the D70, D100 and 300D
Nikon D70 Preview at DPReview
1/8000th shutter speed, 3fps for 12 frames, 1/500th flash x-sync, exposure compensation +- 5 stops, 1.5x crop instead of 1.6x, among other things. It's a serious camera and in certain ways a step up from the D100 and 10D. I'd much rather have a D70 than a 300D. |
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02/21/2004 09:50:41 PM · #12 |
Everything I've read about the D70 shows that it will be a top notch camera with some features in it that I wish my D100 had. The 1/500 flash sync is the main one. I'd like to be able to use a faster shutter speed when fill flashing outdoors or when using my studio strobes. The D100 is an amazing camera and I have nothing bad to say about it. I accept that dSLR images require post processing and think that the workflow of D100 is very good. You won't regret either camera, but if I didn't have the D100 and was in the market, I'd pre-order my D70 and hope it arrives in March as promised.
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02/21/2004 09:54:55 PM · #13 |
| I have a D100 also and love it. I do work at a camera store and got to hold and play with a D70 the other day. It is awesome!! looks alot like the D100...slightly smaller, and actually has a better metering system and shoots faster. The metering system is the same as in the F5. It also works better with the new SB800 flash...And it is cheaper. As I said before...I LOVE my D100, but am trying to figure out a way to get a D70. I really think it is a no brainer...if you are a first time DSLR person, I would go with the D70. By the way, they are due out at the end of March. We are expecting them in our store around the 26th. If you are really interested in one I would put your name on a list at your local camera store, because in the true way of Nikon I expect they will be in short supply at least in the beginning |
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02/22/2004 08:41:07 AM · #14 |
The D70 looks much more like a D100 replacement than a cut down version like the 300D. If it was a choice between a D100 and a D70 I'd get the D70.
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02/22/2004 09:45:07 AM · #15 |
About Nikon and Canon, many brand lovers will get a war about who is the better camera.
I love Nikon lenses. I know that Canon has a great line of lens, with many more options than Nikon. But Nikon has less lens, but all of that is supperb. Canon made lens in various class, I rate it´s class as: Bad and Cheap (as 15-55 that comes with 300D), General Pourpose (almost good quality) and High quality (L lenses). That is why Canon has a huge line of lenses. They cover a wide range market. If you don´t have money to buy a great lenses Canon makes a cheap lenses to you. Nikon don´t do it. Every Nikon lens are design to be the best. Are only two types with and withoud ED glass. Nikon leaves to Sigma and Tanrom to build second line lenses. A bit more expensive in some cases that a General pourpose Canon lens.
Well, you ask about camera gear. Why I reply you with lens lines? Because you don´t buy a camera body. When you go to a DSLR you get a Lens System. You will be slave of this system. You will replace your body, but a lens system can be up 100 times more expensive than a single body.
To me D70 is dream camera. It´s not a downgraded D100 is a new system. It´s very best than 300D because it gives total control to you. If you know evaluate a camera you know that manual control is better than auto. Canon 300D is a great camera to averyone that need to get great pictures (with great lens that not comming with it), and leaves the control to the camera.
Message edited by author 2004-02-22 09:47:29.
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02/22/2004 09:55:10 AM · #16 |
D70.
I'm #6 on a local list. Hope to have it before Fossil Rim.
Drake....what a wonderful Nikkor you have there. 80-400. wow.
Flash
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02/22/2004 10:20:35 AM · #17 |
I have been considering the 300D (too poor for a 10D), but after reading the specs of the D70 and comparing them to the 300D, it's obvious that the D70 is far superior. The Nikon may be just a little bit more money, but for what you get, it is worth it IMHO.
Now I know why my friend was so excited about the D70 coming out.
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02/22/2004 01:34:20 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by GoodEnd:
I love Nikon lenses. I know that Canon has a great line of lens, with many more options than Nikon. But Nikon has less lens, but all of that is supperb. Canon made lens in various class. |
Nikon also has lens "classes", so I'm not sure what you are getting it.
Are you saying that the 18-70mm lens that comes with the D70 is not a "bad and cheap" lens (as you describe the kit lens that comes with the 300D)?
Nikon also has a lot of "quality levels" and duplicates a lot of lenses. For example, canon has two 50mm lenses: The 50mm/1.8 and 50mm/1.4. Nikon has four: 1.8, 1.8D, 1.4, 1.4D. Why? Different quality. Then there's the 28-200/f3.5-5.6D and 28-200/f3.5-5.6G (again, same focal length, different quality). Or the 70-300/f4-5.6D and 70-300/f4-5.6G (again, same focal length, different quality). Seems to me like that is "various class" as you put it.
When it all comes down to it, the Canon lens line-up is superior. The lenses are typically less expensive, and there are definitely more choices. They have more Image Stabilization (IS) lenses (what Nikon calls Vibration Reduction (VR) lenses), more lenses with Ultra-sonic Motors (USM) for fast, silent focusing (what Nikon calls "silent wave motor"), and more specialty lenses, such as 3 tilt/shift lenses.
IMHO, one of the biggest things to consider is that Nikon seems set on making an APS-sized 1.5X-crop factor sensor the "standard" for all of their DSLR's. They have not announced any plans to even introduce a full-frame sensor, and continue to pump-out more and more "DX"-series lenses that only work on 1.5X-crop bodies (they have 4 DX lenses now). Canon, on the other hand, already has a full-frame DSLR, and continues to announce new lenses using new optical technology that are designed for full-frame use. Why is that important? Because as technology marches forward, and full-frame sensors become more affordable, Canon lenses will be "ready to go". If Nikon ever does jump on the full-frame bandwagon, any DX-series lenses will be useless on that body.
And don't forget that Nikon's "F" lens mount was introduced in 1959 and has had various "enhancements" done to it over the years to support various new technologies (like auto-focus, electronic aperture control, etc.). Canon dumped their old FD lens mount and started fresh with the current all-electronic EF mount in 1987, creating a lens mount with an internal diameter of 54mm (external diameter of 65mm) -- the largest clear aperture of any 35mm lens system. Although some like the fact that the "F" mount has stuck around (allowing the use of older, full-manual lenses), you end up having to try and understand compatibility issues like this and various nomenclatures that may or may not work on certain lens/body cominations because of all the "enhancements" over the years. With Canon, any EF lens works on any Canon camera with an EF mount. Simple as that.
But I agree whole-heartedly that you are buying into a lens system. People who decide on which system to buy based on the color of a current camera body or what features a current body has are very short-sighted. A new body is always "just around the corner" that will have more features than whatever is available today. Do you really think Canon will just "sit around" and not release a 300D replacement with better specs and more features? Canon has introduced 8 new digital cameras (including a new DSLR) and two new lenses in the last month.
For some interesting insight, go read this recent thread about pros who have had no regrets dumping all of their Nikon gear and switching to Canon.
"I made the switch almost a year ago after a 25 year stint with Nikon Mount cameras. Never been happier."
"I'm another old-timer that stayed with Nikons for far too long... If you want an eye-opener regarding Canon vs Nikon glass, go to 'photodo.com' and look at the number of lenses that are rated over 3.5 or even over 4. Very few Nikon lenses rate well, while Canon does quite well."
"I have used the Nikon SLR system for 30+ years, culminating with the D1. I started a Canon system with a 10D less than a year ago. In both systems, practically all my lenses are top-of-the-line. I still have all my Nikon equipment... Bottom line, right now, when I have a choice I grab Canon... Most likely, I'll be saying adios to Nikon later this year."
"I just switched a couple months ago. I did it because I waited for the D2H and then was disappointed. I liked the look of the 2 year old [Canon] 1D images more than the brand new D2H ones."
Message edited by author 2004-02-22 14:06:41. |
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02/22/2004 03:03:58 PM · #19 |
| There is a rumor that Canon will drop the price of the 300D when the Nikon D70 starts shipping at the end of March. After all, Canon has already made their fortune on it, and it's all gravy for them now. |
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02/23/2004 01:27:44 AM · #20 |
I also plan on getting a DSLR sometime around summer (May/June probably). It's mainly for professional use, as I have been getting a lot of portrait offers and really need a much wider range than the non-detachable 38-190mm F717 lens offers. However, my personal interest lies in nature photography.
I haven't had much time to do research on the various lenses avaliable from each company (Canon and Nikon) and am totally confused by some of the technical stuff:
1. Now, if I get the D70 1.5x crop factor with DX or some other F mount lenses, I will no longer be able to use those lenses if Nikon comes out with a full frame DSLR as EddyG said. On the other hand, since the 300D has a 1.6x crop factor will the EF/EF-S lenses I buy for the 300D be compatible with the full frame Canon? If not, then it's a moot point since I'll have to buy a completely new lens system upon upgrading to a full frame either way. Also, the D70 seems to have better features/specs (TTL, shutter speed, etc.) over the 300D.
2. If Nikon is pumping out more DX lenses and isn't thinking long term (full frame sensor), then why did the full frame Kodak DCS-14n choose to have a Nikon F Mount, over a Canon EF mount? Obviously Nikon already has full frame compatible lenses (AF Nikkor, D-type Manual-Focus Nikkor, AI-P Nikkor) as per the lens compatibility listing for the DCS-14n at dpreview, but will these work on the D70?
I'm more confused than ever, and still have no idea if I should go with the D70 or 300D. Maybe someone will be able to answer these questions.
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02/23/2004 03:27:12 AM · #21 |
Well I would get the D70 if it were me. Or if you want it now - the D100.
The 300D doesn't have any manual metering capabilities as far as I am aware which makes it more of a point and shoot camera.
Also as you said that cheap silver look doesn't bode too well.
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02/23/2004 08:20:11 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by lykofos:
On the other hand, since the 300D has a 1.6x crop factor will the EF/EF-S lenses I buy for the 300D be compatible with the full frame Canon? |
The $99 EF-S lens that comes with the 300D "kit" will only work on the 300D. All other Canon lenses are standard EF lenses and will work on any Canon EF body, film or digital. (Note that this "specialized" EF-S kit lens is not available for purchase separately.)
Originally posted by lykofos:
2. If Nikon is pumping out more DX lenses and isn't thinking long term (full frame sensor), then why did the full frame Kodak DCS-14n choose to have a Nikon F Mount, over a Canon EF mount? |
Nobody can answer that question but Kodak. But the fact of the matter is that even if Nikon sticks with the 1.5X crop factor and leaves "full frame" up to third-parties using Nikon-compatible lens mounts, Nikon's lens development/R&D will have to be "split" between DX-series APS-sized lenses and full-frame lenses for their film bodies. Canon, on the other hand, has a vested interest in designing standard EF lenses because they have film and digital bodies that require full-frame lenses. Canon also continues to innovate new lens technologies like Diffractive Optics that results in smaller, lighter lenses.
Obviously I have no vested interest in what lens system anybody chooses. What anyone else decides doesn't matter to me. However, I do want people to at least make an educated decision, and make that decision for valid reasons. That means having as much information available as possible, which is why I took the time to participate in this thread.
In answer to your final question, yes, any recent Nikon lens designed for Nikon's full-frame film cameras will work on the D70.
Message edited by author 2004-02-23 09:05:16. |
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02/23/2004 08:37:42 AM · #23 |
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but maybe the 300D has a few limitations over the D70 because (a) it's been out for months, and (b) it's cheaper??
If you want to compare the D70 to anything, compare it, at the very least, to a 10D. And even that is considerably older technology.
Another thing that I don't understand.. It's a fantastic bright sunny day - the 10D has ISO 100 and the D70 has ISO 200. Are you going to use ISO 200 on the 10D? Why does everyone compare ISO 200 across both cameras?
580 Canon 10D owners, 496 Canon 300D owners.. Viva la revolution. :-) |
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02/23/2004 09:13:41 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by lykofos:
2. If Nikon is pumping out more DX lenses and isn't thinking long term (full frame sensor), then why did the full frame Kodak DCS-14n choose to have a Nikon F Mount, over a Canon EF mount? |
Kodak and Nikon are partners for years. Nikon buy CCDs from Kodak. Then they buy the lens mount from it. I read recently a lot of things about Canon and Nikon. I love the way Nikon compromises real colors and photojournalism in your cameras. Almost any user of a DSLR may be a photojournalist with the resources available today. But I know that Canon has been improving your line of cameras and lens more than any other brand. They are looking to future markets and their cameras has an impressive quality. I thought Kodak has joined Nikon as Sony does with Zeis.
My real wholehearted feeling about D70 and 300D is that D70 is a better body. But a few US$500 plus and you get a real powerful camera Canon EOS 10D. I love Nikon. But if they plan to throw away my lens... I need to run of it. BTW Canon 1D and Nikon D2H I stay with 1D. Between D70 and EOS 300D I stay with D70, but if only think about body. But if a really thought about investiment, ROI and quality in one word I answer: Canon 10D. What are U$500,00 to a body comparable to a lens set?
Now if need to go to a DSLR, don´t have budget now, then starts with a good lens and a cheap body. That is the why many people here recomends EOS 300D. I tryed it a few days. It´s not bad.
*** Remember that your image is made by your lens system, only captured by your camera body. ***
Message edited by author 2004-02-23 09:27:20.
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02/24/2004 12:52:23 AM · #25 |
Thx for the info Eddy, that really helped to clear up my lens compatibility confusion. Good info from GoodEnd as well. Nikon and Kodak being partners would explain it. I heard the Kodak 14n was a disappointment anyway.
Hmm.....still deciding. I'm starting to lean towards Canon now. It does seem like their lens R&D is progressing at a much faster pace, and the future probably will be with full frame CCD/CMOS sensors. Nikon's releases seem further apart as well. The VHS/Betamax issue all over again! I also didn't realize how cheap the 10D was! If I'm going to pay $1300 for the D70 and 18-70mm DX lens, I think I'd much rather get the 10D body for $1500. |
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